CP: Where the Streetcar Ends
The City Paper writes about, and maps. the possible western endpoints for the streetcar.
posted by inked at 11:36 AM
Tuesday, August 23, 2011
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19 Comments:
I like the 2nd Street option.
Beats having to traipse through a parking garage, escalators, etc.
Like it or not those are pretty substantial mental impediments.
Also most of 2nd Street is zoned commercial. With a trolley access so close maybe at least a few of those would consider rezoning retail/restaurant, which would serve the immediate community much better than the lobbyist shops that most of them are now.
And it would raise property values for all those businesses along H Street.
And we wouldn't be at the future mercy of Amtrak and Union Station officials, who in theory could at a later date decide they don't want the trolley stop accessing their property.
And it would incorporate more Cap Hill residents into the immediate trolley footprint.
Aug 23, 2011, 12:13:00 PM
Really liking the 2nd street option. If it dumps you out by Ebenezers, Union Station is really close by. Also looks to be the lowest-cost option out of all of em.
Aug 23, 2011, 12:50:00 PM
The long term plans are go over the hopscotch bridge, so I like option 1 best. The garage entrance will be improved with more pedestrian friendly features as well, to tie in with the new bus depot.
For the alternates, 3rd Street would connect up to NoMa, where there is a huge amount of development ongoing and planned. That street is also primarily commercially zoned North of H, just like 2nd.
Aug 23, 2011, 12:55:00 PM
Stopping on H St bridge is fine, but it would be better if it went into the garage. Why didnt that idea make in into this round? Walking through the garage to metro isnt that bad. I dont go into union station. I take an unpedestrian friendy path and stay outside to get to the metro. It works ok but could be made easier
The connection to NOMA isnt a bad idea. It doesnt really help me as an H St resident, but it should bring more people to the area as NOMA is developed
I dont like the 2nd st idea. Seems like more work, more turns, longer trip, same walk as H St bridge stop but slightly up hill and in the summer sun
Long term, where is H St expecting to draw people from? It will always be a hike for people from VA and the west to get here and the novelty of H St could wear off enough for them to start hanging out closer to home.
Maybe if we focused on attracting future residents of NOMA and places north and east we can poach Silver Springers who want to come into the city. I also think there is going to be a long term influx of people, development, and money towards the suburbs in the north and east. There are supposed to be like 50k jobs moving to Fort Meade in the next 15 years or something. I would expect some people won't want to keep driving from Chantilly. As more people start living along the BW parkway, H St would likely be the easiest destination in the city for them.
After typing that a connection to the west is probably needed to attract people to live on H St
Aug 23, 2011, 1:43:00 PM
The most important thing for the larger streetcar system is to have high ridership on the H Street line. Ridership will depend on how easy it is to make the connection between the Metro and the streetcar. The NY Avenue Metro option will have the shortest transfer time and you will be able to see the streetcar station from the Metro.
Aug 23, 2011, 4:40:00 PM
In the NY Ave option, why bother coming back down to Union Station? If you are on the metro at Union Station just continue on to NY Ave and get on there. The segment between NY Ave and Union Station seems useless except for MARC and Amtrak riders.
Aug 23, 2011, 5:49:00 PM
dave b,
storage of the trains under the bridge.
Aug 23, 2011, 6:36:00 PM
arent they being stored in a car barn on benning
Aug 23, 2011, 7:48:00 PM
None of the three options are ideal.
I like the 2nd St option because it should be completed "quickly", is close enough to Union Station and EBZ coffeeshop. However, I do not feel like this supports the long-term development plans (if there are any). It seems like this is the quick fix.
I am ok with the 3rd St option going over to NY Ave Station because it connects directly to a metro Station. I also like the fact that it goes through Noma. However, as with the 2nd St option I am not sure how it supports the long-term plans. Also, this option is going to take much longer to complete.
I hate the H St option unless it goes into the parking garage. If it goes into the garage it will be more friendly for riders in the summer / winter and puts the riders closer to the Metro. If it just stops at the top of the bridge I think there will be significantly fewer riders. I can see how this option fits into the long-term planning.
The word verification is taxessa
Aug 23, 2011, 10:34:00 PM
The three options are terrible. I know lots of readers don't like riding the X2 (or don't like riding buses, in general), but the streetcar as proposed in the three options makes no improvement on the X2 route. In fact, it will only create more problems as the streetcar and X2 accordion buses jam up traffic and stop at every light and every street corner. I think the wisest thing for DDOT to do is to rip the tracks back out and forget about the streetcar. Or, leave the tracks in as a permanent reminder of how poor planning can end up costing lots of money without providing any benefits.
Aug 23, 2011, 10:47:00 PM
Thanks for sharing. I think the comments on the City Paper blog make it clear that A LOT of people think the H Street streetcar project is ill-conceived. To spend a fortune on a project that will not yield ridership is a monumental disgrace. I think the Dallas Observer said it best: Why should Dallas build a tiny, inefficient streetcar line when it's broke? Because trolleys are groovy. So think the H Street yuppies, anyway.
http://www.dallasobserver.com/2011-06-23/news/clang-clang-crunch/6/
Aug 23, 2011, 11:18:00 PM
and to think I've always put my basement forward as a "turnabout station," when, all this while, I should have been talking about "western endpoints." Just watch out for the north to south elbows and the eastern spikes. In any event, I have enough electricity for all comers.
Aug 24, 2011, 12:19:00 AM
I'm not a big fan of public transportation because it allows the type of people who ride public transportation to get to my neighborhood. Yuck!
Aug 24, 2011, 7:39:00 AM
I ride Metro almost daily, I once worked for a transportation and land use planning agency, and as the owner of a home 3 blocks from H I guess a streetcar might benefit me personally. But I don't understand the justification or need for a streetcar from 2nd or 3rd St. to the end of Benning Road. I understand there is a long range plan, but I think they should have picked a segment with more potential ridership to begin with. If this flops, which is a real possibility, the rest of the plan will probably never come to fruition.
Aug 24, 2011, 10:15:00 AM
i wish people would do some research before judging this project.
Aug 24, 2011, 10:53:00 AM
when one considers that Amtrak/CSX has nearly the same "permanent goverment" status as Bechtel and Halliburton/Brown and Root, it should come as no surprise to you that CSX was able to piss all over this..and no doubt delayed as long as possible to unzip before doing so.
Aug 24, 2011, 12:12:00 PM
Without a straight connect to Union Station, this project is a bust. If the proposals are temporary, maybe it's worth moving forward, but the streetcar needs to plug straight into the station underground or it will be a joke.
Have fun waiting for the streetcar in December!
Aug 24, 2011, 1:09:00 PM
I think waiting outside would be worse in january. I'm not going to research it though. Let's face it, it would betoo hard to know everything about everything if we did actual research.
tonyt
The pug
Aug 24, 2011, 3:45:00 PM
So much negativity, and a bunch of it from anons.
There was plenty of negativity when Metro was introduced, and people claimed there was bad planning. People bad mouthing the silver line. Ridiculous. Values and tax receipts on H have already increased a ton, other neighborhoods are clamoring for streetcars. Be forward thinking.
Aug 25, 2011, 11:03:00 PM
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