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Monday, June 25, 2012

More on the Proposed Spingarn Streetcar Ban

Learn about tonight's meeting on Storify. The Washington Times has a piece that lays out some of the objections to the location of the car barn at Spingarn. Please enjoy this gem from ANC 6C's own Tony Goodman:

33 comments:

Toni Kukoc said...

To paraphrase Debbie WashTimes, "Costco is our Prince Charming and the Springarn Car Barn is the Clap." Reasoned opinion piece Ms. WashTimes.

i give up on local papers said...

That was the worst written editorial piece I've ever seen.

Put the car barn in Union Station? Where in Union Station? Why does she seem to mix up the purpose of a car barn (car maintenance) with a transfer station? Sigh.

poo said...

i'm embarassed for that author of that opinion piece. wow.

just.... wow. do people even go to school for journalism anymore?

oboe said...

Put the car barn in Union Station? Where in Union Station? Why does she seem to mix up the purpose of a car barn (car maintenance) with a transfer station? Sigh.

Thanks for this. The same thing jumped out at me. The author is utterly ignorant about the purpose of the car barn, and presumably the H Street streetcar project general.

Whole lot of ignorance and misinformed resentment going on there.

Anonymous said...

this person has no idea what a car barn is.

Anonymous said...

You should see the Ward 5 listserv and the discussion of the car barn.

It appears that those who contribute to that conversation oppose the car barn for the sake of opposing.

oboe said...

Well, for the same reason they're opposed to "dog parks" and "bike lanes". And for the same reason old, white rural people are opposed to, say, urban welfare programs.

It's one of the strongest drivers in US politics: the fear that someone, somewhere who looks different than you might be getting something that you're not getting.

Robby Mann-Thompson said...

Inked:

I'm disappointed in your post of that tweet that mischaracterized the meeting. I understand you and other desperately want to see the Street Cars run. But your post and the use of that tweet show a bias on your part that hinders your credibility. You’re typically fair and unbiased, but here you seem to be contributing to a pernicious mischaracterized of the meeting participants and the meeting in general. As a participant and someone who’s expressed concerns about this issue since December, your actions show a sharp distain for me and for every attendee. You ought be ashamed.
oboe
“Well, for the same reason they're opposed to "dog parks" and "bike lanes". And for the same reason old, white rural people are opposed to, say, urban welfare programs.”


Oboe
Since I guess “They” means black here, take offense to your racist comments. You’re just spouting stereotypes. It’s sick.

-Robby

inked said...

Robby,
I would like to see the streetcars run. As you can see from my tweets, I consider this is problematic issue. I do want to see the streetcars run. I would prefer, to the extent that other sites are feasible, the the car barn occupy one of those. The problem with my own preferred site is that the streetcar tracks don't go down that far. If they build it at Spigarn, I'd like to see architecture more similar to that of the school.

Calling me biased is a knee jerk reaction, and doesn't make much sense if you look at the post overall. Here's what I posted:

1. A Storify piece that appears to me (based on Twitter and emails, as I could not attend the meeting) accurately represent what happened at the meeting.

2. A Washington Times story that is very critical of the use of the Spingarn, and that highlights some of the objections I've seen raised on the Ward Five listserv.

3. ANC Tony Richardson's tweet. This one seems to reflect the feelings of at least some meeting attendees.

So I don't think what I've posted is biased at all. I tried to provide an accurate narrative, but show that there are strong emotions and feelings of disagreement regarding this topic.

Frankly, if you are going to accuse me of bias, why not bother to address the other 2/3s of that post?

bing said...

isnt the proposed site on property owned by the city? unless building a structure that would be violating a zoning law or creating a public safety issue, how can it be opposed at all? Not saying Im for or against it, just making an observation and looking for some clarification. I was out of town and couldnt attend the meeting.

Anonymous said...

Robby --

Can you help me out? I got the sense that many of the people at last night's meeting who kept saying that the street cars will only benefit "newcomers" might have been using coded language. Am I correct in assuming that "newcomers" is a euphemism for "white devils"?

Anonymous said...

anon 2:50-

you are correct.

trinidaddy said...

2:50 - well then, call me lucifer!

Brian Bradford said...

Anon 2:50

You're assuming all newcomers to the city are Caucasian. Why is the city building a streetcar system that will operate at a loss when there are buses running the same route?

Robby Mann-Thompson said...

Inked:

Here’s the response to your demand:

2. A Washington Times story that is very critical of the use of the Spingarn, and that highlights some of the objections I've seen raised on the Ward Five listserv.

The story was before the meeting not about the meeting.

3. ANC Tony Richardson's tweet. This one seems to reflect the feelings of at least some meeting attendees.

And I responded countering that, and that was retweeted by you and a few others.

All:
As I wrote on the first post about this the meeting was about the Car Barn not about the street cars. I didn’t hear any one say new people or white devil, there was a man talking about electric busses. Anwar Saleem spoke about people getting involved with the design and over all streetscape improvement. CM Alexander echoed something similar. There was anger over the process or lack there of. So to cast the attendees as anything but concerned citizen similar to the Shell-No people is harsh and unfortunate, and disappointing.

Anonymous said...

Opposition to this site is short-sighted and frankly late to the party.

The fact is that DDOT has been discussing this potential location since November 2011, while Ward 5 still had elected representation, with the public at multiple public meetings.

Meetings were held in November with H St/Benning Rd businesses http://www.dcstreetcar.com/112..., in December with the general public and the mayor http://www.dcstreetcar.com/120..., with a public workshop in December http://ddot.dc.gov/DC/DDOT/Abo... and another meeting in April with the general public http://www.dcstreetcar.com/412.... Invites to these meetings were mailed, emailed and even done door-to-door at times. In addition, they have conducted a public survey specifically regarding the Car Barn facility https://www.surveymonkey.com/s.... Much of the details had been published in the press months ago (i.e. http://www.washingtoncitypaper... ).

Committee of 100 said...

I still don't want those nasty 1/8inch wires blocking my view of H Street Storage and the other historic buildings along H Street. What kind of ugly, short-sighted city installs streetcars in a historic city? Not in my backyard, which I've lived in for 3 years and will live in for another year before I move to the burbs so I can send my kids to white, er, better schools.

inked said...

Robby,
So you have no objections to the actual account of the meeting (my assumption since you ignored it)? You object to the story explaining the objections bk it only gives background & you object to Tony's tongue in cheek tweet bk you think his joke is inaccurate?

Anonymous said...

@Robby

All you every write about is race. Try to live a little without seeing the world as black and white.

While you criticize this blog, I would like to note that I took 2 minutes to look at your blog. I only spent 2 minutes there because there is nothing on it but a few stale pictures.

Maybe you should stop reading this one and work on your own.

Robby Mann-Thompson said...

Anon 5:14:

Actually DDOT did not go before 5B, as other developers do for projects in the Ward (not for the spingarn site). At the prior meeting at Wheatley they admitted that the Union Station idea was presented. They floated the Spingarn idea in November/December. DDOT confirmed there was opposition then. So how is it that this is late. If opposition is raised, and then DDOT disengages only to re-engage in April, there was opposition then as well, basically telling people it's a done deal is at best disrespectful and horrible PR.

Residents simply were not engaged sufficiently if at all. Costco, DC Brau, even Aldi did a better job. I can't even say this is normal for DC government DPR did a better Job with the Joe Cole Community Center and Park panning meetings. ANCs were engaged public input was taken into consideration.

Here, that wasn't the case. DDOT admitted to having to scramble to find an alternative. They admitted opposition early on and they just forced forward.


If the community was engaged like with other development projects with regularity, input being sought, and true outreach. I doubt the city would have gone forward with this plan with such an absence of buy-in.

No one went door-to-door to community members at the meeting that live right behind the planned facility. This outrage was present then.

Brian Bradford said...

@ Committee

Slow down on the sarcasm until you bone up on the facts. The opposition is to the location of the barn - not the 1/8" wires or the streetcars. Your jokes fell flat because you were too far off of the point.

Robby Mann-Thompson said...

inked:

There you go again. :)

I answered your two demands. Of course I disagree tony's tweet, I beleive I worte in response "not so..."

I have no idea what you mean by the actual account of the meeting (like Wiki - I don't ever think tweets tell the who story). I don't think any of us who were tweeting completely tweeted the meeting. If you like to know what actually happened, you can ask people who went.

That's that.

oboe said...

Since I guess “They” means black here, take offense to your racist comments. You’re just spouting stereotypes. It’s sick.

Since I guess "you're" means "all white people" here, I guess I'll just have to go ahead and ignore your pathetic race trollery. Yawn.

poo said...

racism is so marion barry and 1989.

it's about economic development.

i find it hilarious that many of you share your ignorant, biggoted points of view, simply to bitch about something.

go *do* something, people.

oh, and robby is an idiot, IMHO.

Tony Goodman, ANC 6C04 said...

Just a few quick points:

Tony Richardson is the other 6C Tony, and he was not at the meeting. He's the ANC Commissioner for 6C05, and I'm 6C04. (We also sit next to each other at meetings, so it can get confusing even for us!)

As for public outreach, DDOT has attended at least one ANC 6C meeting to provide a streetcar update, but 99% of the information was presented at the other public meetings over the past year instead of at ANC meetings. Anon 5:14's list of meetings is accurate - some of those were well advertised and held at the Atlas Theater.

DDOT certainly could do a better job of outreach on this project, but just because they take public comments and talk to the ANCs doesn't mean that can or will make changes. That doesn't mean that the process is flawed - it's just how it works.

Many people at the meeting were not aware of much of the information on power sources, alternative sites, etc. This information is available on DDOT's website, but if that many people are not aware of this, then I agree that's an indication that DDOT could do a better job at communicating with the public.

Overall, it was a great turnout of people who are clearly passionate about their community, and who really just want to be more involved in this public process. It's hard to fault anyone for that! Also great to see CM McDuffie in action, as well as CM Alexander.

Robby Mann-Thompson said...

oboe:


What are you ranting about now. You're means you are I probally miswrote it as I interchange your with you're all the time as I do their and there. You were the one being racial. And that's sad.

Tony Goodman, ANC 6C04:


While going before ANCs isn't perfect, posting things to the web really dosen't = good out reach. The reality is there is a digital divide. I communicated that to the Mayor's office about this in December. The outreach should have been better implemented. I highly doubt we would be at this point if citizens were properly engaged about the placement of the car barn.

I'm encouraged by the attention to this. Together we'll find a path forward.

inked said...

Robby,
I was referring to the first link in my post which had compiled a bunch of tweets from different people and put them into a coherent story line.

I totally agree that the outreach has not exactly been great. There are also issues with the location, as well as the design.

Tony Richardson,
Totally sorry. I was writing that comment at work, and I mistakenly typed the wrong name. I meant to write Tony Goodman (as reflected in the original post).

comittee of none said...

Where were the Committee of 100 and the same folks who are objecting to street car barn when the ugly 8th street strip mall on H street was being constructed? It sure adhered to historic building codes!

Anonymous said...

StantonSez:
To Robby, as best I can tell, residents feel put upon, not consulted, disrespected and not gonna take it anymore.
We aren't talking about some horrible strip club, juvie center, or jail being constructed in your midst.
It's a facility that from images provided will fit in with aesthetic quality of the historic school. I play Langston golf course and love it. I see nothing that will hurt the historic golf course.
As for effect on the kids at that school, doubt it. I've been there when rude teens run wild at the Langston club house (like so many kids of all income brackets do nowadays everywhere), so I wouldn't worry about how this will hurt their truancy.
Lastly, I would urge residents to work to improve the facility and help it integrate. If a setback will help hide it and preserve the view of the dirty corner stores and tire shop and you want that, then let's make it happen. I think it is a mistake to reflexively say NO because you don't feel adequately consulted.
Don't be like the "right size Hine" crowd, or the jerks that fought the Giant on Wisconsin for years, just because.
The new residents are here.
Opposing things because you think it benefits them is just plain silly, and it spites yourself just to make a point.

dog parks suck, parks are for kids said...

"Since I guess “They” means black here, take offense to your racist comments. You’re just spouting stereotypes. It’s sick.

Since I guess "you're" means "all white people" here, I guess I'll just have to go ahead and ignore your pathetic race trollery. Yawn."

You're means "you are", as in Oboe. And you never said who "they" refers to. You're assuming also that people opposed to dog parks, streetcars, and bike lanes are one and the same, which (1) you can never prove and (2) is absurd on its face. Someone could love dog parks and think the X2 is enough transit (or not care about public transit at all, streetcars included).

I personally support the streetcar and could care less if no dog parks are open anywhere in the world. LOL.

oboe said...

Just to address the dog parks question (rather than the "NO, YOU'RE THE RACIST!!" nonsense):

The reason you build a dog park is so that dog owners have a place to go so their dogs aren't crapping on, and destroying the grass of, general purpose parks like Lincoln Park.

The fact that the NPS doesn't enforce things like leash laws, and encourage dog owners to actually *use* the dog parks is a different matter entirely.

But building dog parks *is* pro kids. At least if supported by other policies.

oboe said...

You're assuming also that people opposed to dog parks, streetcars, and bike lanes are one and the same, which (1) you can never prove

Actually, a well-designed public survey could prove this (or disprove it) easily. My guess is that, while support for those positions would correspond somewhat with race, it would correspond very much with age and socioeconomic status.

Younger middle-class blacks seem likely to support things like streetcars/bike lanes/dog parks/etc... to the same extent as every other ethnic group in their age/economic cohort.

Rayful Edmond said...

I have nothing nice to say, so I'm not going to say anything at all.