I received an email today saying that, though the ANC has yet to see official plans, the H Street Connection may be entering its twilight days. Here's the scoop as I understand it:
-No leases are being renewed through 2009.
-An eight story building would replace the existing structure (interested parties can stand around and cheer while the crap that's there is knocked down).
-The new building will be built to the sidewalk, instead of having a big parking lot out front.
-We're talking mixed use. Retail on the first floor and offices and housing upstairs.
-Oh yeah, the proposed building has eight stories!
Get more info at the 6A zoning committee meeting Nov 27th (7pm at Sherwood).
Note the tall building (a retirement home) behind the Connection.
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UPDATE
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The developer is now going to be at the Nov 27th meeting instead.UPDATE
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68 comments:
that's WICKED COOL news, inked!
i may be able to attend. if i can wiggle the meeting in, i will!
can we video these meetings?
i'll definitely be one of the ones cheering the demise of that eyesore, and the riddance of the paycheck cashing place.
wow. this is monumental.
that place is the one single dumbest use of space on h street.
but it also means that nothing will be built there until 2013, considering all the restrictions and stuff that capitol place had to go through.
so... h street connection will be around for a while.
but this is still great news!
this is the single best posting of yours in the last 7 hours! ;op
"that place is the one single dumbest use of space on h street." You forgot the Auto Zone.
I'm glad to see it go, too, but I will miss the GameStop. Not necessarily because of GameStop itself (I don't particularly like the company), but it was nice having a video game store so close. I also got my Wii from there, so I'll always have fond memories. And Dwayne's a pretty nice guy.
But outside of that, yeah, tear the place down!
Unlike some ANCs, I'm pretty sure that 6A wouldn't object to video taping. They seem to really reach out to boost attendance/awareness.
I will miss Smile Cleaners though! Any other decent dry cleaners around here?
Absolutely! Try Madison Cleaners at 11th & H. They also do alterations on site. They are pretty fast.
now all we need to do is get rid of autozone and put a mixed used structure where the store and its massive underused parking lot is now.
or build a target on h street with underground parking.
*ducks anti-big box activists and runs out side door*
I know this is not for our neighborhood BUT traveling to 7th Street between D & E to Whole Foods is closer than P Street.
There is a petition requiring 2,000 signatures by Friday, October 12th. www.dcdna.org
It appears Doug Jemal is the developer attempting to get Whole Foods to Penn QTR.
The developer has delayed their meeting with ANC 6A until November 27th. Everyone is welcome to come to see the plans then.
The meeting will be held at
Sherwood Recreation Center
2nd floor
640 10th St. NE
7-9 pm.
I'll be sure to let Inked know so she can post again in November.
Drew Ronneberg
Chair, ANC 6A Economic Development and Zoning Committee
I dunno why everyone bitches about autozone, I go there all the time for parts. Also, just wait until that parking lot goes away and everyone who parks there on sat and sunday starts to park on I, G and further away in the 12th street area. Then you will see some bitching from the white folks.
Hurrah!
But now where will I buy my $0.79 bootleg of bootlegs martial arts movies, that come with subtitles in three languages?
Inked, please remind us before the November meeting, because I'd like to atted, but will probably forget by then.
re: Gamestop ... or the dry cleaner ... or Rite Aide ... or name any other H Street Connection store: it's not like there aren't any other vacant storefronts currently on H Street that they couldn't move into ...
Plenty of room in the inn
Anon 9:22, the autozone has been less than cooperative about non-autozone customers parking in the lot. I think that bar-goers can now park after 9pm but anyone who wants to park there for an 8pm show at the Atlas or the Playhouse is out of luck and will likely be towed.
"Bitching from the white folks"?
wow, where do I begin with a comment like that...
I sort of like the strip mall.
Its nice to park right there.
I go to the dry cleaners and to Rite Aide all the time. This hood is screwed up in a whole lot of ways and I don't think cheering the destruction of this building is really going to change much.
H street is ghetto.
Thats not going to change anytime soon.
last anonymous:
i'm speculating here, but i have a feeling you're not a brain surgeon.
Nov. 27? Don't they think a lot of people in the community will be out of town for the Thanksgiving holiday?
Of course everyone will be out of town for thanksgiving... this way their underwhelming developer driven overscaled out of touch building will get approved under the raydar!
Gotta love DC...
The destruction of a strip mall like H street Connection will change a lot. The less stores and restaurants that cater to a lower income the better for H Street. I seriously doubt that strip mall will be removed and replaced with a bunch of sneaker stores. For those who live/own in this area I can appreciate the excitement of H street connection leaving. It certainly should not stay just because it has a large parking lot!
Although I'm not a huge fan of any of the businesses in H Street Connection, I would like to point out that its occupancy rate significantly exceeds that of any other two-block stretch along H Street. Tearing it down and building something new over a 3-5 year span will displace existing businesses and create another abandoned stretch of H Street while the work is being carried out.
I'd be a lot more excited if developers were targeting properties that were currently vacant instead of focusing on one of the few places where you can actually find open storefronts during the week.
Huh. For once, I'm not cheering news of a new development project.
dearest mike:
i doubt they'd raze the connection and let it sit for a long time before building anything.
they'd likely raze it just before they start building.
sheesh!
Although I'm not a big fan of H Street Connection's design, I am wary of plans to replace it with an eight story building. This will dwarf the residential communities on 8th and 10th (including my house). I hope the ANC pushes for the developers to scale this back a bit and/or lower the building's profile at 8th and 10th. This revelation is definitely something of a shock to me. Develop H Street, yes. But turning it into downtown lite is not the answer. Others have expressed similar concerns with respect to developments toward the west end of H and I think they were right to fight for design changes. I hope we can do the same thing here.
It wouldn't surprise me if the eight story proposal is more of a bargaining position, sort of like the prices on a used car lot. The neighborhood will object through its reps (too tall! dwarfs the rowhouses! etc) and then the developer will show it's "good faith" by submitting a six story design, and so on through the approval kabuki dance. They can't start at six or seven stories, because then they might only wind up with four or five stories. At any rate, I'd be shocked if the final product was eight stories.
um... look at the huge bldg at 6th and h street.
anytime anyone uses the word 'fight' you KNOW you're in for trouble.
why don't residents 'work together' with developers?
sometimes i think people just wanna fight cuz it's "cool".
verbage is everything when it comes to getting what you want.
"fighting" is what you do for your life, not with a developer who is trying to improve the area.
gimme a break.
Ditto to everything that Mike and Omar said. I'm interested in hearing what kind of housing the developer is contemplating? Condos? Do we need more of those in this city?
The parking issue is a serious one. The area isn't close to the Metro and shoppers will continue to drive in. A large monstrosity with inadequate parking isn't necessarily an improvement over what is there now.
Also, this is my first time really reading through a whole page of posts, (my house is behind H street connection so this issue is of great interest to me) but I'm kind of surprised by the tone of some of the posters, especially by "poo poo". Poo poo, I hope that you are a brain surgeon or a rocket scientist, at least then there would be some logic behind your disdain for the other posters. Wanna tell us what makes you so smart?
Mani,
I agree that the site overall works much better (and is more enjoyable to read) when people are civil and respectful towards each other. Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you need to be rude or mean to them. I hope people will keep that in mind.
Regarding the height of the building. Eight stories is pretty taller (significantly taller than the buildings in the 600 block). I'm confident that 6A has its act together & can use other experiences (including those of 6C) on H Street to steer this project in the right direction and work with the developer to reach a mutually beneficial outcome.
I won't be sad to see the H Street Connection go. I think the structure is pretty hideous and doesn't fit the street well. I do use a couple of the stores (the Rite Aid in particular). There are definitely other places that something like Game Stop could go. But spaces the size of the Rite Aid? Not too many of those on H Street that are ready to go.
Regarding the parking issue:
The builders will be required to include at least some spaces for the residential units somewhere (I'm guessing in the back). I much prefer that the parking be hidden. And no, it is not exactly terribly close to the metro, but this thing is going to take some time to build & the street cars will, in theory, show up at some point and run right in front of it. Right now many of the shoppers are probably people who walk over from the surrounding neighborhood, or who arrive by bus (since 8th & H is such a major bus hub). There are commecial districts all over the city where it is a bit of a struggle if you want to park, but that's basically what you get if you take a city that was built largely before the rise of the auto and stick a whole bunch of people with cars in it.
brains.
Thank you Mani for calling out Poo Poo. He/She does seem to have a disdain for opinions different from their own. I just tossed it up as a bad case of constipation.
Area Homeowner (AH)
nope. no constipation.
i think it's funny how i say soooo many things in 'tongue and cheek', and all these uptight people jump on it.
i'll try and be more boring.
my apologies.
If it makes you feel any better, Poo Poo, I've always dismissed your posts...even before you owned up to their tongue-in-cheek nature.
Hope that helps!
I may have been too hasty in my earlier comment that the building would not ultimatley be eight stories. Doesn't the recently approved project in the 600 block of H street have a component that will be 90 feet tall? There may be different zoning issues at play.
Ok, we have mentioned the mall and the autozone. I personally hate the H street storage. Any word on its future?
I got two words.
PARKING GARAGE.
Yes, do retail and mixed use up top. But this is an unprecedented opportunity to put in a multi-level underground parking garage, even if the city has to cough up some cash for it.
H Street really needs a massive parking garage, and this is a golden opportunity to include one. BUT it needs to be very, very safe (tons of lighting and security), and it needs to affordable (hence the city funding).
mike-
kind of the way i find your posts self serving and sort of testy.
i don't dismiss your posts. actually, i find you hilarious.
i really think you should post more.
i dig your style. it's almost as bas as mine. :o)
think once, look twice....
and keep beating that 'occupancy rate'. cuz that's a really good one.
i'm sure it works from wherever you come from.
good luck, kiddo.
Whole Food??? I thought there was a petition circulating to recruit Trader Joe to this area. Whatever happened if anyone know?
Come on Mike and Poo poo. Lets hug it out. Tell you what....beers at The Pug on me. I'll be the guy with three Scaeffers. One for each of us!
I'm concerned about the bile against the paycheck places. I, too, think the H St. Connection is atrociously ugly -- but I'd rather focus on getting some businesses into the empty blocks instead of tearing down the one full block, and getting positive businesses in instead of kicking out "bad" ones (meaning ones that poor people use).
Especially since government "planning" is so involved. I mean, there's a little bit of a justice issue here, when various versions of eminent domain (including government subsidies and "planning") get used to tear down things the poor use and hand them over to the rich. Very nice to say these businesses can just move -- sounds like a comment from someone who's never tried to keep a small business afloat. If it were *so* easy (and cheap) to get into those empty buildings, maybe they wouldn't be empty.
But apart from social justice, I think it's in the interest of us yuppie white folk not to drive the poor black folk out. Doesn't help racial relations in the neighborhood -- or make the black kids on our block act any nicer to my wife and kids -- when they rightly believe that a lot of the white folks are looking to shut down the things they use (like check cashing, liquor stores, shoe stores -- also going after developers who build rental units, people who play dice outside, etc.). And it doesn't help the neighborhood to establish character when the newcomers are all in a hurry to chase the established folks out, and to make sure there are "less stores and restaurants that cater to a lower income."
Look, I think H St. Connection is an eyesore, too. I like Granville Moore's a lot more than Popeyes, I don't buy singles, I don't need wigs or cornrows or a nail job, and, thank God, I'm just far enough ahead on my rent that I can wait till the check gets to the bank before I use it. But I'd rather see us -- and our gorilla government -- use our energy to promote good things rather than going after everything that isn't quite yuppie enough.
The Whole Foods petition is for Gallery Place/Penn Qtr area. Not sure what is up with Trader Joes.
I agree. Poo Poo always has really bad posts.
poo was moderately funny when they first appeared here..but i think poo poo forgets that tone and sarcasm don't always translate well in this venue, and sometimes i think poo poo is just rude and sellf indulgent. lately i think poo has been posting just for the sake of posting and then probably spends hours checking to see if anyone posted back. in fact the last couple of weeks , i think poo poo may have been on some kind of drugs which led to poo poos nonsensical outbursts.
further i don't get the sense that poo poo attends too many of the meetings in which the events of h street are discussed.
But maybe-just maybe- poo poos problem stems from the fact that poo is not from Indiana or some other state that begins with an I.
Dogg:
I'm sure you mean well, but I think your concern about eminent domain is misplaced here. I don't believe eminent domain is being used to close down the H St Connection. In fact, if I'm not mistaken the H Street Connection was an artificial construct from the very beginning - developed by the H Street CDC, with taxpayer funds.
And your concern about 'social justice' is misplaced as well.
H Street Connection is a stunningly poor use of very expensive land. A suburban-style strip mall that is only one or two stories tall with a huge surface parking lot is just stupid in an urban setting. That's why it's being torn down and redeveloped (assuming this actually happens). And when it's redeveloped the retail will probably reflect what the neighborhood will support - I'd assume a mixture of neighborhood uses, like dry cleaner, the ubiquitous CVS, etc. If it doesn't reflect what the neighborhood will use, then the businesses will close and others better suited will open.
With one huge caveat....
What we need are decent neighborhood-oriented businesses. That's getting harder to do, in part because the DC govt has allowed doubling and tripling of commercial / retail / investment property taxes to go unchecked, thereby driving up the cost of maintaining a small business considerably. And rents are sometimes rising to ridiculous levels.
But that's not a 'social justice' issue. That's a retail economic surviveability issue. One that the city isn't addressing adequately.
But artificially requiring that such retail spaces remain what they are - shops specifically targetting low income shoppers just to prove how liberal and socially aware we are - isn't the answer. And it's not really economically feasible. And, ironically, it'll do nothing to make the neighborhood kids be any nicer to you.
As for 'things poor people use'...
People of all income levels get their nails done. People of all income levels buy shoes. People of all incomes buy wigs. It's just that so many of these shops on H Street suck. Not because they cater to a low income crowd. Because the merchandise sucks, the shop itself is filthy and poorly maintained, they allow panhandling, public drinking, etc.
There are, obviously, exceptions to this generalization.
Other businesses...
Check cashing places prey on the poor, charging obscene amounts of interest. They are a blight on communities and the community is better off when they are gone.
Liquor stores - most of the liquor and beer locations in this neighborhood are blights on the community. As they are run they contribute greatly to crime, panhandling, etc. I feel no loss if one or two of them are shut down. In fact, nothing retards the stabilization of a neighborhood like the poorly run corner liquor store.
You are right when you say it'd be nice if we preserved retail for everyone on H Street. But as it is so much of the retail on or near H Street is almost exclusively the domain of low income shoppers, in large part because of the quality of the merchandise and the experience. It's not just not yuppie - it actually sucks. Filthy and poorly maintained stores, rude and poorly trained personnel, substandard products, retail environments where public drinking and other behaviors are tolerated, etc.
Even IF H Street were to ever yuppify like you fear it's not like the very poor have no other choices. There are countless commercial strips in NE that are nothing but low income retail.
Last, neighborhoods change. H Street used to be much more of a middle class environment before it degenerated into what it is now.
A city or a neighborhood cannot survive if it caters only to the very poor. DC tried this for 40 years, under Marion Barry. He did nothing for the middle class.
Last (again), this doesn't break down along race lines as you suggest. Plenty of black people in the neighborhood would welcome a more middle-class and more useful shopping environment on H Street.
Amen, Hillman. I couldn't agree more!
Area Homeowner
Hope you're still reading, Poo.
Funny how sarcasm and things that are meant to be humorous fall flat when they're just words on the screen, no?
My last comment was honestly meant as a joke - a snarky joke, but a joke nonetheless.
Sorry you find my commments 'self-serving and testy' - though commenting on someone else's blog posts is pretty much guaranteed to be self-serving, don't you think? None of us are really performing a public service by sharing our opinions here.
As for occupancy rate - wouldn't you prefer blocks with more open stores than abandoned storefronts? That's all I'm getting at here, and I'm wondering why anyone would be opposed to it.
I honestly do think you contribute some good points to the discussion here, Poo, but your sarcasm sometimes makes it hard to take them the right way. Sorry to add fuel to your fire.
Regarding all the parking comments, I'm pretty sure a project such as the one that would replace the H street connection would include an underground parking garage with a portion of the parking available to retail customers.
Hillman, great post. Very well put. I couldn't agree more.
Thanks.
Anonymous:
I'm not talking about a parking garage just for use by patrons of that property.
I'm talking about a major parking garage, large enough so that people coming to H Street generally would have a place to park, while they go to H St restaurants, pubs, etc.
No parking lot. Walk or ride a bike or catch the bus. If you faciltate cars, you will get cars. This is a city with public transpo. With high energy costs, global warming, why in 2007 is it so hard for people to think to dump their cars? It is not just hippies who think this way anymore. Cars are for suburbia not the city.
"Cars are for suburbia not the city."
That's a bit elitist and unrealistic.
I'm guessing you are a single person, probably young and able-bodied, probably not a property owner with renovation requirements or someone that has to use a vehicle for work.
Suggesting that we all walk or ride a bike suggests to me that you are young and in good shape. Not all of us are. Walking or riding a bike isn't an option for everyone. And it also suggests that you have no concern about crime in your care-free walking and biking. If that's the case, you are kidding yourself, especially around H Street.
How about those that work for a living and must use a vehicle in that work? Like those in the construction trade? Or those whose job is not close to public transit?
Ever try to haul a refrigerator on the bus? Ever try to walk the extra five miles in the 'burbs past where public transit goes, to get to your job?
How about those that are, say, a family of four, with various schedules. To say that public transit works for all of them in all of DC is ludicrous.
For instance, exactly how do you want the mother of four to lug groceries for four home? Most people don't live a block or two from a grocery.
Sure, we should promote public transit as much as possible.
But this isn't New York, where one could adequately claim that most people can get by without cars. We simply don't have the public transit or density (and the accompanying easy access to daily life necessities) that New York has, and we never will. For instance, our cab system is wholly inadequate (try being a black man and using cabs as a form of transit on H Street).
Let's study the public transit options for H Street. You are a good half mile or more from a metro, sometimes more. Cabs in this area are unreliable. Yes, there is bus service. But it's hardly 24 hours a day, and contrary to popular opinion you can't do everything on a bus or go everywhere on a bus (again, try carting weekly groceries for four on a bus).
And do you really expect restaurant patrons and theatre patrons to ALL take the bus? Then wait for half an hour or longer after the performance to catch a ride home? On a dark, deserted H Street? That simply is not realistic, especially when public safety at bus stops in the area is a real concern. And demanding that everyone that visits H Street do so by bus will ensure that H Street never becomes a destination strip.
Yes, encourage public transit use. But also realize that vehicles are going to exist in DC, both because some need them and because some just prefer the luxury of a vehicle. Pretending that they aren't is short-sighted.
I recently accompanied a friend to H Street to get some quick dinner. As we got out of our car a group of trendy hipsters hanging out near one the bars started making snide comments about us driving.
What they didn't know is that my friend had a pretty serious medical condition that precluded him walking more than about half a block without severe pain. But, then, I guess they didn't teach that you don't automatically prejudge others in hipster school.
In short, encourage public transit. It's a good thing. But there's a fine line between encouraging public transit and being an elitist 'green' snob. Some in the 'ride public transit' community have become the latter. And like many hipsters, they don't even see the irony.
I've noticed several of my posts have been, well, a bit long. I'll try to limit that in the future.
group hug!
jeez... poo poo is nasty, poo poo is on drugs, poo poo this and that.
wow.
i'll be more polite if anyone can tell me where the largest dry cleaners in the world was located.
(yes, it's in your neighborhood)
circa 1937.
and no, i'm not on drugs, although that comment was VERY indicative of your thinking. bad experience in your history? i'm sorry. may ganesha bless you for your future. i'd give it a link, but you'll have to look up that god on your own.
anyway, i can't wait to see the place torn down, and hopefully, we'll have residents WORK with the developers, as opposed to FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT the establishment!
seriously, gimme a break.
or are you all pullin' each other's legs?
oh yeah, the indiana quote was funny. i'd love to get out there one day. sounds like a very interesting place. they might even understand my english as a second language.
bye bye goofballs.
There people on both sides talking about how happy they would be displacing all of the small businesses on the H Street Connection, only to tear down the mall for something truly orginal, like condos. Please.
I'm not a patron of half the shops in the mall (Why do we need two BoAs within a block of each other, anyway?), but I know that the stores I do shop patronize are gone forever if that mall closes. I have yet to see a Game Stop, or a Rite Aid for that matter in any other capacity than a retail environment similar to the Connection. I won't be sad to see the mall go, but I will be more upset to see the few places in the neighborhood go for the sake of urban renewal.
There's a pretty good chance this will blow up in the developers faces, and they end up not completing the job without our help through taxes , only to have the same damn check cashing laundromat dollar stores we have now, with an eyesore of a empty office above it.
8th and I:
I seriously doubt you'll see a check cashing store reopen there. DC City Council just passed legislation limiting the amount of interest these parasitic check cashing stores can charge, so the chances of new ones opening in DC are very slim.
8th & I,
you really need to explore a bit more. the 'BoA' on 10th & H is just a drivethru & walkup ATM. while the convenience of the drivethru atm will be missed, i'll manage somehow (i've probably only used it all of twice in almost five years, anyway).
hillman:
no one is suggesting the abolition of the automobile. your response is FAR too extreme. we do understand that there is limited parking on h and in the surrounding neighborhoods, so we are ENCOURAGING public transit use. i have never heard *anyone* on this site 'ridicule' car owners (point me to posts i missed, please). i own a car. i don't use it very often, but i do own one. yes, it comes in handy for transporting large objects & when you make a major grocery run. your criticisms of our local PT infrastructure are duly noted, but saying we will 'never' have a PT infrastructure proportionally equivalent to NYC (a much larger city) seems a bit defeatist...at the very least, we can get proportionally close (i.e. PT can better cover larger areas of the city). as for getting to the burbs, fyi, the PT system thru the suburbs surrounding NYC is not THAT much better than the PT in DC suburbs, IMO.
the best thing to do, on this site and in life generally, is to presume the person you're speaking to actually has good intentions and work towards a mutually agreeable solution. assuming the other side is a 'snob' is a terrible position to start a discussion from.
summing up: we need better PT. for sure.
"while the convenience of the drivethru atm will be missed, i'll manage somehow (i've probably only used it all of twice in almost five years, anyway)."
I've used that ATM once since I've been out on my own in DC, ten years to be exact. There's no reason why we can't have something there that will better suited for the community.
"I seriously doubt you'll see a check cashing store reopen there. DC City Council just passed legislation limiting the amount of interest these parasitic check cashing stores can charge, so the chances of new ones opening in DC are very slim."
Hillman, I think you missed my point. You see this type of development happen all the time in neighborhoods like ours. I'll take Brentwood's shopping mall as an example. What should have been a big box department store turned into a low-end outlet store and plenty of the same crappy sneaker stores we've come to know and love. The developers don't mind what stores actually make into the strip malls, because they get their kickbacks and "incentives", while we are left with 30 choices to purchase our next Yankee hat and white tees, or even better, dollar toothpaste.
Alan:
I was careful not to call this particular poster a green snob. But, honestly, I have seen this attitude before, and it is elitist. And I seem to hear the 'car owners are scum' more and more from a very greener-than-thou contingent on H Street.
My post was meant to address the extremist anti-car philosophy, in large part because if we accept the flawed premise that H Street will develop without addressing vehicle and transit safety issue then we are doing ourselves a huge disservice. If you interpreted that as an overly harsh attack then I am truly sorry.
Hillman, too much talky, talky, not enough walky, walky. Your life and most Americans is centered around a car. You cannot see that yes, there are exceptions like people on medication who can't walk or ride a bike, but can you see how ridiculous your example of "how do you haul around a refigerator" is? How many times in your lifetime do you really need a truck to haul around a refrigerator? Home Depot rents trucks for $20 an hour.
You will never get it. But in twenty years people will look back and laugh at how we were overweight people, that insisted on driving our expensive to run, air polluting cars, everywhere.
You got me all wrong. Your assumptions stink. I am 35, married, two kids and live on Hst.
My bad, own my building on Hst.
I must say that the following comment near the top of the page by Windows - "The less stores and restaurants that cater to a lower income the better for H Street." is exactly the type of ignorant pompousnous that makes us gentrifiers so despised in the neighborhood... Your arrogance is exactly what the neighborhood does NOT need.
It reeks of privilege, and to dismiss businesses that serve the current majority of the community in favor of establishments that satisfy YOUR definition of "improvement" is arrogant at best. Shame on you.
Hstrez:
I'm glad you responded.
Your initial post wasn't promoting public transit's virtues, of which there are quite a few.
It was lecturing us that we all had to walk, ride, a bike, or take the bus, and castigating anyone that had the audacity to have to have a car.
You listed no exceptions.
And your followup post was more of the same, with one rather limited 'people on medication' caveat.
I'm glad it works for you. I truly am. But you really aren't in a position to lecture me because it doesn't work for me.
Simply put, a carless existence isn't a viable option for many people. You pretending that it is doesn't make it so.
And a carless H Street, especially as long as we have high crime, is simply not going to happen. If you got your way and people were forced to never bring a car to H Street you'd see H Street abandonded to street thugs and drunks within months. Every business would close. Except maybe the liquor stores.
As for hauling refrigerators (or other heavy items), I do it about twice a week, sometimes more. Again, you made no exceptions for things like people that must have vehicles for their work.
Then, you follow up with this:
"You will never get it. But in twenty years people will look back and laugh at how we were overweight people, that insisted on driving our expensive to run, air polluting cars, everywhere."
And this...
"Your life and most Americans is centered around a car."
How exactly do you know this, about me in particular?
And, incidentally, 35 is young. Come back to me when you're 75 and see how you feel about walking and riding a bike everywhere you go, as you insisted that we all must do.
Hstrez:
More to the topic at hand.
You started by saying 'no parking garage'.
If you actively discourage the building of parking facilities on H, I don't want to hear you ever complain about people parking in the residential areas around H.
And I don't want you ever complaining that businesses aren't flourishing on H Street.
Hillman, you talk too much.
Raise your hand if you honestly think that the car-driving bargoers on H Street--and the mythical future patrons--are actually going to pass up a free, open parking spot on any one of the residential streets around H Street and go for the $5-an-hour parking instead? Okay, now wake up from your dream, and what's your real answer?
Honestly, most people patronizing the hot spots on H Street are not really going to pay to park. Even on a busy night at the Atlas, some of the Mercedes-driving crowd from Northwest pay for valet, but plenty don't. Plus, all the bar goers don't, and I bet you they won't, either. Newsflash: they don't in Adams Morgan, they don't in Dupont Circle, they don't in Gallery Place and they don't at the clubs near New York Ave. Dupont Circle and Gallery Place are the most telling: they both have copious underground parking available nearby, but everyone's still looking for free street parking all the time. That's why all those neighborhoods are a nightmare to park in Thursday to Sunday nights. It's human nature to always look for free street parking first. If you think a parking garage is going to solve that, I've got a bridge I want to sell you.
Even so, somehow, Adams Morgan and Mt. Pleasant have been surviving--even thriving--without a parking garage and without their own real Metro stations (I'm sorry, but "Dupont Circle/Adams Morgan" is not near Adams Morgan). Admittedly, comparing the vibrancy of those neighborhoods to H Street only goes so far--they became interesting because of virbant immigrant populations, not vacant storefronts--but it just goes to show that thriving neighborhoods and shopping can exist without a Metro and without a parking garage.
You can go ahead and build the parking garage, but the street parking will always get filled up first, and there's no correlation between parking garages and a vibrant street. In fact, the dead space that the garage (or its entrance/exit ramp) creates will harm the street by breaking the street rhythm and gobbling up retail space.
For the drivers of the world, be aware that, in this 21st century, it is possible to have use of a car without using it every day to get around. Check out Zipcar and Flexcar. They're all over the Hill, with at least 2 locations within 1/2 block of H Street. So you can get out of your car and walk, ride a bike, or take the bus or Metro.
If you're still driving to H Street, it's probably safer to get out of your car there than other parts of the Hill. H Street gets more than its share of the blame for crime. The muggings on H Street may be more spectacular, but I and people I know (and others I don't know) have been mugged on E Street, F Street and G Street coming from Union Station far more frequenlty than anyone getting mugged on H Street. It's true, the occasional baseball player girlfriend cashing $10,000 checks at dirty check cashing places with the skanky vagrants out front grabs the headlines. However, I know more people that have gotten seriously pummeled in "nicer" parts of the Hill. H Street looks rough-edged, and the people aren't as classy, but I actually feel safer getting out in front of the Pug than getting out of a car in the 300 block of F at 10 p.m.
Finally, stop knocking the Popeye's on H Street! I hate fast food in general, but even I have to admit that the current manager at the H St. Popeye's seems like a very polite, consciencious guy, and he makes sure his store prepares its food with a shocking amount of care. The couple of times I had to eat there (it was either that or Horace and Dickie's, the most over-rated food place in DC), I was disturbed at how good it was.
Lastly, anyone who thinks ANC 6A hasn't tried to "work with" developers instead of "fighting" them clearly has never been to a meeting with said developers. Developer's smiles quickly disappear when anyone tells them they should change anything but the color of their multi-million dollar project. Then, they get nasty and pull out the high-priced lawyers, especially when it becomes clear they're not going to pul the wool over the eyes of a scrappy group of residents like ANC 6A. So, like it or not, the I-can-do-what-I want attitude of most developers usually turns development changes into a fight. Witness the recent 200 H St. meetings--I had never seen adults so red and angry!
Hstrez:
That's it? "You talk too much"?
I was really hoping for a substantive and informative explanation of your views of why H Street should only be available to those that meet your narrow transportation criteria.
But I guess I was hoping for too much. But, then, your premise was sortof unsupportable, so I can understand why you bailed on the discussion.
Walker:
I wish I'd thought of your fairly clever name.
Who knocked Popeyes? True, they've got the heinous bulletproof glass, but I can't blame them. And they work very had, much more so than the Popeyes on 8th.
Sure, people will look for free street parking. If it becomes that big of a problem, petition to have the residential streets for Zone 6 parkers only, 24 hours a day. That would help.
But parking right next to commercial strips is going to be bad. I hate to say it, but if you live or bought next to a major commercial strip and thought street parking would always be plentiful you weren't anticipating the obvious.
Yes, commercial strips can get by without parking garages. But that's not the same as saying they can live up to their full potential without them.
And Adams Morgan does have a garage. In the 2400 block of 18th St. Apparently it fills up every weekend night and some weeknights. Imagine how much worse street parking would be there if all those people parked on the street.
And isn't there another one at T and Florida? And plans for yet another?
I'm not saying we shouldn't encourage public transit. We should. But to say we shouldn't build a parking garage if given the chance is to artificially limit the potential of H Street, and it guarantees the worst possible street parking.
As for crime, saying other areas are high crime isn't the same as saying H Street is safe.
Hillman, I won't argue with you because I find your thoughts simple.
Oh, HStrez:
Go ahead and admit it. You made a blisteringly stupid proposal and basic common sense shot it down. That doesn't mean you are a bad person - just that your idea was stupid.
If you'd care to post intelligently on the topic, please do. But just saying my points are 'simple' isn't the same as actually mounting an argument of your own. Let's assume for the sake of argument that my posts are 'simple'.... whatever that means. How does that stop you from posting a smart, beautifully moving post explaining how H Street will be a wonderland once all the cars are removed.... you know, after us car owners just stop our whining and live more like you do?
Hillman & Hstrez:
This city is ripe for redevelopment to a less car-centric culture. Alas, it takes a long time and lots of political will. I respect your sentiment, and that of Hstrez as well. Both of you make valid points, yet shortsighted points. I truly wish generalizations on both sides would make way for intelligent discourse.
While it may be true you need to haul a refrigerator every 3 days, the vast majority of DC residents do not. Because your friend cannot walk a few blocks does not mean this is the norm. For most, a trip of 1 mile or less is easily accomplished on foot or by bicycle. For longer trips or those requiring cargo capability, there are numerous options. Small motor vehicles (like the electric cars scooting around the Solar Decathlon on the Mall right now) are one solution. I recall two years ago seeing two UMd students carrying building supplies to their GEM car at the Hyattsville, MD Home Depot. The next week, they were at the farmer's market in Riverdale buying groceries. Bicycles can be even better. Ever seen a Dutch bakfiets or transportfiets?
I hate to trot out the European example as so many anti-auto zealots tend to do, but it's worthy to note here. Copenhagen, Denmark was not always the cycling city it is today. Neither is it totally flat, or always privy to good weather. In 30 years they've gone from extremely auto-centric to 32% of workers commuting by bike on a daily basis. There are numerous other examples across the globe (The Netherlands, Brazil, Italy, Germany). Such transitions are possible and actually make sense when viewed in the proper context.
You seem to be the logical type; check out Creating a Bicycle Culture for nice background on Copenhagen's transition. Of course our city is a little hillier and our people in less than optimum physical shape, and the roads themselves are designed for cars and not for human-scale transportation. None of this means it cannot be done, and that there may not be a time in the next 20 years requiring society to adjust in this way. It's time to think big.
Reminder about tonight's (Tuesday, Nov. 27) meeting...
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