Frozen Tropics: Updated Show Bar Photos

Thursday, September 22, 2005

Updated Show Bar Photos

They are obviously still in the process, but you get the idea. The vibe I get is definitely circus, without it feeling too cheesey. What do you think?

26 Comments:

Anonymous said...

It's OK, but I'm morally opposed to applying coats of paint to unpainted brick. It's an historical preservationist thing...this is why Georgetown is so lovely, many, many building are unpainted brick.

Sep 22, 2005, 11:11:00 AM

Anonymous said...

funny, that was my immediate reaction also to the first photo when I saw it. i totally support joe englert's endeavors, but i'd be for getting the historical elements historic.

Sep 22, 2005, 1:04:00 PM

Anonymous said...

It's a different dynamic on H Street. Everyone that lives over there is desperate for development so they accept a little paint on the brick.

Sep 22, 2005, 2:16:00 PM

Joe Hoya said...

It wouldn't be as bad if the building next door weren't a slightly different shade of red. In this case, the exposed brick might have been offset nicely with that yellow color, leaving most of the brick unpainted.

As for unpainted brick in Georgetown...I'd agree on the residential streets, but I'm trying to visualize Wisconsin and M Streets and I keep seeing plenty of places that have painted exteriors.

Sep 22, 2005, 3:29:00 PM

Mose said...

The real question is whether Joe is going to spring for some central A/C (note the window units).

Sep 22, 2005, 4:43:00 PM

Scenic Artisan said...

i think it looks great!

Sep 23, 2005, 4:56:00 PM

Anonymous said...

I can't imagine the margins in running these kind of joints allows for the expense of preserving the brick unpainted -- at least not yet.

Sep 23, 2005, 5:49:00 PM

Anonymous said...

It is just blankin' garishly ugly. I quess it's that hip anti yuppy look to make us fell like we are keepin' it real on H.

Sep 24, 2005, 10:20:00 AM

Rob said...

Actually after seing the Red and the Black in person yesterday it's not so bad. I'm withholding judgement on the Show Bar. The blue of the Rock & Roll hotel is ok...actually met the guy who's partnering w/ Mr. Englert on that one and told him to check out this blog. I still think the Argonaut and that black/yellow building are eyesores, though.
Stopped into R&B yesterday and also stopped into the Martini Bar, where they were busy getting ready for the grand opening. Now, *that's* a classy looking place.

Sep 25, 2005, 11:44:00 AM

Kristie said...

I think the "newness" of the paint is really what's needed on H, where everything else is dirty, run down, or rusty.

I personally love all the brick houses painted in different colors--that's one of the things I love about DC.

I probably wouldn't have picked such a green for the Argonaut, but whatever.

Finally, can anyone tell me specifically where rock-n-roll hotel is? I looked this weekend for a blue-painted building with no luck. As a vegetarian, I'm pretty excited for the middle eastern cuisine (and was very happy to see that the argonaut had added veggie burgers to their menu).

Sep 26, 2005, 5:41:00 PM

ljenglert said...

Thanks for all the interest in H St. Before anybody says anything about ugly....Please look at the before pictures.
Also, look at the buildings you see in Glover Park near the Austin Grill--all painted brick and all lovely.
I don't want to seem mean-spirited but people--look around. This is just a start. My buildings hopefully will be part of a street scape, not just 7 out of 67 forlornded buildings that have ANYTHING going on in them.
Let me give you the painful economics--A retail building on H--standard size 2200 sqf is only worth about $250-280,000. It isn't residential where values are over 50-75% higher.
Asking price is usually from $500-700,000. Just to get bank financing, it means putting down $220--420,000. Then you have to put down 20%--to get down to 80% of the value--($50-60,000). Then you have to spend at least 70-100k on basic buildout--electric, plumbing, walls. Then you must spend almost 50-70k per place for bars, furniture, etc.
So, it takes between $300-500,000 to do a place. This is why it is going to be sometime before you see businesses coming to H. Who in their right mind would come here right now? (Hey, stop pointing fingers) Rents here are only 10-12 a foot. On a 2200 foot building--A landlord can now only expect about $2000 a month. Do you see how hard it is going to be for the strip to be vibrant if somebody, hopefully me, doesn't do something dramatic to prop up values to a reasonable level?
Lastly, technology has changed. HVAC now comes ventless and returnless. Window units are now 2/12-to 3 tons with remote returns.
By the way, thank you for noticing Argonaut. It is exactly what we wanted people to do--talk about the building--and you sure do. I get 10-15 e-mails a week. When I am surrounded by antique stores, diners and shoe stores, I will sandblast the whole thing and give you a whole street corner of exposed brick. Anyway, thanks for letting me vent. Thank you so much for being interested in H St.

Sep 26, 2005, 5:54:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Hey Joe Englert I hear ya. Big applause to you for investing in H street. You are doing a great job-and I think we can handle a little red paint. Any word on other interested investments that may be coming to H street? There has to be some interest with your bars, Abdo and the upcoming street cars?

Sep 26, 2005, 9:10:00 PM

Argonaut said...

There's not enough room for 2 Georgetown's in D.C.

Actually if you're inside the Argonaut enjoying good friends, food and neighbors, you dont even notice the green.

Ms. Inked, can you stop back by again and show me how to post pics? I'll write it down this time, thanks:)

Sep 26, 2005, 9:37:00 PM

ljenglert said...

I have been called by many people. How many are serious? Hmmmmm.
One group is looking to buy a building and turn it into a tavern at 1360 H.
There are two groups who would like to do a food co-op.
You have a great disconnect between reality and asking price---that is the biggest problem. And I don't see many in the current landlord crop stepping up to spend 100k to give a tenant a usable space and then waiting 7 years to get his/her investment back.
1220 H is on the market for 700k. That means putting down $500,000 just to start construction.
The old Ohio Southern is less than 1700 sqft. Asking price? You guessed it---$700,000.
Another problem is politics. The Linden Place Association has quite a reputation as anti-business. So do a few of the local ANC commisioners. It makes the gun shy run away from H.
Here's how I think it will go on H. We will eventually open all the taverns and restaurants within the year. The strip will start slowly and then become become popular. I don't think many things will happen for a few years on the retail side.
Then, the BID and other beautification projects will finally begin to kick in. It will be more and more new residents who will make the difference. With 5000 new units coming within a mile, you will have a customer base that will eventually find their way into business.
Among these new residents will be chefs, designers, computer geeks, etc. They will open up the businesses. By that time, property owners will sober up a bit. Also, because my places will have been paying decent rents, there will be a scientific reason why property values will rise. The market for commercial spaces will make more sense. Then, you will see a big difference.
Without constant exposure in the press and without the new taverns opening, none of this can start. But I am being realistic. I don't think H will have significant retail shopping for at least 5 years. Until then, you will certainly have some great entertainment.

Sep 27, 2005, 6:20:00 AM

ljenglert said...

To pound home how tenative this all can be..... I bought 1210 H for 160,000. The note on it right now is about $115,000. Not one of the 5 banks I have loans with wants to loan me money to do the construction. Even with all my experience, they think it will be hard for a bar or restaurant to pay rent on H.
So, I sold a house on Capitol Hill that I own. Out of this profit, I am paying for a buildout of $110,000. Then, I have to purchase bars, pay carpenters, artists, etc.to make it into a restaraunt space. The only reason I will get open is because of relationships with vending companies, leasing companies and "loan sharks". It will also be my 15th time in opening a bar/restaurant space.
Why can we do the Red and the Black? We are using profits from our uptown music club DC 9 to finance the construction ($102k) and using our experience to will it through.
90% of all small business owners in DC are either Ethiopian or Korean. God Bless them and their hard work for giving us our service industry and our mom and pop stores. But when you don't see them in droves on H street as business people, it gives you pause. If they don't see opportunity here, maybe things just aren't ripe yet. Or way too expensive
Or maybe the bars and restaurants have to open up the doors to prosperity, just like it happened on U street in the 90's and south of Dupont and in Arlington and now 8th Street SE in the 2000's. I really do believe that is the case.

Sep 27, 2005, 6:54:00 AM

Anonymous said...

Joe -- your comments really put some of the posts on here in perspective. Thanks for the thoughts, and keep up the good work.

As soon as you get another bar or two open, I am going to organize an office happy hour and drive folks to your bars myself, and I encourage all Frozen Topics fans to do likewise. Maybe we should even do a Frozen Topics night and see how many people we can bring in. Let's face it, businesses on H street don't need painting advice, they need customers.

Sep 27, 2005, 3:13:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Thanks for posting your perspective. I think a lot of the plans that people have for the area are a little pie in the sky. I've noticed that I tend to do most of retail purchases either in other parts of the city or in the suburbs. Is the area going to be able to support a coop food market? I'm not sure. There was one on the Columbia Pike corridor and they closed down. The Columbia Pike corridor in Arlington is a bit more prosperous than H street and has more people likely to be into that kind of thing.

How is Phish Tea doing? I walked by on my way home from the Argonaut around 8:00 and it looked pretty empty.

Sep 27, 2005, 5:04:00 PM

Tim said...

Joe's honest and frank assessment of H Street is a welcome change. I admire the big bet on H and hope it eventually yields profits for him and gives us a destination rather than an eyesore.

I am sorry to hear of the beverage license protests by the Linden Neighborhood Association, also known as the Robert Pittman Association. Robert Pittman took over a once proud neighborhood association, stopped holding meetings, eliminated elections, and now uses it as his personal vehicle to further his own interests. It in no way reflects the views of the neighborhood.

Sep 27, 2005, 8:31:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Joe and others-how do you think the Abdo development and supposed Harris Teeter will affect things? Also, isn't Clark realty supposed to be building residential units at the old Hechinger mall?

Sep 27, 2005, 10:24:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Joe you are awesome for believing in H street. I just wonder, with all of the barriers to financing your ventures over there though, what was it that really made you see potential in H street?

Sep 27, 2005, 11:35:00 PM

Joseph Fengler said...

I could not agree more, Mr. Pittman does not speak for our community. Mr. Pittman is in my single member district – much to my chagrin. Outside of a handfull of people on Linden Place, I do not see where he finds his support. However, he does use Linden Neighborhood Association has the primary vehicle to represent the larger community. It is true that he will not release who are the members or officers of the organization – many on his street have asked.

I strongly believe that this is a nuisance protest. My hope is the Alcohol Beverage Control Board will dismiss these frivolous protests as soon as possible. The city provides residents a powerful tool to review liquor licenses; however, Mr. Pittman is grossly abusing that privilege.

To underline my frustration, I am posting the letter our ANC unanimously (all eight commissioners!) approved to send to the Alcohol Beverage Control Board regarding the taverns and restaurants that Mr. Englert proposes to open. This letter details the public community meetings our Commission held before making the decision to enter into voluntary agreements – again a unanimous agreement of all eight Commissioners.

The signed voluntary agreements can be found on our website: www.anc6a.org

Text of letter:

September 19, 2005

Charles Burger
Chairman, Alcoholic Beverage Control Board, Suite 700
941 North Capitol Street, NE
Washington, DC 20002

Mr. Burger:

On September 8, 2005, at our regularly scheduled and properly noticed Advisory Neighborhood Commission 6A (ANC 6A) public meeting, and with all eight commissioners present, the commission voted unanimously to approve the following voluntary agreements:

(1) The Pug, 1234 H Street, NE

(2) The Beehive, 1224 H Street, NE

(3) Granville Moore’s Brickyard, 1238 H Street, NE

(4) The Red and Black, 1212 H Street, NE

(5) The Argonaut, 1433 H Street, NE

(6) The Rock and Roll Hotel, 1353 H Street, NE

These agreements were negotiated at the following seven public meetings over the last six months:

(1) April 19, 2005. Mr. Englert’s initial presentation to ANC 6A Alcohol Beverage Licensing Committee (ABL) outlining proposed establishments and operations.

(2) May 17, 2005. ANC 6A ABL committee discusses agreements with community.

(3) June 21, 2005. ANC 6A ABL committee holds a public forum in which over 75 members of the community attended to discuss these voluntary agreements. Mr. Englert answered questions for more than an hour about the proposed business operations. The ABL committee voted unanimously to recommend the Commission accepts the voluntary agreements.

(4) July 14, 2005. ANC 6A adopts voluntary agreements. There were concerns expressed that some elements of the agreement do not reflect the recently adopted liquor laws. The Commission asked the ABL committee to review agreements with staff at Alcohol Beverage Regulation Administration (ABRA) to determine and identify the specific elements that do not comport with the new regulations.

(5) July 19, 2005. ANC 6A ABL committee discusses potential changes to the ANC 6A Standard Voluntary agreement in order to reflect Entertainment Endorsement application regarding live music.

(6) August 16, 2005. ANC 6A ABL c committee voted unanimously to recommend that ANC 6A adopt eight changes to the standard restaurant/tavern voluntary agreement that reflect the input and comments from ABRA in order to comport the ANC 6A voluntary agreement with the current regulations. Furthermore, the committee recommended that ANC 6A accept and update the recently signed six voluntary agreements with Mr. Englert with the new voluntary agreements.

(7) September 8, 2005. ANC 6A unanimously adopts the committee’s recommendations to accept and update the standard voluntary agreements for restaurants and taverns as well as to re-sign six new voluntary agreements with Mr. Englert (The Beehive, Granville Moore’s Brickyard, The Red and Black, the Argonaut, and the Rock and Roll Hotel) and Mr. Tomelden (The Pug).

All of these meetings were advertised in both local Capitol Hill newspapers – The Hill Rag and the Voice of the Hill. The meeting notices were also posted on our website – www.anc6a.org. The minutes and public record for both the ANC 6A ABL meetings as well as the monthly commission meetings were posted on the website after each meeting. Hard copies of these minutes were included in our ANC 6A meeting agenda packages and made available at monthly commission meetings for the community to review. The July 14, 2005, ANC 6A Commission’s minutes included the complete text of the proposed voluntary agreements for each establishment.

In close, these six voluntary agreements have undergone a through public and deliberate examination as well as extensive review by the ABRA staff. Our Commission continues to strive to implement the best voluntary agreements in the city. The unanimous vote by our Commission indicates that Mr. Englert and Mr. Tomelden have addressed the community’s concerns regarding these establishments.

On behalf of the Commission,

Joseph Fengler
Chair, Advisory Neighborhood Commission 6A

Cc:
Mr. Joseph Englert
Mr. Arthur Tomelden

Sep 28, 2005, 5:57:00 AM

Bill Dunn said...

I would also like to applaud Mr. Engler for really putting his money and faith into H St. In addition, the paint jobs are absolutely necessary. Can you imagine someone coming to H St. from another part of the area and trying to find these bars amongst all the boarded up buildings? The green of the Argonaut and the red of the Showbar make it clear to everyone that these establishments are part of the new growth, instead of the continued decay. That being stated, does anyone know which of these bars might open next, and when that might be? Being a Belgian beer fan, I'm especially looking forward to Dr. Granville's.

Sep 28, 2005, 11:36:00 AM

ljenglert said...

It is great that there are so many people who want H to succeed.
To answer some questions:
I think Abdo, Hoffman and the the others will add hundreds of people to the neighborhood. They will demand more services and better retail. We will all profit.
I came to H with one thing in mind, to build a retail strip. I have been all over the US and believe be it New Orleans, Austin, Philly or NY City, it is five to seven good places that make or create an area of town.
We will be part or associated with seven places (at one time our goal was 10 places) when we are done. I think will be popular with not only locals but people throughout town looking for some quality food and drinks as well as bands. We have quite an opportunity because we can plan lighting, trash pick up, policing security and promotion from day one. Hopefully, it will mean a good, clean, safe and well thought out area. We welcome any positive input on how to improve our vision.
Lastly, Dr Moore's probably won't come on til Spring.

Sep 28, 2005, 8:08:00 PM

Anonymous said...

Why is most of the development towards the end of H street rather than the part which would be closer to Metro? I'm not complaining since I live pretty close to where everything will go, but it seems counterintuitive to me.

Sep 28, 2005, 8:37:00 PM

inked said...

Most of the development is further down on H Street because that area was designated (back a few years ago) as an arts & entertainment area. Closer to Union Station we are supposed to see more housing/mixed-use places, followed by retail. Placing the entertainment at the far end of H had to do with the location of the Atlas (that project has been in the works for a while, even if we are only seeing it recently).

Sep 28, 2005, 9:21:00 PM

Cheryl Brown said...

Mr. Englert

I am a co owner of a local entertainment company and we are looking forward to the opening of the Show Bar. When you are in need of entertainment, please don't hesitate to contact me. I look forward to hearing from you and best of luck on all of your investments.

Cheryl M. Brown
www.nveonline.com

Mar 30, 2006, 9:25:00 AM