Friday, January 12, 2007
RP: Traffic & Parking In the City
Richard offers another post on one of his favorite topics. I'm waiting for him to come out with a quiz called "How Car Centric Are You?" Frankly, I agree with everything he writes here. I never would have moved to DC if it didn't have decent public transportation, and there is no doubt that cities simply weren't built (unless you mean brand new cities) with the idea that every resident would have a car. Any thoughts on Richard's post and the relevance of these issues for our area (aside from the rather obvious fact that a streetcar would help)?
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14 comments:
Well, he's certainly correct on a number of points, but the truth of the matter is that 99% percent of the people who move in from the suburbs are NOT going to give up their car. The freedom and flexibility of car ownership is too strong a draw. (Yes, you could argue that point until you are blue in the face - but you won't convince anyone of anything) The question becomes; what now? The best bet is what is already being done: Insist that any new construction have [more than] adequate off street parking. Most people will try to drive at first, then slowly give it up when going downtown and such - but most aren't going to give up their cars for years, if ever. Most peoples jobs aren't accessible by public transportation - or if they are - their experience mimics mine: 30 minutes by car, vs. an hour and a half by bus and rail.
As for the trolley: I seriously doubt it will improve mobility. It will take up two lanes of H street and make traffic worse. (Given the propensity for double parking in this neighborhood, and the general cut and thrust of traffic, I expect that trolleys are mostly going to throw a wrench in the works for the first year or so, until locals give up/unlearn such bad habits) You've all seen the funny internet pictures of cars crushed between two trams - do you really think H St will be any different? Folks: there's going to be a VERY expensive learning period when trolleys come to H St.
The only reason to go with trolleys is that, since people are nostalgic for them, they don't have the stigma of the buses. (It never ceases to amaze me how many people who call themselves 'progressive', refuse to take the buses because they are 'dirty') Additionally, trolleys can't be re-routed in case of an incident [of whatever type], nor (for all intents and purposes) can the routes be adjusted as the population shifts.
In essence, the shift to trolleys is going to cost a boat load of cash to end up with something that is 'prettier' than, but less effective and less flexible than buses.
Pittsburgh's real estate taxes are unreal--probably 10 times D.C.'s. Also, Pittsburgh hasn't had any immigrants in 80 years. It is a real sad place with a severe brain drain. It needs new blood from around the globe.
Also, it has such an old population, the vast majority of people don't care what most buildings are being used for (Not so many NIMBY's). All in all, a place with a couple of cool things but getting more desperate by the day. I am originally from the Burgh and it is heartbreaking.
The Pittsburgh thing is almost like rooting for the underdog. I know it has all these problems, but these sites at least create the impression that they managed to get an interesting little enclave started there. But I get what you mean. I'm originally from Tulsa, Oklahoma (a place to which I would NEVER relocate), but I'm pretty interested in some of the downtown revitalization efforts there. They've got one stretch with a few bars & some other cool stuff (downtown there has some very cool old buildings left from the "Oil Capitol of the World" days), but downtown is sadly empty much of the time. One of the craziest ideas they've got for development there is to spend millions (develolopers estimate at least 600 million in public money) to build islands in the middle of the Arkansas River & stick a bunch of condos on them. Sort of like a bizarro version of our baseball stadium.
The trolley will be very expensive, but I think we get benefits from it we don't get from buses (which I ride daily). First, I do think there is something psychologically reassuring about seeing tracks & knowing something is going to come running down them soon (just more concrete image than a bus stop). People somehow seem to trust things that run on tracks more. So people who won't ride buses because they don't know the routes, or aren't sure how frequently the buses run are more likely to take a trolley. Second, I think trollies will be more conducive to people sitting back, and looking out the window to "shop" businesses on H Street to decide where to get off. 3rd, I'm concerned about people driving home from bars. For whatever reason, they don't know the routes, they don't know the frequency, they think buses smell, whatever the reason, some people just won't ride buses. Some of these people will drive to bars, drink, and get right back in their cars and drive home. If we can convince them to take a trolley to Union Station we've greatly reduced the danger factor (and this is big).
Also, the trolley is supposed to supplement the bus, not replace it entirely. I am worried about the double parking. I actually think they should start agressively ticketing double parkers (and those who blatently disregard the bus stop signs & park in the bus' spot) on H Street. Agressive ticketing before could help reduce the problem once the trolley is up and running.
My main interests in the Penn Ave Arts things are they way they are going about it, they way it looks to me, and the general concept of revitalization through the arts. I don't want to compare DC & Pittsburgh. I just want to look at the general concept & use Penn Ave & H Street as examples.
trying to knock the square peg of urban revitaization into the round hole of efficiency is futile.
the trolley, h street, revitalizing old cities are not about being efficient.
its about quality and experience. its about uniqueness. its street activity and nightlife. its local shops and markets. If its not about that, we lose to the suburbs almost everytime.
just because someone is "progressive" doesnt mean they want to situate themselves in something they consider dirty. i've taken the x's and 90's that service h street. it can be a nauseating experience at times, and i've got an iron gut.
so are trolleys really less effective? if your goal is efficiency of mobility then yes they are less effective. if your goal is an economic and cultural revitalization of h street then i would think it will be more effective that the x2 ,especially if it is going to connect to union station.
I'm surprised that Richard's post didn't include a mention of street pricing. As long as its a free good people will over use it.
Getting a little more local I'm embarrassed to say that I will sometimes drive over to H St at night despite the fact that it's so close simply because I refuse to put my fiancee's or my friends' lives at risk. There have been two shootouts near here in the last month that were around 10 shots each. So walkability and getting cars off the street is also a safety issue.
Finally on the trams...growing pains are not a valid reason for not doing something. Although it may be true in this instance because of the small number of routes proposed for DC, it's not true in general that trolleys can't be re-routed. When I lived in Prague that happened all the time. Light rail is doing well in South Jersey where I'm from and has proved the naysayers wrong. Trams are also a great feature of many of the European cities I've lived in and visited so Anonymous's statements don't ring true to me.
I ride the B2 bus every weekday and I generally find it cleaner than the older metro rail cars. (I love those bleach spots on the nasty orange carpet)
If they do get "the next bus will arrive in XX minutes" signs working at the bus stops, then I think more people may use them. It just feels unsafe to stand at the bus stop forever waiting a bus. They are testing the signs at the bus stops at the Anacostia station.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to the trolley and I will use it for trips downtown, and leave the car at home.
Same anon as top.
I didn't say the growing pains were a reason not to go with trolleys. I flatly pointed out that there will be growing pains. And I pointed out that they probably won't improve mobility, and will likely hinder it - at least in the short term. And car-centric mobility is where this thread started out - so that is the context in which I was commenting.
It's certainly true that older cities weren't built with the idea that everyone would own a car. (Doubly true in Europe) You can point to the success of public transport in Euro cities... but doing so conveniently glosses over massive differences between there and here.
(A) the higher Euro population densities are a big part of it, but the residents here are constantly fighting higher population densities. Here, the building codes, height limits, and zoning mean we won't see those densities.
(B) most Euros don't have a choice since they can't afford a car. Here, even the 'poor' can afford a car. Also, people are used to owning cars and won't give up that freedom/ flexibility of mobility lightly.
The point I made still stands. The best bet is to force developers to accommodate the inevitable cars, and then trust the reality of city life to wean most people off of their cars within a few years.
I hope inked (and the others) are right. I hope the trolley will lift H St. I even like their arguments, but I think some of them break down a bit when you realize we're getting trams, not trolleys.
I hope it works, I do, but I think it's a pretty expensive gamble and I fear that they will, in a few years, be little different than the trams in Boston or Philly - and will have the same stigma that buses have today.
Only if we can get the kind of enforcement and maintenance that keeps the metro clean and nice, will they really work. Is that commitment there? I don't know - but if it was, I doubt the buses would be in the state they're in.
Call me negative. Call me a naysayer. But these are real structural issues; and they need to be acknowledged and accounted for, subjected to genuine contingency planning, and not just glossed over in a flurry of optimism and wishful thinking. Ignore them to your peril. Address them to everyones benefit.
The tram /trolley distinction seems a bit blurry. What were looking at is fairly morn looking light rail. I'm not expecting it to look quaint. Light rail will cost more than buses, but I think we'll also get lots more people riding. It's pretty frustrating when a bus (or sometimes 2, or 3 buses) passes you by in the morning because it's too full (another reason some people might not choose to ride). Check out this useful entry from Answers.com.
That Answers.com piece is interesting...it has a picture of the SLC Trax, which is sort of analogous to the early phases of what's being proposed here in the sense that the number of lines is limited.
I would suggest that top-anon may have hit it on the head. "The realities of city life" are the congested streets and difficult driving. Installing trams will change the realities of city life in ways that will get people out of their cars more quickly, a good outcome.
Sure, force more parking. But the capacity of the streets inside the city is essentially fixed and from my observation is at its limit during rush hour. Trams can't possibly make it worse (it's like that line in Spinal Tap...how much more worse could it be? And the answer is "None more worse"). They *can* however provide people with an alternative they'll enjoy taking mor e than buses...and that will get people out of cars, which is the goal.
Small points: My impression is that the difference in density between the average European city and DC is not "massive". And also I think saying that "most" (Western at least) Europeans can't afford a car is way off the mark. I'd like to see data to support these two claims or maybe an example.
anon again:
Population Density: go to Wiki
"List_of_selected_cities_by_population_density"
Use city centers for apples to apples comparo.
Car ownership rates:
Google this:
"Vehicle Ownership and Income Growth, Worldwide: 1960-2030"
Note: this paper gives vehicles per capita, whereas vehicles per household would be a better comparison - since it takes children and geriatrics out of the game...
But beggars can't be choosers, and besides: It's time for me to _drive_ home, and hop the X2 downtown for burgers and beers! :)
anon 4:12,
"Ignore them to your peril. Address them to everyones benefit."
aint no joke there. you are absolutely right to be concerned. we can't just jump in.
"The best bet is to force developers to accommodate the inevitable cars, and then trust the reality of city life to wean most people off of their cars within a few years."
kinda yeah, but also we need to persuade the city and developers as the what the reality of city life is and ought to be.
We have a lot of developers with a car centric suburban approach to design. In our urban ( or even semi urban) area we need design that acknowledges this, and promotes pedestrian life.
If the reality of city life is the home depot and the lincoln heights projects then we're kinda stuck with driving and more and more traffic.
it takes both approaches. ie, the p street whole foods and columbia heights giant come to mind......
the lansburg in penn quarter is a great example too.
i dont think anyone thinks the tram is the end-all.... least i hope not...
Thanks top-anon, looks like you've made a good point about densities there and I learned something today.
What makes me hopeful for the future of DC is seeing that Prague, Helsinki, Berlin, Vienna--all places I've taken the tram and felt it really added to the experience of the city--have similar densities as DC.
I would really like a trolley. I feel a bit stranded here sometimes.
I walk to work, near the Capitol, which is fantastic. But I feel like I can't get out of this neighborhood at night.
I happily lived with no car in DC for many years. Now I've got a car because I married someone who keeps one. I use it for shopping trips, and on occasion for going out -- I drive to another part of the city, park, drink, then get a cab home, leaving the car overnight. Then I have to go back and get the car the next day.
(You're right to be concerned about people driving home from the H Street bars -- I know lots of people who come down here from NW by car and drive home.)
I've tried to take the bus, but got frustrated with the schedule. I don't want to be standing out on the street, especially by myself, for a long time after dark.
Can't catch a cab here at night (though it's easy to catch one in the morning -- drivers coming into the city from Maryland by H Street). Calling a cab service -- they don't want to come over here, so they just don't show up.
I have a couple drivers "on call," but that doesn't always work out.
I would definitely use the trolley and I think it would be great for the neighborhood.
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