Bye bye US Beef building, hello 11 story thingy
A sign recently went up on the former site of the US Beef Building. So, I'm talking about Florida Avenue right across from the impossible to miss Two Rivers Charter School. So, if you are walking from the NY Ave metro stop, this is how you would enter the Market. The sign which advertises for the Gateway Market Residences, brought to you by Sang Oh [Choi!] Development. Mr. Choi is, of course, the man (or men, since John Ray is involved) with the vision behind New Town at the Capital City Market. Also, on the sign were a phone number & a website (both of which I wrote down, but do not have in front of me). There was also a hookline: "Pretty soon you won't recognize the place. Promise."
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UPDATE
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Here is the website: www.GatewayMarketandResidences.comUPDATE
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202-265-2464
Sang Oh Development, LLC
So, I'm not suggesting that all development is bad (I like the H Street stuff, right?). I'm just saying that this is not the best plan for this area. I'm concerned about the wording of the actual act. I think it will have (at least) two troubling aspects:
1) it will push out (by default) a lot of existing vendors
2) it will (I suspect, but read the act for yourself) involve the demolition of lots of historic buildings.
3) also, doesn't the eminent domain thing bother more people?
4) what about the fact that this looks kind like a no bid contract that the Council is making with a rather inexperienced developer?
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FURTHER UPDATE
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Here is a map of the Market that you can compare to the map on Choi's website.
68 comments:
If there's one thing this town needs, it's more condos. Particularly in this real estate market.
That and overpriced tapas places.
So, how much is Ray making off of this deal?
I wonder if it's really a done deal or if this is a half-assed attempt to psych out the remaining owners or create "facts on the ground".
cool! can't wait to get rid of that eyesore of a market.
they busted another prostitute there the night before last. apparently, she was in a car performing some kind of act.
we saw the cops and laughed as we left, but she and her joe were none too happy.
that place is a hell hole.
Elise -- are you going to do another Market tour now that the weather is nice(r)? I missed the ones last year, and would love to learn about the non-Litteri's highlights of our poor, doomed market district.
And Anon 12:30? Pul-ease, take your flame-bait elsewhere. You are either baiting us or unfamilar with this website.
So Anonymous, I guess the only possible way to get rid of prostitutes is bulldoze the place, eh? Of course, how stupid of me.
Monkey Erotica,
no idea, but it's got to be a bundle. I've also located the website link so you can check it out. They've got lots of nice stock photos purchased from somewhere.
Agreed on the condo thing. That's why I'm so thrilled that the guys across from my house have apparently decided to just go with the giant dirt pit in the ground rather than actually building condos.
And maybe you could call the developers to suggest that they stick a tapas place downstairs. Here's the phone number from the sign: 202-265-2464.
RP,
this is not a done deal. The US Beef building thing is pretty much a done deal, but not the entire New Town. They still have to get 51% approval (which I hear they don't have) in order to trigger eminent domain. Seriously, read the legislation and you'll have a better understanding of the project. By the way, it comes before the Council again in May.
YL,
We are doing an abreviated one on April 21st for the Cultural Tourism event, but we won't go into a lot of the places (group size will likely be very large), or eat Korean food or Litteri's. We'll be doing some more regular ones this summer.
no, you don't bulldoze the place to get rid of prostitution, drugs, violence.
we have the police force to do that for us. which, by the way, they are doing one heckuva job at fixing.
i'm not saying they should raze the place, but it definitely needs some fixing. an influx of cash and development/restoration is one way to trump the violence.
i'm all for that. apparently you don't live next to the market.
or you definitely don't have to go through it at night.
it's a breeding ground for criminals.
you could even partly blame the market for the car that ran over those two kids on florida.
it's gotta go. or at least change significantly.
choi stepped in. that's what happens when you have cash.
it talks. the warm fuzzy idealistic feelings about a hell hole have to walk.
it's called life.
right on, anonymous 1:28
For the life of me, I just don't get this weird attachment -- from neighbors, of all people -- to crappy, crime ridden neighborhoods, and the reactionary resistance to anyone who wants to develop the area into something better. Do you think U Street was better 10 years ago than it is now, before development? Give me a break.
I don't think anyone is addicted to crappiness. It's more that stores like what exist right now in the market are unlikely to be able to afford rent in a classier place.
So, either we take nicer-looking, cleaner but ultimately more boring places (since chains end up taking lots of the space, or so trends indicate), or we deal with some problems but have actual retail diversity, with places that serve necessary demand (think restaurants, not necessarily consumers) but which wouldn't be in somebody's idea of a strolling district.
No, I live right where those kids were hit, and it had nothing to do with the Market. It had to do with a teenager buying drugs who decided that his ability to run away from the cops outweighed other people's lives.
I don't oppose developing the Market. I just don't like this proposal. It isn't as if our choices are New Town, or do nothing.
I would like to maybe go on one of the tours to learn more about the history (beyond Litteri's). Maybe that would help persuade my opinion on redevelopment. My opinion as it stands now though is that I would sacrifice Litteri's if it meant having something overall cleaner and safer than what is there now.
Looking over the website, it sounds like they've abandoned the idea of the New Town proposal. The advertising touts the Union Market as being nearby.
I have doubts about the viability of condos there but if it works, it would bring a good sized client base which would support some nicer businesses at the Market thus allowing more development etc.
They haven't abandoned New Town. New Town is the name for the entire proposal (in the legislation), but it's also the name for a smaller mixed use portion of the development (click through the website to see it mentioned). The plan is to build a separate market in a corner of the development and to move all the vendors there, but you can bet that it would be at much higher rent since you are talking about new construction. So, you have to assume that vendors will:
a) be willing and able to relocate & pay more rent
b) be willing to deal with years of construction and the problems it will create.
Or will they relocate to the wholesale area in Maryland? Is that perhaps the idea since a developer could probably get much higher rents by renting the space to chains?
That is one butt ugly building they've got featured prominently on their website. I'm not anti development, but if you're going to do this, at least put some though tinto the design. That hideous thing looks like it fell of out Moscow circa 1983, with a little bit more glass. Or, not to be impolitic, but it has a certain public housing tower look to it, albeit again with more glass.
How about some actual design detail? It doesn't have to be fake Victorian. It can be cutting edge. But this just looks cheap and crappy.
Yep, cheap and crappy-so they can make as much money as possible on their over-priced Reston town center-ish design. Does anyone else realize that with the market gone, the next closest place for restaurants in DC to stock up on fresh meats/vegs/etc. is Baltimore? If you think prices are high now in restaurants, wait 'til the managers have to drive to Baltimore. Why does everyone hate authentic, vibrant, well run areas in the city? We've got precious few left, and I'm starting to feel like I'm living in a fake city. Whenever someone says that it's either a crime ridden "hellhole" or disgusting, generic, condos, you know you've got to worry. Like Elise said, why can't we have a cleaned up, still vibrant (with the same tenants) market? Anyway, according to the owner of Litteri's, Choi's got no where near 51%--so here's hoping that the market will stay.
Well, it's not like no one saw this coming... And most owners have done absolutely nothing to improve their buildings. As long as the place looks like it does, the tenants and owners leave themselves open to eminent domain abuse by the city. If they can't be bothered to do something as cheap and simple as a power wash and re-paint, or maybe removing some of the derelict signage, should we really have any sympathy for them?
-a different 'anonymous'
Well hey, what about something involing the Office of Planning (and other city agencies. They could draw up some ideas and give vendors info about low interest loans (um, a bit like a Main Street project). Litteri's obviously has some case, customer base, and ideas (as do -at the very least- Obeng, All Africa, & Caribbean Crescent). Seriously, these are vendors that want to improve their shops and the Market. They are totally willing to listen to ideas & run with them. They WANT the additional business. Why not go with that?
I'm normally very pro-development, but this thing looks like a real loser to me. The images on the website show a place that looks like either the abominable Mass Ave or the 900-100 block of U Street...that is to say, utterly uninspiring and boring architecture that will look awful in 10 years.
Add to that the slowing real estate market and I don't see how this works.
As much as I find Union Market interesting, the fact is that it is an economic relic. Most of the mid to large wholesale food distributors (that cater to restaurants/markets) left Florida Avenue by the mid-90s for cheaper and larger warehouses in PG and Howard counties. Today Jessup, MD is the true wholesale food distribution hub for the DC/Baltimore area. Fortunately, immigrant entrepeneurs have kept Union Market alive but, for god's sake don't overestimate its importance to the local food scene. Personally I think bringing some new development (albeit in the right context) to the market may be a good thing in that it may bring some much needed love to this vibrant but far too shabby section of town.
a few years ago the office of planning came up with a nice idea for the market. Anyone know waht happend to this place?
My understanding is the the Office of Planning of study was never released. I have called them to see what they have). Again, it it isn't like existing vendors/owners are resistant to development. It's maybe more that they need a little help with development stuff (like low interest rate small business loans). Isn't this basically what DC is supposed to be doing? Think this through guys, this isn't about a developer doing this out of the godness of his hear (or even about developer interest coinciding with community interest), it's about some people trying to get some money in their pockets for some half-baked development plan.
"...Well hey, what about something involving the Office of Planning (and other city agencies..."
Well, ummm, isn't sitting around and waiting for 'the government' to do something what landed them in this mess in the first place? Why should our tax dollars have to subsidize them? We're talking about business owners here; people who have already shown themselves to have initiative.
If I had wanted to live in Reston, I would have bought a home in Reston. As Elise said, it's not as if the choices are 1) to make the Market like Reston, or 2) nothing at all; but making it like Reston seems to be what some people here (and sadly, some people in the Council) are dead set on.
I love the funkyness of the market, but unfortunately there must be a compromise. The market is on prime real estate (right next to a brand new metro station in upcoming NOMA, near capitol hill, near Union station and the future development there, near downtown, near the U street corridor, and has an amazing view of the capitol). This space has so much potential for the city in terms of development of even more of a destination, as well as tax dollars for DC, sometimes we have to fight knee-jerk reactions and ask ourselves what are we really fighting for? Perhaps the food distribution should be moved to close in maryland (not Baltimore). Of course some elements of the market should stay, but warehouse space and a flea market overlooking the capitol is a cruel joke. DC deserves better.
The fact that eminent domain is going to be needed to do this makes it wholly unjustifiable in my opinion. There is nothing in any eminent domain law anywhere that would make the market a target. It's not blighted, it's not a safety issue (otherwise a lot of residential neighborhoods should be taken over because there's a lot more crime in Carver Terrace, for example, than the market), it's a thriving market that just needs to be cleaned up a bit. Taking it over so one developer can build a bunch of stuff we don't need (like condos) is absurd.
Work with the people who want to improve, and the others will follow.
My main issue with the market is that it really is mostly wholesale and as such benefits the surrounding community only tangentially. Yes, there are a couple of places where you can buy retail. But not many. And the Farmers Market, honestly, isn't that spectacular either. It's sortof cool to just walk through to see a working wholesale market, but I wouldn't advise it for the average person. I've come close to getting whacked by delivery trucks more than once whilst biking through that area.
"Do you think U Street was better 10 years ago than it is now, before development?"
Yes. U Street WAS better circa 1996. I lived there. And development started off U Street in 1991 and only picked up steam in 1998. Prior to that, the area was still affordable, you still had some cool stores to go to, and there weren't any leather furniture stores where you could buy a sofa for 6-months rent.
Today, it's full of a lot of overpaid hipsters with more money than brains, who are actually surprised that their car gets broken into when they leave an expensive Italian leather jacket in plain sight. People who think that since they've blown $750k on a condo, they don't need to get involved in the community, beyond demanding that they get more cops to patrol THEIR particular ally.
Guess who's moving into New Town? Yup, the overpaid hipsters who can't afford U Street anymore.
Anon 12:40,
trust me, if New Town happens, your tax dollars WILL be subsidizing the hell out of it. First, these guys want free land from DC, and tax incentives, and all kinds of other stuff. Part of the plan calls for the construction of workforce housing (aka "affordable" housing). I don't, off the top of my head, know the income numbers with which they were working. But we will further subsidize that housing.
Giving low interest loans to small business owners who may be lacking in cash flow is a good idea. That's a classic use of CDBG funds. We do it all the time, and guess what. It works, not every time, but enough that we keep doing it.
Hillman,
it's more than just a couple of places that sell to the public. First, any one of the vendors in DC Farmers Market will sell to the public (I'm guessing that is around 30 vendors right there, but it is probably more), and I can, off the top of my head, think of more than 15 other individual stores that sell to the public. I'm not counting the flea market, and I'm not counting the carryouts, restaurants, or clubs. So that's already 45 different vendors you could buy from. I think that qualifies as many. And a lot of the people shopping on a Saturday are not from restaurants or stores, they are shopping for their families and churches (churches are supposedly the reason some of the butchers in the farmers market started selling to the public, and that's got to be who is buying most of those giant meat packs.
Awful idea.
They let them build acres of parking lots right next to the Rhode Island metro.
Now all of the sudden a viable unique place in the crap hole city is underutalized and will be turned into condos.
I deal with enough overpaid yuppie douchebags already.
I really don't need to deal with them in my hood too.
"...who are actually surprised that their car gets broken into when they leave an expensive Italian leather jacket in plain sight..."
Yep, God forbid anyone should expect lawful behavior in DC! Because ya know; the occasional smash and grab, or rape at knife-point, is just part of that unique DC character that we all love so much.
Ok, so let me get this straight. Choi & Co are redeveloping only the site of the building he/they own, yes...meanwhile the rest of the owners have kept the larger project from moving ahead because it can't meet the threshold in the legislation, right?
Ok, then besides the fact that I agree it's the sort of building that will probably have us asking "What were they *thinking*?"...isn't this a win/win? Most of the market buildings will remain. Meanwhile, part of the Market will get redeveloped, creating a ready-made block of customers for the nearby vendors. The vendors might make more money and have incentive to do more retail and spruce their places up a bit, eh? Just a thought.
Rob,
no, the 11 story building in question is just part of Choi's project. He wants everyone's land. Click through the site and you'll see a bunch of maps that will make this all more clear. The other stuff you will see a bit of language where they use words like "restore." This is a reference to a provision in the legislation calling for preservation of some existing structures (which appear in the renderings). But, if you read the legislation, you will notice that all the preservation stuff is easliy waivable. The language is that they have to preserve the buildings "unless it is found to be impractical to do so by the Developer and the Office of Planning." Impractical?? What the hell kind of standard is that? Seriously, it's a joke. Also, That US Beef building that Choi demolished, identical to those he's now saying he wants to preserve. I guess it was "impractical" to keep the one on the corner.
The legislation goes before the Council again in May. I'm saying that I've heard that they don't have the necessary approval, but I could be wrong, or they might find a way to get it (Gallaudet & the District are big owners in the Area & Choi owns a decent chunk). I am not saying that New Town is dead in the water. I'm saying that this thing could go either way, so people should learn about it and look carefully at what this really means.
Understood that he wants the whole site, but there are several roadblocks and I also agree that people should get educated and make noise about this because I don't believe eminent domain or subsidies should be involved.
I think even the people who comment on this topic that they want to see re-development should still agree that there should be no public subsidy for this deal. If you believe that this project truly represents a higher use of the land involved then you should agree that market forces should prevail. Otherwise it's just another real estate developer getting rich because of corrupt connections w/ politicians.
The current Florida market used to be on a site where the Archives building now stands. They TOTALLY RAZED the old site and the market migrated to where it is now.
So... the precedent is that markets get razed as the city grows.
The only difference is that the last market was razed for a pretty cool structure.
This one might get razed for some mediocre buildings.
I agree with Rob. The one building might actually push this project forward, or create an interest in preserving the old buildings.
Either way, it's going to get built, so let's see....
i thought a market was where the navy memorial is, across the street. its called "market square" now. is that inaccurate?
Also. i saw the OP renderings at a neighborhood meeting once. I thought it was a great plan.
stop the bigotry.
"yuppie douchebags" are people too.
so much hate. maybe should should try to friends with some.
What do you mean by OP renderings?
Inked: Exclusive of the Farmers Market and flea market, can you tell me ten vendors that routinely sell retail to neighborhood residents?
they all do.
they say wholesale, but you can walk into any one of those places and buy one, two, etc. of anything they have.
you have to venture around the market, but there are some fun little places to get all kinds of stuff.
by the way, i'm one who's very much PRO development of the place.
Or you could, y'know, just not leave expensive things in plain sight. Or maybe you're one of those people who leaves all their doors unlocked?
"Lawful behavior in DC!" That's a riot! What planet are you from?
Only 10?
1. Obeng
2. Sam Wang's Kang's Farm (although the recently changed the name, and I forget the new one)
3.Don Pepe's
4. U.S. Beef
5. Caribbean Cresent
6. Best Equipment
7. Litteri's
8. All African
9. Mexican Fruit
10. Far East Noodle
I've updated the post with a link to a map of the Market that you can compare to the maps on Choi's website.
Then I stand corrected. There is more retail than I've seen in my trips through that area. But I'd still argue that it's primarily a wholesale market.
Building very nice! Remind me much of Chernenko memorial building in home country.
i hope they include a public multi religious open prayer area to accomodate folks of faith.
i guess my dream of turning the market into a MEGA CHURCH is slowly eroding...
Are you kidding with the mega church? It's not like DC is lacking for churches as it is. And let's not forget that churches pay no taxes, so from a city investment standpoint that'd be a hard sell.
you know what would be really cool? a mega coffee house with a mega church/theatre facility underneath! oh wait...
You forgot the mega furntiure store. They should build that where the Burger King is (What self respecting yuppie eats Burger King?)
what about a mini georgetown?
that would be cool!
or... even though the mega church thing appeals to my inner lord-loving organ, an ikea?
now that would be cool!
maybe a sanitized adams morgan?
or, maybe just keep it like it is.
you can get the best prices for crack (both varieties) on weekends after 3 a.m.
wow, so many possibilities.
i'm so confused!
let's just broom the streets and call it cool, ok?
every city needs a ghetto, and we're running out of those.
we're the last bastion, folks!
let a dealer pursue a career.
we are a democracy, right?
keep it like it is, and lets throw dollars at the police department to fix it. yeah, that works.
i like the trash and the illegalities prevalent at the wholesale market once it closes.
it gives the neighborhood a bit of an 'air' and a sense of being a rebel or an innovator.
maybe it's because i'm from iowa.
like i'm sure most of you are.
or oklahoma or somewhere.
the market is cool if you've never lived in a city.
ohh.. the danger, the coolness of shopping in a place where you could get robbed or raped... BUT YOU DON'T.
that's something to write home about.
you may not volunteer for the war in iraq, but you're risking your life.
that's cool.
i had my car smashed as i was going to home depot. it was a saturday afternoon, and two guys got into a fight, and started bloodying my car with their punches.
wow. really cool.
cops were there and just said "move on".
i had to pay for my repairs.
mmmmmm... gotta love that.
it may not be a blighted area, but it's just as bad in daytime as it is when it closes.
when the wholesalers are away, the rats will play. and they do.
it is indeed a hell hole at night.
you hippies that sit around and sing the praises of a cool little wholesale market are losers.
i can bet that you've never even been through the market at night.
unless of course you purchase illegal drugs/prositutes.
seriously, grow up.
in five to ten years, you might think differently, unless of course you get raped or knifed before then.
i'll stop now, cuz i'm sure no one is reading this, cuz they're out in the market skateboarding, or selling vegan tofu wraps.
unbelievable how you folks think that you're going to keep this neighborhood from becoming a respectable place.
seriously.
wait until something bad happens to you.
it's easy to throw money at victims, with hopes that things will change.
when you are raped and knifed, New Town looks pretty good.
too many children on this blog.
educated, priveleged kids that think they are doing the right thing.
it's very disheartening.
live in the future, not in the past.
it's not your fault that you are dying to feel 'the people's pain'.
they want much more than you do.
help them.
support them.
quit trying to be hip and cool wanna be adams-morgansters that can't affort that part of the city.
oh yeah, and get a life.
you young people that don't ever intend on living here and having CHILDREN don't really want to see a safe environment.
it seems that you just want to be cool, living in a ghetto. and hey, that's great.
then move to watts or somewhere.
for us breeders, it's a different story.
for people that want to stick around, the currrent situation is unacceptable.
you like grotesque?
go elsewhere.
it ain't gonna happen here.
sell your house, or drop your lease.
move to price george's county.
you'll feel much more at home.
it's much cooler there.
and you'll really diss your priveleged upbringing.
show them how 'ghetto' you are.
for the rest of us, i think we welcome a change of pace.
but then again, i'm not an obnoxious twenty something that has some kind of point to make.
i think a lot of you need therapy.
or maybe you're "dying" to get robbed/raped/assaulted.
you'll show your parents/friends/relatives how different you are from them.
if you ask anyone that has been here - LIVING here - for longer than you have been born... they embrace changing the area.
white or black or asian or latino,
we want change.
you yuppies in disguise are just holding us back.
i want to sell my house and get out of here.
why are you holding me back?
i want a life!
this blog is very selfish.
you people are selfish.
you just want to be on top of us.
i won't accept that.
let my people go!
to a nicer place.
and enjoy your new place,
i don't want to ever come back.
I shopped at the market inummerous times. I like the "idea" of the market.
I think some of you that glorify the place are a little too out of touch with reality and the meaning of the word "development".
I live by the market, and I'm not glad to see prostitutes, used condoms on the ground, fights and trucks ready to run you over.
Cities don;t just stop developing. I don't think everything has to look the same and generic, but please....if you all think that just a little paint job and new signs will do the job, you are out of your minds...I live in one these places, a small street that has a lot of character, everyone knows everyone, but do I really want a bunch of condoms constantly on the side walks. Do i really want to maintain a little crack house nearby? No. Things change.
I read in another post that some of you think that if the market got cleanned up it migh attract 'turism'. Yeah, tourist will come to DC to buy lettuce, meats and crap (aka flea market). Let them buy the 100 or so cases of rotten produce that was I saw on the street last week.
No I'm not a suburbanite that wants everything to be a big shopping mall. I lived in New York all my life. I lived through the 'bad' 42nd street, the development and yes, the new 42nd street. The meat packing district and all that.
Some of you are so adamant to keep the market the way it is - or just clean it up. Is that because you are against big corporations or development or concern by the enviroment or just against the system?
Please i guess none of you bought groceries from Giant, Safeway, Trader Joe's, Harrys Teeter. None of you actually bought anything from CVS, drank coffee from Starbucks...you all buy produce at the Market, drink from a well on your backyard and raise cattle.
People get with the program...if you want to keep things the way they are just because they have character, or because it's part of the neighborhood, go live in mountain somewhere in Oregon, where nothing changes...granted a lot of you want to develop the market just to make it better, and clean and safe....I'm sorry, as I said before a paint job is not going to do it.
When one has children, the whole picture changes.
It's not so cool to live within one block of a rape.
And, have your daughter watch.
A shitty building is a small compromise.
But I respect your juvenile ideals.
I had those too, once.
Live a little bit (outside of school), and then get back to me.
Or not.
Maybe you just want to aid and abet criminals, because it makes you seem soooooooo counter culture and cool.
Not making judgements.
But give parents a chance.
If you really want to fight a battle, move somewhere else.
Somewhere where you can espouse your ideals amongst a bunch of no-gooders.
Some of you think you're acting in the best interest of long time local residents, but you are wrong.
Leave.
Go fight your battles elsewhere.
Breeders?
breeders.
i dig the word.
and i'm a straight male.
who wants to have kids.
go figure that one out, genius.
I'm familiar with the word. I just find it odd that you need to bring up sexual orientation in a wild rant about the market. I realize gay people like myself are responsible for ruining the pristine state of marriage in America (because as we know the stunning divorce rate in America is all the fault of *the gays*), but I never knew we were also responsible for the condition of this particular market area.
Man, in the last 12 hours the dialogue in this thread went from interesting and provocative to just completely fucking useless.
Anonymous (the one leaving many comments here last night),
I don't see what the point of always being so hostile and negative to basically anyone who isn't you. Have a little respect and decency. I think it's great when people disagree and discuss, but just repeatedly flaming a post is not productive.
If people could keep on topic & actually have a reasonable discussion (politely, we're all neighbors here right?), I'd prefer it. And Hillman, don't be offended by that Anonymous, he's just got too much time on his hands on a Friday night and he likes to goad people. Don't egg him on.
Inked:
I'm not offended.
Just curious.
I'd never seen the suggestion that only "breeders" can "save" urban areas before and was mildy curious as to the rationale for that concept.
I actually wish this blog had a mechanism in which people at least had to choose a screen name other than Anonymous. Having multiple posters named Anonymous is really confusing, especially in light of recent postings by one of the many Anonymous's.
And actually I agree with limited parts of Anonymous's rant. The whole hipster attitude he suggests exists does in fact exist, and it is often divorced from the realities of living in an urban setting, especially one that still has problems with crime (whether we like to admit that or not).
I'd hate to see a sterile mini-Rosslyn at this Florida Ave market location as much as the next guy, but I think we're also in danger of glamorizing what we have there to the point that we overlook things like crime.
And newcomers to the neighborhood sometimes don't have any idea what longterm residents want. I was guilty of that when I moved to the Hill a decade ago (to many, that still makes me an outsider). I made a lot of silly assumptions. Turns out my longterm neighbors wanted pretty much the same things as I did.
In fact, quite a few were far more adamant than I about wanting better quality local restaurants, better police, etc. - all the things that many newcomers think are signs of the All Consuming Evil they lump together indiscriminately with such loaded terms as 'gentrification'.
The hipster vs other resident divide that Anonymous highlighted (albeit in a fairly less than useful tone) really does exist. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out on H Street, since the first incarnation of the strip will be the Hipster Haven, with the bars, the 'edginess', etc.
We're already seeing it a bit, with those demanding that all neighborhood residents walk or take public transit no matter what, and denigrating those of us that don't.
The whole concept of 'edginess' as a saleable commodity has always interested me. Whether we like it or not, a lot of visitors to H Street view their visit as an exercise in 'slumming it'. We can harness that to the betterment of the strip and by extension the neighborhood, but it's my fervent desire to see H Street mature beyond that, so that we'll have real security, real adult gathering spots (not that I'm denigrating the younger crowd and their gathering spots.... they certainly have their place).
But DC already has a jillion 'hipster' strips. If H Street is going to survive and thrive long term, it needs to mature beyond that.
I like the fact that H Street is getting a separate identity as a destination for live music and performances. That has staying power. But to truly survive (and serve the residential community) we need the sit down restaurants, the quality businesses, etc. And these are things that an older, usually wealthier crowd brings. Those people already exist in the neighborhood. They are a market waiting to be tapped.
But the hipster market and us old cranks have different tolerance levels for crime (or perceptions of the possibility of crime) and 'edginess', or lack thereof. How these two groups coexist as H Street matures will be very interesting.
Oh, and a world class gym, preferably in the West End of H. But I digress....
a gym on the west end of H would be great!
i'm the annoying anonymous, btw.
just thought i'd kick things up a notch.
sometimes you have to be a bit controversial to get people to speak.
i did my job.
mission accomplished.
public forums need to be about diversity. not 'groupthink'.
i dare other people to spark some innovative/contrarian views.
that's the only way that one comes to the best solution.
and yeah, i posted a lot on friday night, but i didn't have too much time on my hands.
there were a bunch of area folks around, and it was just fun to try and get everyone's views on a single posting.
or maybe several postings.
anyway, let's hope that inked's blog will provide a pathway for a positive move forward.
the last thing i would hope for is that inked's blog would become a groupthinktank.
yuck.
Did your job? Was that to be a prick? If so, mission accomplished! Though as someone who has two children, I'm not sure of the likelyhood of your breeding.
thanks.
i'll review your promotion tomorrow.
in the meantime, play nice.
clearly, you aren't a prick.
you just sound like one on a dc blog.
Ok Anonymous,
your last comment has been removed. I've asked people to keep it civil, and you don't seem able to do that. Gay bashing is not a valid form of argument. Keep it up, and your comments won't appear on this site.
Sorry Inked.
That was too much.
It's just very hard being me.
So very, very alone.
I just think people are so immature.
They need to grow up or leave.
Except the women.
I'm so very, very alone.
But who would have me?
You can't be a breeder unless...
Oh well, forget it.
Damm Hippies.
Memories fill my mind of a time, a time in college.
I bought the tie-dyes, the sandals, the Greatful dead albums...
Why won't they have me?
Damm Hippies just need to leave.
Leave me alone with my dreams.
Grow up.
Grow up or leave.
Mission accomplished.
Mission Accomplished.......
i just wanted to be the 68th post on this thread. :op
nice poem, btw.
speaks for a lot of folks.
hang in there!
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