It's sad to see local government strong arming a small franchise owner who brought a bright clean store to a empty dark space. I feel for them. That store is the best run 7-11 I've been to. It will be a sad day when they are forced out but that's what that SMD ANC seems hell bent on doing. Politicians should not use governement as a tool to arbitrarily harm people, and their livelihoods. There is no defense for this overeach. There was trash on H before, and will continue to be long after tis ANC's attack is over. This seems to be a targeted attack aimed at this one store.
So, the problem with people who go to 7-11 taking the 5 seconds to put the bones in a trash can like um...say, classy citizens with manners is just, well, I guess, a pipe dream because why would anyone use a trash can like a grown up or why would anyone have manners or why would anyone think that was remotely not the responsibility of 7-11 to be their mommy. It obviously is, its not possible to believe it could be the responsibility of the chicken consumer.... ANC Idiots. Oh and the other chicken places on H street and Benning, well, they have no issues with trash or vermin, simply none. I guess 7-11 is the rat capital of DC. Oh,and for all the neighborhood dogs that are going to die from choking--you are supposed to have your dogs on a 4 ft. leash (borrowed this from another post), so maybe again it goes back to RESPONSIBILITY! I know based on the general state of this neighborhood that is a hard concept, but can somebody for the love of god stop this BS.
Agreed, the guys at 7-11 are a great addition to the neighborhood and have turned a desolate stripmall space into a bright and shiny store with essentials that were previously unavailable close by. This ANC is out of control and should be happy that people are willing to invest rather than playing God in order to speed along their gentrification agenda.
I personally saw Drew taking pictures inside that 7-11 with their permission and having someone record who buys what while shopping there solely due to the wings issue. Both the owners and the workers there are great people and care about the neighborhood, not because they live here but that they are decent people. Why doesn't the ANC get more people to clean the streets?
I love how the ANC is up in arms over the 7-11 but apparently doesn't give two wet craps about the ignorant pieces of trash who are too lazy to find a garbage can after they're done eating.
How about the ANC pushing the D.C. government to make littering a $500 fine, no warnings.
I saw someone getting arrested behind the 7-Eleven on my way home tonight. The sooner that place goes and the construction starts for the new development, the better.
$500 fines for littering wont do shit because well, the chicken-bone-littering people dont have $500. That is why they eat chicken from 7-11. So then, what are you gonna do, put them in jail? Make them do community service? If they don't do that put them in jail? Jail is too expensive so I guess we'll just have to give them a criminal record? Surely that will be a deterrent as these people don't want to ruin future job prospects?
There is a certain segment of society that are just pieces of shit whose situation is so bad that they there are no consequences for anything they do. Hopefully a moderate amount of gentrification gets rid of them. However we might just have to deal with it unless WMATA seriously redraws the bus map to make 8th and H not a major intersection of Anacostia and Ward 7.
An aside: I once saw a piece of shit spitting sunflower seed shells out on the floor of a 90/92 bus. Has to be a top 3 WTF moment in my life.
Thank you frozen tropics for getting me riled up before bed
As one who is fortunate to work in va where plastic bags are plentiful and free with purchase of anything, instead of foregoing the bag for green purposes I will accept the bag, provide the company with advertising by carrying said bag, save the bag and use it to pick up a piece of trash (real not figurative) on my way home like I see dog owners do with poop (so I don't get certain disease that is rampant in dc) and deposit it in a garbage can that most certainly will not be the one in my house
i dont have a good memory. usually my favorite movie is the last one i've seen.
however, the repeatedly conscious action of doing it over and over again elevates it's WTF status over a more outrageous instantaneous act. it's just illogical. where does that person think those seeds are going to go (some goes for any litterer)? there is no goal for this crime, like say stealing? i can understand that. littering blows my mind
7-Eleven has changed its business model a lot in the past couple of years and now they rely on the sale of fast food items like pizza, hot dogs, burrito roller, taquitos, chicken tenders and chicken wings for a significant percentage of their revenues (http://www.7-eleven.com/Category.aspx?CategoryId=3002000) . All of these fast food items are sold in containers, many of which become litter on neighboring streets. You can tell when trash comes from 7-Eleven because they have their name and logo on the containers. Check out the 700 and 600 blocks of 10th St NE, where you will see what I mean.
7-Eleven generates significant quantities of trash because it is a fast-food establishment. That is why Zoning Regulations requires that fast-food establishments require zoning relief. The ANC's argument is that 7-Eleven is a fast-food establishment and should be classified as such.
Does this mean that ANC 6A is trying to shut down the business? No. It just means that 7-Eleven would have to apply for zoning relief through a public process where issues like trash mitigation are discussed.
ANC 6A is not targeting 7-Eleven -- unpermitted fast food establishments have been a reoccurring issue for our neighborhood. Our ANC also appealed Blimpie's and Cluck-U Chicken's Certificate of Occupancy (C of O) for the same reason.
The other issue is that the ANC only has 60 days to appeal a C of O from when it is first issued. Other establishments on H Street are clearly operating as fast-food establishments but the window for appealing their C of O closed long ago.
If new establishments open in ANC 6A that meet the definition of a fast food establishment but are not permitted as such, by all means the ANC should appeal their C of O. Contact me personally if you feel this is the case. There is nothing special about 7-Eleven in that regard.
Small-minded, myopic opposition to what is otherwise a positive, contributing member of the community does nothing more than discourage other would-be business owners from opening in the area.
Am very disappointed to hear of this opposition to a neighborhood (and, neighborhood-owned) business.
Betcha P & C market wouldn't have a problem opening on H, even though a lot of their income is really excellent pre made sandwiches, pastries, coffee and ice cream. The real issue is that 7-11 appeals to the wrong demographic.
Thanks Drew for your comments. I agree with you 100% and if we allow 7-11 to get away with not being classified as a fast food establishment, then others will come in and do the same. Robby's opening comment stated, "Politicians should not use governement as a tool to arbitrarily harm people, and their livelihoods. There is no defense for this overeach." I appreciate your interest in neighborhood improvement and the livelihoods of ALL of us on H St. You're doing exactly what I want my elected officials to do. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for taking time to address this Drew. and yes, currently 7-11 does appeal to the wrong demographic- people who litter in my neighborhood. If there were Dean & Deluca wrappers all over my street I'd be on their case as well.
What is wrong with fast food? Would there be the same issue if it were Dean and Deluca or Au Bon Pain, I doubt it. This is a thinly veiled stance by the ANC to remove the "bad element" when they should be focused on making this an attractive place for new business. With more businesses open there would be more tax money available for an H St. BID which could then employ people to keep the streets clean. Why are they limiting what type of places can open when there are still a ton of empty store fronts? MORONS!
It appears as though 7-11's only mistake is using 7-11 wrappers and containers. Their committment to advertising seems to be damning evidence. The odd thing is that the more damning evidence there is the better the advertising. Nobody is going to see a 7-11 wrapper in a trash can.
Anyway, what are the implications of them being classified as fast food? I know you mention trash mitigation agreements, but what they hell is that actually? How is it enforced?
I see where you have to start regulating at some point, but it seems like the toothpaste is out of the tube on this one and 7-11's trash is just a drop in the bucket.
Really, the best we can hope for is to just pick up other people's trash and maybe they see it and are embarrased they littered
I live a block from this 7-11 and couldn't agree more with Drew and the ANC. This is clearly a fast-food restaurant and should be required to go through the appropriate permitting process.
Thanks, Drew for weighing in and for helping out here. We don't need any more fast food spots in our neighborhood and we need more people like you who will do something rather than just post anonymous comments on blogs.
From the posts here, what every one wants changed is the behavior of those who toss their liter onto the streets. Regardless of the justification by a heavy handed ANC or the residents who live next to the 7-11; changing permits and regulating a business to closure will not change the behavior of the offenders. What's the best way to effect change in the undesired behaviors?
If 7-11 is operating as a fast food joint, which requires compliance with certain regulations, I don't see why the ANC's effort to gain compliance is so controversial. ANC haters, is your love of big gulps and stale taquitos ruining your judgment?? I guess the ANC should turn a blind eye if a place you like is skirting the rules. Sweet. ANC, please stand down if dejavu, spearmint rhino or some other such reputable business tries to open near anyone's house but mine. Thanks!
Capitol has the right of it. Its the behavior of some that causes the problem. However, I don't understand how the process Drew mentions will address the chicken bone et al problem stemming from 7-11. Especially since there are other fast food places that can supply the chicken bones.maybe 7-11 should raise the price of their chicken so that that element of people won't buy their chicken and then throw the bones on the ground.
You’re rationale is understandable, yet you execution is what seems misplaced. You’re seeking to make an example of 7-11 because you missed the window on others. You’re their elected official so I presume you constituents agree with your crusade, now think of what will happen when 7-11 closes because they can’t afford or sustain a prolonged zoning and legal challenge. Think of the people you will be adding to the unemployment rolls. You have the power to actually ruin people’s lives. While, I don’t think it is your intent to do this, you are ending up being what people seem to disgust most about government intervention. Per the article if they agreed to sale only boneless wings then all would be okay. So this zoning issue is all folly. There seems to be no virtue in your position other than that you didn’t get what you wanted, so you’re breaking out the hammer.
Then you go on to say well, there is trash all over, but because we can identify 7-11’s trash we’ll go after them. Isn’t that, well, arbitrarily going after the low hanging fruit? There is a larger problem, and reclassifying them as a fast food restaurant won’t solve it. I am all for process, but I am also looking at the outcome. Let’s say like McDonald’s they become a fast food place, and like McDonalds their patron’s litter the streets. Then what? You will risk bureaucratically shutting down a business to end up back where you are. Or worse they make the business decision to leave, and there’s a vacant space. Lost tax revenue and all of the problems associated with vacant spaces.
Procedurally, you may have a valid point, and it will ripple across the city. Practically, you may end up no better off.
Just food for thought, I know you’ve made your decision.
"We don't need any more fast food spots in our neighborhood" -----------
except a burrito place, some better pizza, and a sandwich place that is open consistently (unlike PWI) and that actually has the items on its menu (unlike Taylor, though they seem to be improving). we could use a falafel joint too (maybe Souk can get on that).
we probably just need more dogs to eat the chicken bones. i once saw a chesapeake bay retriever house like 5 wings, bones and all, and i think it turned out ok. so if you are dogn shopping, get one of those
Why should 7-11 receive special treatment? If they are a fast food establishment, why shouldn't they be subject to the same regulations as other fast food establishments?
The fact is that zoning regulations requires that fast-food establishments require certain zoning relief. 7-11 is a fast food establishment masquerading as a convenience store. For God's sake look at their website. If the store closed beecause 7-11's business model is disingenuous in describing itself as a convenience store so be it. That would be 7-11's fault, not the ANC or a majority of local residents who actually like our laws enforced. Similarly, anyone who litters should be fined.
Can somebody please specifically describe to me wtf getting them classified as fast food will do? WTF is zoning relief?
I know there is some 15% rule or something, but when I look at 7-11, I don't see it as a fast food joint? Do they even have cooking equipment besides a microwave, hot dog rollers, and red lights?
As I understnd it, fast food establishments are restricted under the H Street Neighborhood Commercial Overlay (google it dude...its laid out cleary in DC regs, as is the defintion of fast food establishment). If one wants to open fast food in this area, the Board of Zoning Adjustment must grant them a waiver (that is what the ANC is opposing). Without a waiver no certificant of occupancy and thus they can't open.
Does anyone know what a "bear" is? I heard that this 7-11 was a "bear 7-11" and when I googled "dc bear 7-11" I got this: http://www.dcbearscene.com/2010/09/23/bear-7-11-to-hold-grand-opening-event-friday/
Robby, as usual, you're full of it: "Think of the people you will be adding to the unemployment rolls. You have the power to actually ruin people’s lives." I would be willing to bet the vast majority of us who paid $500K for our homes around the 7-11 are WAY more concerned about our property values then keeping 10 people employed at the 7-11. On this, I support the ANC and all they are trying to do to bring the 7-11 into compliance.
Did the 7-11 owners not do their homework or did they intentionally usurp the fast food process thinking no one would notice?
Bad element? There are 7-11s in Dupont, U Street, Barracks Row, etc. I don't think people equate 7-11 as catering to the wrong "element." I think they have legitmate concerns with the trash issue. However, its not 7-11's fault that people are lazy. As a resident on K street, I frequently have to pick up trash from lazy people walking to and from the bus stops who decide they can't wait until they pass a trash can. Some people just have no pride in themselves or their neighborhoods. That is their issue, not 7-11's.
I do think that most of the time Robby is "full of it" but I strongly disagree you having a go at him. Robby brings up some very good points and has not resorted to name calling or harsh remarks.
How would your property value depreciated with the 7-11 at present? I would think the value would suffer due to the lack of commercial development and living beside an EMPTY shopping center.
Not having a concern for those "10 people" working or not is a very messed up attitude. Those people belong to this neighborhood like the rest of us, they are giving back also. Those "10 people" can be unemployed, then they can be "those 10 people" breaking in to cars/houses. They can be "those 10 people" sucking the welfare/social services dry.
Just like some others have said, maybe you can pick up some of the trash and hope that the trash situation gets better. The trash has been an issue before 7-11 and it will be an issue if they close.
The alleged sexual orientation and/or sub-culture of the owners if not at issue here. To even bring that up really is unfortunate. Regardless on where you stand on this issue please let’s not resort to that kind of stuff.
Just saw this on twitter. 7-11 is not a good neighbor. Guarantee that lady does not live within a couple blocks of 7-11 and wasn't walking past on her way home from dinner at Atlas Room either.
getloosenow Scene at 7-11 on #HSt last nite: Lady cussed out #MPD officers for 30 mins, dropped trou and defecated on the ground, then ran. #urbanliving
I get the technicalities of wanting them to be a "fast-food" restaurant, fine, and why some people pursue strict interpretation arguments regardless of actual intent. But even if that succeeds, then what is to be done about the LITTERING? That's the real problem regardless of the semantics about 7-11 and zoning relief. The amount of fast food items sold will not stop lazy people from littering and there is no mathematical proof it will mitigate the amount of littering. You would have to randomly sell your allowed amount of food to exact type of group that was previously buying it at the higher allowed rate--who is going to run that experiment? Perhaps the first 100 people in the door will all be litterers, zoning relief or not. I hate the trash I see around H street, I would much prefer that this issue brought that to light and that it truly did become a topic of discussion with our "elected officials" instead of them going for semantic arguments because they know where to find the person they are arguing with. I know those litterers can be awfully slippery. No littering signs, done tastefully and artfully, or even positive motivation signs about not littering could be very nice.
Love the 7-11, the staff and the owners seem very nice.
The place is always clean and well stocked.
They have milk and a slice of pizza when I dont feel like cooking.
They clean up their surrounding area constantly.
It is small potatos going after 7-11, how about a citywide 5 cent deposit on beverage bottles, now that would have a major impact on litter if that is what the ANC is trying to do. To bad they are doing it in a convoluted way vice a reasonable way.
So what is being done about the multiple fast food places that have trash and such all over the north side of H between 7th and 8th. The new sidewalk is already ruined and covered in trash 24/7.
Since some wise ass told me to "google it dude", I did. Really all I was expecting and answer like "7 Eleven employees must pick up litter once a day in a one block radius".
Something functional like that doesnt appear to be in the plans.
Instead the H Street Overlay I was toll to look up includes a bunch of bullshit that will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to stop or clean up customer littering.
Here is the H St Overlay: ====================== (c) Fast food establishment or food delivery service provided:
(1) No part of the lot on which the use is located shall be within twenty-five feet (25 ft.) of a Residence District, unless separated therefrom by a street or alley;
(2) If any lot line of the lot abuts an alley containing a zone district boundary line for a Residence District, a continuous brick wall at least six feet (6 ft.) high and twelve inches (12 in.) thick shall be constructed and maintained on the lot along the length of that lot line;
(3) Any refuse dumpsters shall be housed in a three (3) sided brick enclosure equal in height to the dumpster or six feet (6 ft.) high, whichever is greater. The entrance to the enclosure shall include an opaque gate and shall not face a Residence District; and
(4) This use shall occupy no more than twenty-five percent (25%) of the linear street frontage within the HS Overlay District as measured along the lots that face the designated roadway; -----------------------
Before I was in a "Hey maybe the ANC is actually trying to get something done, but I just don't see what"
If this is what they are enforcing/trying to accomplish, it is total bullshit at least in regard to littering and chicken bones
This is such a fascinating discussion of an issue that brings up so many other gentrification issues! Dog people who are sick of chicken bones everywhere. white gentrifiers. Black residents who have been littering for decades and don't plan to change ... and who love chicken. People who want Starbucks instead of 7 11. etc etc...
Apparently the receipts show that this store is significantly under the 15% cut off for fast food sales, so I'm not sure what the big deal is- or how their license can be revoked or modified.
The littering is the issue here people, not the zoning! They AREN'T a fast food restaurant, at least by the 15% rule.
Cant the people who are paid to stand around smoking on H Street.... I mean paid to clean H street... somehow do a better job of picking up litter?
In the defense of litters, many of them were never taught NOT to litter. I once confronted a teenage girl for littering, and she said "But I put it in the tree box!" She thought that was the proper thing to do. She probably witnessed her adults littering every day of her life.
We need some basic anti-littering education, as ridiculous as that sounds to those of us whose parents raised us well!
Someone asked about bears, I edified said person. Not that I give a sh*t about the orientation of the owners.... Although I do think that gay males tend to care a bit more about cleanliness.... Seriously. Anyway, I have to say that the owners were obviously perceived by some as 'bears'.... DuRing their opening..... TheY wanted bears around.... Maybe this is a gay rivalry thing? Is drew gay? The mystery deepens......
Honestly, this whole thing just seems like a convoluted attack against one particular business (or, more worrisome, a personal attack against one particular business owner), and the "fast food zoning" issue just happens to be the ANC's weapon of choice.
Here's my take on it:
The store itself is nice. Honestly, probably one of the nicest 7-Eleven's I've ever been to. It's bright, it's clean, it's well-stocked, and the staff is incredibly friendly. Compare this to the dreadful 7-Eleven on 8th and Maryland, and it's literally night and day.
The store itself is owned and operated by guys from the neighborhood, and the staff is almost entirely made up of people who live in the H Street/Trinidad area, as far as I can tell. It's bringing jobs to the area in the middle of a recession. Also, it's yet another new business on H Street, during a time when many of us are celebrating the opening of any new business along this corridor.
Every time I've gone in there, the store has been pretty busy. I have to imagine that the numbers there are pretty good, so it's presumably bringing in quite a bit of tax revenue.
Everything I've seen and read about this, I really can't help but feel like it's a witch hunt. I wish the ANC would just let it operate in peace.
Can you please tell us how zoning relief will stop the litter? I've been asking all day and the only help I got was being redirected to the H St overlay, which as far as I can tell, if 7-11 complied with would still not do anything to stop someone from littering two blocks away.
If you were to outline what you want 7-11 to do, how that would stop litter, and by what authority you can ask them to do so, you probably could have stopped this discussion 20 posts ago and probably sway people to your side
I second Dave B's question: i'm also confused as to how the hell this process that Drew is pushing for will stop litter. I'm all for process and everyone playing by the rules, but what does that have to do with addressing litter? Please be specific.
How is it that even Robby's good points get lost in his need to demonstrate that his greatest contribution to this blog or H Street would be to step in front of the X2?
Just a question that has come to mind when thinking about this issue, for ANC comissioner Ronneberg. As elected by your "constituents" to represent their neighborhood concerns, have you taken a cross-section poll of what all folks in the neighborhood really think about this issue? How many people does it really concern? You've done your non-scientific, statistic-gathering observations and photographing expeditions of sales at the 7-Eleven, but have you done many interviews with the people the store actually impacts the most.....the store's customers, on their satisfaction of having the store in the neighborhood? And how many citizens within your ANC have no knowledge of this issue, nor even care about it as an "issue"?? And, isn't the chicken bone litter excuse really just a cover for dog owners who can't or won't keep their dogs under physical control when out walking them? Seems to me, if 7-E stopped selling boned wings, replacing them with boneless wings, the packaging (potential litter) would be the same. You also seem to concentrate only on the wings...maybe because discarded hot dogs portions don't pose a threat if swallowed by scavenging dogs, furthering my belief that you're couching your real issue in disguise. And, if 7-E became licensed as a fast food business, wouldn't they just concentrate harder on selling a higher percentage of said "fast food', again only compounding the potential for increased litter? And so what, you put 7-Eleven out of business, and that leaves people with NO OPTION for finding fast food (wings) nearby, really? I think not. Take a poll of your constituents, and find out what you can really do to help the majority of your neighbors and neighborhood, please. I, for one, enjoy the option of shopping 7-Eleven for a quick container of milk, a loaf of bread, a snack, a handful of party goods on the run, etc. in a safe, well-lit, clean, friendly place. Admittedly, being just a bit of a snob myself, I prefer the 7_E choice to many of the other "long established" retail options existing along H Street. I honestly think the majority of my neighbors do, too. --Richard
If 7-Eleven applies for zoning relief as a fast food establishment, they need to go through a public process. As part of this process, the community can propose conditions for incorporating into the BZA order to reduce the amount of trash on the surrounding neighborhood.
To quote from the Zoning Commission:
“In an attempt to strike a balance between the differing interests, the Commission believes that the BZA process would permit fast food restaurants but would offer the opportunity to consider, on a case-by-case basis, any adverse affects that may be caused by a fast-food restaurant.”
Ideas include
1) requiring 7-Eleven to install trash receptacles in their store 2) requiring 7-Eleven to supplement the funding of the H Street Connection's porter service to clean up trash on surrounding streets. The management of the Shopping Center already spends $200/month to help clean up trash on the 700 block of 10th St, but as the residents of that block can tell you, more frequent service is necessary.
I'm sure other ideas would come up in the public process.
As to Russ' idea about having a city-wide 5 cent bottle deposit, I'm all in favor of it. If Russ does the work to draft the legislation and get this on the City Council's agenda, I will ask 6A to write a letter of support for it. Sounds like a great project, Russ, good luck with it.
Beyond the dogs, I do see how chicken bones still pose a problem because of rats. People generally finish a hot dog, pizza, etc. But the bones, because they probably still have some scraps on them, could attract rats more than other fast food refuse.
Drew,
As far as the community proposing ideas, is there any check on the reasonableness of requests?
I dont understand how there is a huge problem with the ANC and the 7-11, yet the other low-cost eateries on H St all offer chicken wings and other food that is discarded on the sidewalk without an outcry from local government. Food, especially chicken bones were a huge problem before the 7-11 and the glut of the problem is between 4th and 8th H St, where if I walk my dog I have to be on constant lookout. The amount of trash outside of the 7-11 is fairly minimal compared to Major's takeout and the place beside of it, and isolating a successful franchise for reasons unbeknown to me is not the way the ANC is ever going to make H St a place more people want to live.
Drew is trying to follow the rules and to force 7-11 to follow the rules. The only reason people are coming to the defence of this 7-11 is because its a white-owned business. It this were black owned everyone would be saying shut it down!
"Ideas include... requiring 7-Eleven to install trash receptacles in their store."
Um... there are trash receptacles ALL OVER the store. And of course Drew knows this, as it's been reported on this very comment board that he's been in the 7-ll, taking photos and making a nuisance of himself in his personal crusade to get this particular store closed.
I went there tonight and counted the trash receptacles both inside and just outside the store. In total, I counted at least 12:
* There is one next to the soda fountain. * There is one next to the Slurpee machine. * There are four--FOUR--along the coffee bar area. * There is one next to the condiment area. * There is one near the hot dog/taquito grills. * There is one at the cash registers. * There is one near the ATM. * There are two immediately outside the store.
So there you go. There are at least 12 different places inside and just outside the store where people can throw away their trash. Is 12 not enough? If not, what is the magical, arbitrary number that Drew wants them to have? 15? 20? 30?
The real answer is: it doesn't matter, because this is a personal crusade, and Drew won't be happy until the store is forced to close, despite the fact that the neighborhood has really embraced it and welcomed it with open arms. All you need to do is read the comments on this post to know that the neighborhood WANTS the 7-Eleven here. Which begs the question, why do you have such little respect for your constituents' opinions, Drew?
Drew's response is total BS. this is nothing more than a shakedown. none of the ideas he's proposing will change the behavior of the people who are littering. 7-11 has no reason whatsoever to seek a fast-food waiver and should fight this scam every step of the way. lost a lot of respect for Drew over this issue.
Maybe there is a compromise solution? Free plastic bag with pictograms on the bag that show how to dispose of the bones after consumption. The ANC can hold a public hearing regarding what pictograms to place on the bag. Each customer gets a bag with every purchase of wings. The ANC can petition the city council to pass a "hardship relief" measure exempting 7-11customers who purchase wings from the 5 cent plastic bag tax.
It wouldn't matter if 7-11 had 50 trash cans in the store--the majority of the 7-11 trash doesn't stop at the door. The wall-papering of the surrounding neighborhood with shiny tinfoil wrappers is testament to that. This litter is an external cost created by 7-11's business, the cost of which is being absorbed by District residents and taxpayers. As a member of the community, I feel very lucky to have such a committed, hard-working ANC member pushing for my interests.
Your response says it all: "It wouldn't matter if 7-11 had 50 trash cans in the store."
Thus, the trash can issue is just a red herring. It's an attempt by Drew to make it look like he's making a "reasonable" request of the store -- hey, who can argue that there shouldn't be trash cans? -- despite the fact that said trash cans already exist, and the store (including the area immediately outside the store) is clean and well-maintained.
You then go on to say that the surrounding neighborhoods are being littered with shiny tinfoil wrappers, and blame this on 7-Eleven, despite the fact that, as another commenter pointed out, 7-Eleven doesn't use shiny tinfoil wrappers. Again, another red herring.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: this is a personal crusade of Drew's to get this particular store closed, and my feeling is that it's because he doesn't consider it "upscale" (i.e., white/hipster) enough.
while I disagree with going after this 7-11 based on chicken bones and litter, I feel sorry for Drew. He's catching so much crap for what he sees as doing his job as an ANC rep. He doesnt even get paid for this!
I'd be fine with this if Drew was doing the same thing to every other take-out place on H that serves bone-in chicken (and there are many places that do). Because he's not, this just seems like more of a petty personal vendetta on his part. Very unbecoming. He's lost my vote in the next election.
Drew, you need to explain your actions, and drop this silly fight with 7-11.
Those other wing joints and fast food places probaby predate the H Street plan and are granfathered. 7-11 is new, thus the interest. If you believe 7-11 is a grocery store, then fine. I happen to believe it is a fast food joint. Just look at their website...they make most of their $ on fast food. As a fast food joint, it would have to get some special exemption and follow extra trash control measures. Big deal...just do it. Is following the agreed upon rules and regs for this area too much to ask? As far as people who litter...fine em' all. It is not 7-11's fault their customer are delinquents.
I wouldnt expect you to read the previous 70 something comments, but being classified as fast food does nothing to curb garbage, particularly customer garbage. And fining people who little wont accomplish anything because they dont have money to pay the fine and you arent going to throw them in jail and you aren't going to ruin the future lofty job prospects with a petty criminal littering record.
As far as I can tell, being classified as fast food, makes you jump through other non-trash reducing hoops unless you negotiate a deal with the community. Drew wants them classified so he can have some bargaining power to impose some maybe effective trash reducing controls. However, 7-11 is just the tip of the iceberg and you would just be annoying them for no reason.
People are just going to have to pic up other people's trash
"And, isn't the chicken bone litter excuse really just a cover for dog owners who can't or won't keep their dogs under physical control when out walking them?"
Even a leashed and well-behaved dog can easily pick up a chicken bone, even if the dog walker is on constant patrol for them.
Chicken bones can splinter and cause serious damage to the dog.
However, I fully support the 7-11. It's a great store.
They have provided trash receptacles. It's really not their fault if people won't use them.
I tell you what would be fun..... seeing a DC cop actually ticket for littering.
OK, "Hillman" quotes from my comment earlier about the responsibility of dog owners taking means to prevent chicken wing enounters. He is correct, that in many instances, even dogs under control and on leashes may quickly woof up a stray bone. But, in Drew's proposal with 7-Eleven, I really think wings are the only real issue for him, and not the bigger problem of litter. Hey, if there's blame to place on the abundance of littered chicken wings, Drew's logic should better be directed at the myriad chicken farmers out in Maryland and Delaware. Not only are they polluting the Bay, but they're the actual, original source for the wings, eventually marketed and sold to 7-Eleven for sales to their customers. (I know this is an absurd proposal, but not any more absurd than Drew's towards 7-Eleven.) Actually, LITTER, in all of its many forms is what most of us on here are upset with. To take one new business to task for a pre-existing problem universal to all parts of our world seems misplaced, discrimatory and petty. Drew, and all of us others posting on here, could better serve the end means of litter reduction(including wing bones) by tackling the problem at other levels with other approaches. It seems absurd to blame 7-Eleven for the production of the volumes of litter existing along H Street, and throughout the District. Stop the attack on this one business, and come up with some better universal solutions. Councilman Wells began the process last year with the implementation of the bag bill. Let's get real on this LITTER issue, and close down the fight against one innocent party. Cease the silly fight against this one business, and begin real dialog with the District and neighborhood concerns about how TO really solve some of the LITTER problems, ok? --Richard
The first time I've heard asking a business to obey the law termed "petty". If they do above a certain % of their business in ready-to-eat packaged food, they're a fast food restaurant. That's the law. Only here would applying the law to a business be termed "petty."
Annoyingmous is right on...asking people to obey the law is not petty. 7-11 is and should be defined as a fast food establishment. Also, littering is illegal. Littering laws should be enforced and people who liter should face a penalty.
Annoyingmous, Do your homework before you cast stones. I have it on excellent, accurate authority that 7-Eleven is in compliance with the percentile of packaged food formula established by District Government. The DC Zoning Department has access to this information, and will use these sales figures to determine the merits of Drew's appeal. The pettiness I refer to is Drew's misrepresented issue of wings vs litter, and his guesswork tactics to establish the actual sales records of this locally owned, franchised retailer. --Richard
I think Richard just volunteered to be the H Street litter czar. Maybe he can split his duties with Russ.
Richard, what is you overall H Street litter plan, including, what are you personally going to do beyond volunteering other people to work on this issue?
Talk is cheap. If you got off your ass and actually tried to do something useful, you would find things aren't as simple as they appear from your keyboard and monitor.
So 7-Eleven offered to show its sales data to the ANC to head off the appeal? Oh wait, no it didn't. So in the absence of that data, how is the ANC supposed to know what percentage of food sales are fast food? They certainly aren't making up the difference in sale of milk and eggs.
Since when did it become the ANC's direct responsibility to monitor, enforce and administer all laws of the District Government? Perhaps a civics lesson will reveal that there are departments within District Government, at the Executive level, to carry-out those functions. It is my understanding the ANC's are advisory-capacity, non-regulatory, non-enforcement entities. DC.gov will give you the specific definitions, for the record. As for sales records of any businesses, I'm not sure many would freely open up their books to the public, but I suspect 7-Eleven has a national policy to comply with all local authorities of government, and I'm sure Drew's appeal process will be acted upon accordingly to the proper DC authorities. Let the public process begin!
if a patron leaves the pug, and does something wrong, in 9 cases out of 10, i would bear the brunt of that action.it's not right or wrong i suppose, just the way it is in dc. i like the 7 11,( a little too bright for me, but i guess that discourages bad behavior from our jungle animals) but i think they knew this kind of thing is part of doing business. i think drew is trying to combat the littering in one of the only ways available to him and the community. clearly his task is made more difficult because only black people litter, and only gentrifiers, gays and dog owners dispose of their trash. ok that's sarcasm. until the city governemnt can handle its business on a day to day basis, i think the only solution is calling someone a faggot ass on a blog. see you at the pug tonight for trash and whisky. tony
Anon 4:34pm: right, ANCs act in an advisory role; and that's what ANC-6A is doing, advising the District government that their regulations are being skirted. That's the same thing ANC-6A does when it contacts DCRA over a curb cut without a variance, or construction work happening on a weekend/holiday, or a zillion other similar things that ANCs do all the time. Well, ones that actually do anything, anyway.
The District will take the ANC's report under advisement, and act as they see fit, as they always do.
The fact that Richard has gone silent makes me hope he is off devising his anti-litter master plan for all of H St. Richard, can you give us periodic updates on your progress? Its great when someone like yourself steps up to the plate on these seemingly intractable issues. Make sure you keep Russ in the loop -- you guys are making a real difference!!
If anonymous comments were disallowed nearly 50% of this discussion alone would not have taken place. I think it would fail miserably and bring the free excange of ideas on this blog to a hault. The anonymous commenters stimulate the discussion as much as PooPoo, Roby, Tony, etc. In fact, if you respond to an anoymous comment and are one of the ones calling for everyone to identify themselves, then you are being very hypocritical. But it's not my blog.
Drew, your efforts would be better spent getting MPD to actually enforce littering laws. Seriously, the problem isn't 7-11 it's a broken culture of "throw the shit on the ground and make the man clean up after me."
Fine the shit out of them... if they don't pay make them spend one hour for every DOLLAR of the fine they don't pay picking up trash.
So Drew, please post a copy of your appeal to MPD to enforce current laws rather that screwing with those that have invested in the community.
"Talk is cheap. If you got off your ass and actually tried to do something useful, you would find things aren't as simple as they appear from your keyboard and monitor."
A Call To Action
What: The Zoning Commission Public Hearing on Case When: December 7th at 1pm (view and download the calendar event) Where: Second Floor in Room 220 South at One Judiciary Square, 441 4th Street, NW How:
Anybody can come testify at the hearing, just by showing up. If you feel you are disproportionately affected, you have until COB today to file form 140 to be a party in the case. "A party has the right to cross-examine witnesses, submit proposed findings of fact and conclusions of law, receive a copy of the written decision of the Zoning Commission or Board of Zoning Adjustment, and exercise any other rights of parties as specified in the Zoning Regulations." You are not require to complete this form if you simply wish to testify at the hearing
For those interested but too busy, you can also see a video of the hearing afterwards.
Long live the do-ocracy!
Dan
P.S. dave b, the regulations are admittedly not easy to find on Google. The H Street Overallay regulation 11 DCMR §§1320.4(c) requiring fast food establishments to apply for zoning relief can be found here. Amendment 11 DCMR §199.1 defining a fast food establishment can be found here.
YOUR efforts would be better spent trying to get MPD to enforce the littering laws rather than writing blog comments. Please get in touch with Richard and Russ and the three of you can come up with a comprehensive fix for the H Street litter problem...
Your post raises a more general question... Do blog commenters every do anything productive, or do they just volunteer others for projects and think of themselves as the "idea person" above any real work?
Truth you are right. Enforce the laws...like litter laws AND zoining laws. 7-11 is skirting zoing laws by claming to be grocery or convenience store when it is clearly all about the fast food.
I'll follow the suggested rules of being polite and respectful, resisting the urge to bash back at those who so freely insult and ridicule other's honestly felt opinions and viewpoints. I'll first address the earlier inquiries addressed (accused) towards me in previous posts, i.e. asking for citation to earlier comments (statistics will be verified during the appeals process, and as the matter is now in the legal hands of DC government, I feel no need to divulge those statistics now) BTW, and to address my credentials for involvement of environmental matters such as litter (begining as a volunteer while in high school in 1970, then throughout a professional career in environmental education, etc.) I think I shall refrain from posting my entire biography of 40 years of direct civic activities here. But, I digress, to fend off the attacks made to me earlier. My real point of this post is to lower my standards, to get on level with some of the critics posting meaningless, useless attacks here and sarcastically comment on the recent suggestion that Russ, The Truth and myself get together to form the comprehensive litter plan for H Street. The anonymous critic has a point, Russ and The Truth, we should band together to get 7-Eleven closed, so thereafter, the entire litter problem of H Street, and the rest of the World, will be solved forever, by this one simple act. Let's get together at Popeye's this afternoon to forumulate our new plan over some spicy hot Popeye's wings!!!! And, just for clarification, I've signed all of my posts by name, except yesterdays at 4:34, which I forgot to sign. And, as I stated before, let the process continue, Zoning appeals meeting will be on Tuesday, Dec. 7. Check their calendar for place and time. Until then, I'm over and out for here. --Richard
Two quick thought: first, I hardly see how it's relevant that "lots of other establishments are the source of trash". That's all great and everything, but it's no justification for adding to the general shit-show.
Second, if 7-11 meets the legal definition for a fast-food franchise, then it's perfectly reasonable for the ANC to lobby the appropriate agencies to have it classified as such--just as it would be the responsibility of any other private citizen to do.
Now 7-11 may not meet that definition; and they have no legal obligation to provide hard data to Drew. But it's certainly within Drew's purview to notify the authorities if he thinks the store has been mis-classified, just as it's anyone else's right to, say, notify the city about an abandoned house on their block.
Finally, yes, it's perfectly reasonable for us (DC residents) to require establishments who contribute "negative externalities" to our neighborhoods to contribute to the mitigation of those externalities.
If your business model depends on selling food wrapped in trash to cretins who then shit all over the sidewalk, you may be required to clean up after your clients.
In the defense of litters, many of them were never taught NOT to litter. I once confronted a teenage girl for littering, and she said "But I put it in the tree box!" She thought that was the proper thing to do. She probably witnessed her adults littering every day of her life.
As far as anecdotes, my favorite littering anecdote ever was one posted as a comment on Frozen Tropics. Apparently, some little boy was literally "on his mama's knee", sitting on the sidewalk, balling up trash, and throwing it into the streets. He nearly hit some passers-by, and his mother knocked him upside his head, and grunted, "Say 'scuse me!!"
I still don't get all the animosity. Richard, i'll buy you a shot wed nite at le pug. Not sure why folks are getting angry about efforts to clean up where you live. You have to use the tools available to you. tonyt the pug. Drew you can have a whiskey on me as well. Happy Thanksgiving
Why does 7-11 branded trash keep filling up my yard?
said...
Richard,
Its ironic how you ask everyone to respect the rules to be polite only after you feel "attacked", "insulted" and "ridiculed". How were you attacked? Someone asked what you were doing on the litter issue that you were telling other people to take the lead on? You sure have thin skin. Here is a clue, Richard -- you were far from polite in your earlier posts. If you can't withstand the criticism that you are just another blog commenter who thinks of himself as the "idea guy" but wants others to do any real work, stop posting to FT.
BTW, your reference to Popeye's was ridiculous. I get far more trash in my yard branded with 7-11's logo than I do from Popeye's. At least Popeye's has tables where people can get their fast food inside at a table and dispose of their trash within the store rather than in my yard.
I have nothing to say, i just want this thread to. Get to 100 comments. The pug is open thanksgiving night about 830. Come in and get littered! Tonyt the pug
@inked - Yeah, migrating is annoying. I understand allowing anon commenters. Though I do think that people on here get confused about the difference between "anonymous" and posting under an unregistered name (no email required!) to aid in replying to comments. If you are interested I think you can alter blogger to let you use a system like IntenseDebate: http://intensedebate.com/ which allows for threaded comments. So at least you can collapse name calling...
Wow, I don't read this for 2 days and when I do I see that people have nothing better to do than bash others but not provide alternative ideas. If everyone would put this energy into actually doing something constructive their would be no litter problem. How many people actually get out and sweep the sidewalk or street occasionally? To bad we cannot set a time, say Wednesday at 6pm, and at that time once a week everyone comes out and spends 15 minutes sweeping and meeting their neighbors. Image what could be accomplished. Ok off my soapbox, go back to bashing me for posing suggestions vice just bitching about everyone.
Signed Russ, so you can feel free to bash me again.
As someone who lives across the street from the 7-11, I have mixed feelings on this. Their customers generate increased trash but is that their fault? Having said that, if they're deemed a fast food establishment then they deserve to be regulated as such. Trash has always been a problem around my home because some people simply weren't taught better. I live on the alley on 10th street and I'm much more concerned about the men (and sometimes women) who urinate in the alley and on my house. Unbelievable. The food wrappers and beer bottles don't help matters but maybe we could all agree that what we need is an increased police presence. And not just in the 7-11 hanging out as they were Saturday evening around 5p.m. I'm not questioning their motives -- maybe they were both on break -- but it would be great if they "hung out" outside in full view of the community. Drew M
106 comments:
It's sad to see local government strong arming a small franchise owner who brought a bright clean store to a empty dark space. I feel for them. That store is the best run 7-11 I've been to. It will be a sad day when they are forced out but that's what that SMD ANC seems hell bent on doing. Politicians should not use governement as a tool to arbitrarily harm people, and their livelihoods. There is no defense for this overeach. There was trash on H before, and will continue to be long after tis ANC's attack is over. This seems to be a targeted attack aimed at this one store.
So, the problem with people who go to 7-11 taking the 5 seconds to put the bones in a trash can like um...say, classy citizens with manners is just, well, I guess, a pipe dream because why would anyone use a trash can like a grown up or why would anyone have manners or why would anyone think that was remotely not the responsibility of 7-11 to be their mommy. It obviously is, its not possible to believe it could be the responsibility of the chicken consumer.... ANC Idiots. Oh and the other chicken places on H street and Benning, well, they have no issues with trash or vermin, simply none. I guess 7-11 is the rat capital of DC. Oh,and for all the neighborhood dogs that are going to die from choking--you are supposed to have your dogs on a 4 ft. leash (borrowed this from another post), so maybe again it goes back to RESPONSIBILITY! I know based on the general state of this neighborhood that is a hard concept, but can somebody for the love of god stop this BS.
Agreed, the guys at 7-11 are a great addition to the neighborhood and have turned a desolate stripmall space into a bright and shiny store with essentials that were previously unavailable close by. This ANC is out of control and should be happy that people are willing to invest rather than playing God in order to speed along their gentrification agenda.
I personally saw Drew taking pictures inside that 7-11 with their permission and having someone record who buys what while shopping there solely due to the wings issue.
Both the owners and the workers there are great people and care about the neighborhood, not because they live here but that they are decent people. Why doesn't the ANC get more people to clean the streets?
I love how the ANC is up in arms over the 7-11 but apparently doesn't give two wet craps about the ignorant pieces of trash who are too lazy to find a garbage can after they're done eating.
How about the ANC pushing the D.C. government to make littering a $500 fine, no warnings.
I saw someone getting arrested behind the 7-Eleven on my way home tonight. The sooner that place goes and the construction starts for the new development, the better.
$500 fines for littering wont do shit because well, the chicken-bone-littering people dont have $500. That is why they eat chicken from 7-11. So then, what are you gonna do, put them in jail? Make them do community service? If they don't do that put them in jail? Jail is too expensive so I guess we'll just have to give them a criminal record? Surely that will be a deterrent as these people don't want to ruin future job prospects?
There is a certain segment of society that are just pieces of shit whose situation is so bad that they there are no consequences for anything they do. Hopefully a moderate amount of gentrification gets rid of them. However we might just have to deal with it unless WMATA seriously redraws the bus map to make 8th and H not a major intersection of Anacostia and Ward 7.
An aside: I once saw a piece of shit spitting sunflower seed shells out on the floor of a 90/92 bus. Has to be a top 3 WTF moment in my life.
Thank you frozen tropics for getting me riled up before bed
As one who is fortunate to work in va where plastic bags are plentiful and free with purchase of anything, instead of foregoing the bag for green purposes I will accept the bag, provide the company with advertising by carrying said bag, save the bag and use it to pick up a piece of trash (real not figurative) on my way home like I see dog owners do with poop (so I don't get certain disease that is rampant in dc) and deposit it in a garbage can that most certainly will not be the one in my house
dave b -
"one of the top 3 WTF moments..."
seriously?
i'm curious.... from whence do you hail?
A real WTF moment is seeing a metro bus driver drop sun flower seed hulls on the bus floor. I've seen that happen.
Anyway, I agree that ANC 6A has gone off the deep end on this issue.
i dont have a good memory. usually my favorite movie is the last one i've seen.
however, the repeatedly conscious action of doing it over and over again elevates it's WTF status over a more outrageous instantaneous act. it's just illogical. where does that person think those seeds are going to go (some goes for any litterer)? there is no goal for this crime, like say stealing? i can understand that. littering blows my mind
Just go to the 7-11 website and try and tell me they aren't a fast food establishment. They should be regulated as such...period.
http://www.7-eleven.com/
Blame Buffalo...
Robby is definitely right.
This 7-11 is a great option to have in this neighborhood, these people open a shop in this tough economy and have to put up with bullying from an ANC.
Street cleaners would be a good idea. If the ANC does win, will they really go after all of the other establishments that sell chicken wings?
7-Eleven has changed its business model a lot in the past couple of years and now they rely on the sale of fast food items like pizza, hot dogs, burrito roller, taquitos, chicken tenders and chicken wings for a significant percentage of their revenues (http://www.7-eleven.com/Category.aspx?CategoryId=3002000) . All of these fast food items are sold in containers, many of which become litter on neighboring streets. You can tell when trash comes from 7-Eleven because they have their name and logo on the containers. Check out the 700 and 600 blocks of 10th St NE, where you will see what I mean.
7-Eleven generates significant quantities of trash because it is a fast-food establishment. That is why Zoning Regulations requires that fast-food establishments require zoning relief. The ANC's argument is that 7-Eleven is a fast-food establishment and should be classified as such.
Does this mean that ANC 6A is trying to shut down the business? No. It just means that 7-Eleven would have to apply for zoning relief through a public process where issues like trash mitigation are discussed.
ANC 6A is not targeting 7-Eleven -- unpermitted fast food establishments have been a reoccurring issue for our neighborhood. Our ANC also appealed Blimpie's and Cluck-U Chicken's Certificate of Occupancy (C of O) for the same reason.
The other issue is that the ANC only has 60 days to appeal a C of O from when it is first issued. Other establishments on H Street are clearly operating as fast-food establishments but the window for appealing their C of O closed long ago.
If new establishments open in ANC 6A that meet the definition of a fast food establishment but are not permitted as such, by all means the ANC should appeal their C of O. Contact me personally if you feel this is the case. There is nothing special about 7-Eleven in that regard.
Best regards,
Drew
Small-minded, myopic opposition to what is otherwise a positive, contributing member of the community does nothing more than discourage other would-be business owners from opening in the area.
Am very disappointed to hear of this opposition to a neighborhood (and, neighborhood-owned) business.
Matt
Betcha P & C market wouldn't have a problem opening on H, even though a lot of their income is really excellent pre made sandwiches, pastries, coffee and ice cream. The real issue is that 7-11 appeals to the wrong demographic.
I've noticed a strong correlation between how little someone knows about an issue and how likely they are to post a blog comment.
Maybe it should be titled The Law of Blog Comments: Those with the strongest opinions tend to be the least informed.
Thanks Drew for your comments. I agree with you 100% and if we allow 7-11 to get away with not being classified as a fast food establishment, then others will come in and do the same. Robby's opening comment stated, "Politicians should not use governement as a tool to arbitrarily harm people, and their livelihoods. There is no defense for this overeach." I appreciate your interest in neighborhood improvement and the livelihoods of ALL of us on H St. You're doing exactly what I want my elected officials to do. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for taking time to address this Drew. and yes, currently 7-11 does appeal to the wrong demographic- people who litter in my neighborhood. If there were Dean & Deluca wrappers all over my street I'd be on their case as well.
What is wrong with fast food? Would there be the same issue if it were Dean and Deluca or Au Bon Pain, I doubt it. This is a thinly veiled stance by the ANC to remove the "bad element" when they should be focused on making this an attractive place for new business. With more businesses open there would be more tax money available for an H St. BID which could then employ people to keep the streets clean. Why are they limiting what type of places can open when there are still a ton of empty store fronts? MORONS!
It appears as though 7-11's only mistake is using 7-11 wrappers and containers. Their committment to advertising seems to be damning evidence. The odd thing is that the more damning evidence there is the better the advertising. Nobody is going to see a 7-11 wrapper in a trash can.
Anyway, what are the implications of them being classified as fast food? I know you mention trash mitigation agreements, but what they hell is that actually? How is it enforced?
I see where you have to start regulating at some point, but it seems like the toothpaste is out of the tube on this one and 7-11's trash is just a drop in the bucket.
Really, the best we can hope for is to just pick up other people's trash and maybe they see it and are embarrased they littered
I live a block from this 7-11 and couldn't agree more with Drew and the ANC. This is clearly a fast-food restaurant and should be required to go through the appropriate permitting process.
Thanks, Drew for weighing in and for helping out here. We don't need any more fast food spots in our neighborhood and we need more people like you who will do something rather than just post anonymous comments on blogs.
You know what would go great in that location. a Cluck-U
From the posts here, what every one wants changed is the behavior of those who toss their liter onto the streets. Regardless of the justification by a heavy handed ANC or the residents who live next to the 7-11; changing permits and regulating a business to closure will not change the behavior of the offenders. What's the best way to effect change in the undesired behaviors?
If 7-11 is operating as a fast food joint, which requires compliance with certain regulations, I don't see why the ANC's effort to gain compliance is so controversial. ANC haters, is your love of big gulps and stale taquitos ruining your judgment?? I guess the ANC should turn a blind eye if a place you like is skirting the rules. Sweet. ANC, please stand down if dejavu, spearmint rhino or some other such reputable business tries to open near anyone's house but mine. Thanks!
Capitol has the right of it. Its the behavior of some that causes the problem. However, I don't understand how the process Drew mentions will address the chicken bone et al problem stemming from 7-11. Especially since there are other fast food places that can supply the chicken bones.maybe 7-11 should raise the price of their chicken so that that element of people won't buy their chicken and then throw the bones on the ground.
Drew:
You’re rationale is understandable, yet you execution is what seems misplaced. You’re seeking to make an example of 7-11 because you missed the window on others. You’re their elected official so I presume you constituents agree with your crusade, now think of what will happen when 7-11 closes because they can’t afford or sustain a prolonged zoning and legal challenge. Think of the people you will be adding to the unemployment rolls. You have the power to actually ruin people’s lives. While, I don’t think it is your intent to do this, you are ending up being what people seem to disgust most about government intervention. Per the article if they agreed to sale only boneless wings then all would be okay. So this zoning issue is all folly. There seems to be no virtue in your position other than that you didn’t get what you wanted, so you’re breaking out the hammer.
Then you go on to say well, there is trash all over, but because we can identify 7-11’s trash we’ll go after them. Isn’t that, well, arbitrarily going after the low hanging fruit? There is a larger problem, and reclassifying them as a fast food restaurant won’t solve it. I am all for process, but I am also looking at the outcome. Let’s say like McDonald’s they become a fast food place, and like McDonalds their patron’s litter the streets. Then what? You will risk bureaucratically shutting down a business to end up back where you are. Or worse they make the business decision to leave, and there’s a vacant space. Lost tax revenue and all of the problems associated with vacant spaces.
Procedurally, you may have a valid point, and it will ripple across the city. Practically, you may end up no better off.
Just food for thought, I know you’ve made your decision.
v/r
-Robby
"We don't need any more fast food spots in our neighborhood"
-----------
except a burrito place, some better pizza, and a sandwich place that is open consistently (unlike PWI) and that actually has the items on its menu (unlike Taylor, though they seem to be improving). we could use a falafel joint too (maybe Souk can get on that).
we probably just need more dogs to eat the chicken bones. i once saw a chesapeake bay retriever house like 5 wings, bones and all, and i think it turned out ok. so if you are dogn shopping, get one of those
Robby --
Why should 7-11 receive special treatment? If they are a fast food establishment, why shouldn't they be subject to the same regulations as other fast food establishments?
The fact is that zoning regulations requires that fast-food establishments require certain zoning relief. 7-11 is a fast food establishment masquerading as a convenience store. For God's sake look at their website. If the store closed beecause 7-11's business model is disingenuous in describing itself as a convenience store so be it. That would be 7-11's fault, not the ANC or a majority of local residents who actually like our laws enforced. Similarly, anyone who litters should be fined.
Can somebody please specifically describe to me wtf getting them classified as fast food will do? WTF is zoning relief?
I know there is some 15% rule or something, but when I look at 7-11, I don't see it as a fast food joint? Do they even have cooking equipment besides a microwave, hot dog rollers, and red lights?
As I understnd it, fast food establishments are restricted under the H Street Neighborhood Commercial Overlay (google it dude...its laid out cleary in DC regs, as is the defintion of fast food establishment). If one wants to open fast food in this area, the Board of Zoning Adjustment must grant them a waiver (that is what the ANC is opposing). Without a waiver no certificant of occupancy and thus they can't open.
+100 @Robby 2:14pm
Wow, Ive been in agreement with Robby on this post!!
7-11 being called a "Fast-Food" spot will not change the litering
Does anyone know what a "bear" is? I heard that this 7-11 was a "bear 7-11" and when I googled "dc bear 7-11" I got this: http://www.dcbearscene.com/2010/09/23/bear-7-11-to-hold-grand-opening-event-friday/
Robby, as usual, you're full of it: "Think of the people you will be adding to the unemployment rolls. You have the power to actually ruin people’s lives." I would be willing to bet the vast majority of us who paid $500K for our homes around the 7-11 are WAY more concerned about our property values then keeping 10 people employed at the 7-11. On this, I support the ANC and all they are trying to do to bring the 7-11 into compliance.
Did the 7-11 owners not do their homework or did they intentionally usurp the fast food process thinking no one would notice?
Thank you, Drew. You are doing the right thing.
Bad element? There are 7-11s in Dupont, U Street, Barracks Row, etc. I don't think people equate 7-11 as catering to the wrong "element." I think they have legitmate concerns with the trash issue. However, its not 7-11's fault that people are lazy. As a resident on K street, I frequently have to pick up trash from lazy people walking to and from the bus stops who decide they can't wait until they pass a trash can. Some people just have no pride in themselves or their neighborhoods. That is their issue, not 7-11's.
D
So Drew a no Starbucks for H Street?
@Anon 3:36pm-
I do think that most of the time Robby is "full of it" but I strongly disagree you having a go at him. Robby brings up some very good points and has not resorted to name calling or harsh remarks.
How would your property value depreciated with the 7-11 at present? I would think the value would suffer due to the lack of commercial development and living beside an EMPTY shopping center.
Not having a concern for those "10 people" working or not is a very messed up attitude. Those people belong to this neighborhood like the rest of us, they are giving back also. Those "10 people" can be unemployed, then they can be "those 10 people" breaking in to cars/houses. They can be "those 10 people" sucking the welfare/social services dry.
Just like some others have said, maybe you can pick up some of the trash and hope that the trash situation gets better. The trash has been an issue before 7-11 and it will be an issue if they close.
What exactly can be done about the underlying littering issue?
A "bear" is Avery large, hairy, gay male. Apparently the owners are gay, and into bears.
The alleged sexual orientation and/or sub-culture of the owners if not at issue here. To even bring that up really is unfortunate. Regardless on where you stand on this issue please let’s not resort to that kind of stuff.
Just saw this on twitter. 7-11 is not a good neighbor. Guarantee that lady does not live within a couple blocks of 7-11 and wasn't walking past on her way home from dinner at Atlas Room either.
getloosenow Scene at 7-11 on #HSt last nite: Lady cussed out #MPD officers for 30 mins, dropped trou and defecated on the ground, then ran. #urbanliving
I get the technicalities of wanting them to be a "fast-food" restaurant, fine, and why some people pursue strict interpretation arguments regardless of actual intent. But even if that succeeds, then what is to be done about the LITTERING? That's the real problem regardless of the semantics about 7-11 and zoning relief. The amount of fast food items sold will not stop lazy people from littering and there is no mathematical proof it will mitigate the amount of littering. You would have to randomly sell your allowed amount of food to exact type of group that was previously buying it at the higher allowed rate--who is going to run that experiment? Perhaps the first 100 people in the door will all be litterers, zoning relief or not. I hate the trash I see around H street, I would much prefer that this issue brought that to light and that it truly did become a topic of discussion with our "elected officials" instead of them going for semantic arguments because they know where to find the person they are arguing with. I know those litterers can be awfully slippery. No littering signs, done tastefully and artfully, or even positive motivation signs about not littering could be very nice.
Love the 7-11, the staff and the owners seem very nice.
The place is always clean and well stocked.
They have milk and a slice of pizza when I dont feel like cooking.
They clean up their surrounding area constantly.
It is small potatos going after 7-11, how about a citywide 5 cent deposit on beverage bottles, now that would have a major impact on litter if that is what the ANC is trying to do. To bad they are doing it in a convoluted way vice a reasonable way.
So what is being done about the multiple fast food places that have trash and such all over the north side of H between 7th and 8th. The new sidewalk is already ruined and covered in trash 24/7.
Russ
Since some wise ass told me to "google it dude", I did. Really all I was expecting and answer like "7 Eleven employees must pick up litter once a day in a one block radius".
Something functional like that doesnt appear to be in the plans.
Instead the H Street Overlay I was toll to look up includes a bunch of bullshit that will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to stop or clean up customer littering.
Here is the H St Overlay:
======================
(c) Fast food establishment or food delivery service provided:
(1) No part of the lot on which the use is located shall be within twenty-five feet (25 ft.) of a Residence District, unless separated therefrom by a street or alley;
(2) If any lot line of the lot abuts an alley containing a zone district boundary line for a Residence District, a continuous brick wall at least six feet (6 ft.) high and twelve inches (12 in.) thick shall be constructed and maintained on the lot along the length of that lot line;
(3) Any refuse dumpsters shall be housed in a three (3) sided brick enclosure equal in height to the dumpster or six feet (6 ft.) high, whichever is greater.
The entrance to the enclosure shall include an opaque gate and shall not face a Residence District; and
(4) This use shall occupy no more than twenty-five percent (25%) of the linear street frontage within the HS Overlay District as measured along the lots that face the designated roadway;
-----------------------
Before I was in a "Hey maybe the ANC is actually trying to get something done, but I just don't see what"
If this is what they are enforcing/trying to accomplish, it is total bullshit at least in regard to littering and chicken bones
Drew,
I support you on the 7-11 issue. However.
Thanks
This is such a fascinating discussion of an issue that brings up so many other gentrification issues! Dog people who are sick of chicken bones everywhere. white gentrifiers. Black residents who have been littering for decades and don't plan to change ... and who love chicken. People who want Starbucks instead of 7 11. etc etc...
Apparently the receipts show that this store is significantly under the 15% cut off for fast food sales, so I'm not sure what the big deal is- or how their license can be revoked or modified.
The littering is the issue here people, not the zoning! They AREN'T a fast food restaurant, at least by the 15% rule.
Cant the people who are paid to stand around smoking on H Street.... I mean paid to clean H street... somehow do a better job of picking up litter?
In the defense of litters, many of them were never taught NOT to litter. I once confronted a teenage girl for littering, and she said "But I put it in the tree box!" She thought that was the proper thing to do. She probably witnessed her adults littering every day of her life.
We need some basic anti-littering education, as ridiculous as that sounds to those of us whose parents raised us well!
Someone asked about bears, I edified said person. Not that I give a sh*t about the orientation of the owners.... Although I do think that gay males tend to care a bit more about cleanliness.... Seriously. Anyway, I have to say that the owners were obviously perceived by some as 'bears'.... DuRing their opening..... TheY wanted bears around.... Maybe this is a gay rivalry thing? Is drew gay? The mystery deepens......
Dear ANC 6a,
It ain't no thang but a chicken wang.
Your Neighbor,
Amy
Honestly, this whole thing just seems like a convoluted attack against one particular business (or, more worrisome, a personal attack against one particular business owner), and the "fast food zoning" issue just happens to be the ANC's weapon of choice.
Here's my take on it:
The store itself is nice. Honestly, probably one of the nicest 7-Eleven's I've ever been to. It's bright, it's clean, it's well-stocked, and the staff is incredibly friendly. Compare this to the dreadful 7-Eleven on 8th and Maryland, and it's literally night and day.
The store itself is owned and operated by guys from the neighborhood, and the staff is almost entirely made up of people who live in the H Street/Trinidad area, as far as I can tell. It's bringing jobs to the area in the middle of a recession. Also, it's yet another new business on H Street, during a time when many of us are celebrating the opening of any new business along this corridor.
Every time I've gone in there, the store has been pretty busy. I have to imagine that the numbers there are pretty good, so it's presumably bringing in quite a bit of tax revenue.
Everything I've seen and read about this, I really can't help but feel like it's a witch hunt. I wish the ANC would just let it operate in peace.
Drew Ronnenberg,
Can you please tell us how zoning relief will stop the litter? I've been asking all day and the only help I got was being redirected to the H St overlay, which as far as I can tell, if 7-11 complied with would still not do anything to stop someone from littering two blocks away.
If you were to outline what you want 7-11 to do, how that would stop litter, and by what authority you can ask them to do so, you probably could have stopped this discussion 20 posts ago and probably sway people to your side
I second Dave B's question: i'm also confused as to how the hell this process that Drew is pushing for will stop litter. I'm all for process and everyone playing by the rules, but what does that have to do with addressing litter? Please be specific.
How is it that even Robby's good points get lost in his need to demonstrate that his greatest contribution to this blog or H Street would be to step in front of the X2?
The previous comment is yet another in the zillions of examples of why inked should force sign-in to comment.
Just a question that has come to mind when thinking about this issue, for ANC comissioner Ronneberg. As elected by your "constituents" to represent their neighborhood concerns, have you taken a cross-section poll of what all folks in the neighborhood really think about this issue? How many people does it really concern? You've done your non-scientific, statistic-gathering observations and photographing expeditions of sales at the 7-Eleven, but have you done many interviews with the people the store actually impacts the most.....the store's customers, on their satisfaction of having the store in the neighborhood? And how many citizens within your ANC have no knowledge of this issue, nor even care about it as an "issue"?? And, isn't the chicken bone litter excuse really just a cover for dog owners who can't or won't keep their dogs under physical control when out walking them? Seems to me, if 7-E stopped selling boned wings, replacing them with boneless wings, the packaging (potential litter) would be the same. You also seem to concentrate only on the wings...maybe because discarded hot dogs portions don't pose a threat if swallowed by scavenging dogs, furthering my belief that you're couching your real issue in disguise. And, if 7-E became licensed as a fast food business, wouldn't they just concentrate harder on selling a higher percentage of said "fast food', again only compounding the potential for increased litter? And so what, you put 7-Eleven out of business, and that leaves people with NO OPTION for finding fast food (wings) nearby, really? I think not. Take a poll of your constituents, and find out what you can really do to help the majority of your neighbors and neighborhood, please. I, for one, enjoy the option of shopping 7-Eleven for a quick container of milk, a loaf of bread, a snack, a handful of party goods on the run, etc. in a safe, well-lit, clean, friendly place. Admittedly, being just a bit of a snob myself, I prefer the 7_E choice to many of the other "long established" retail options existing along H Street. I honestly think the majority of my neighbors do, too. --Richard
Dave B,
If 7-Eleven applies for zoning relief as a fast food establishment, they need to go through a public process. As part of this process, the community can propose conditions for incorporating into the BZA order to reduce the amount of trash on the surrounding neighborhood.
To quote from the Zoning Commission:
“In an attempt to strike a balance between the differing interests, the Commission believes that the BZA process would permit fast food restaurants but would offer the opportunity to consider, on a case-by-case basis, any adverse affects that may be caused by a fast-food restaurant.”
Ideas include
1) requiring 7-Eleven to install trash receptacles in their store
2) requiring 7-Eleven to supplement the funding of the H Street Connection's porter service to clean up trash on surrounding streets. The management of the Shopping Center already spends $200/month to help clean up trash on the 700 block of 10th St, but as the residents of that block can tell you, more frequent service is necessary.
I'm sure other ideas would come up in the public process.
As to Russ' idea about having a city-wide 5 cent bottle deposit, I'm all in favor of it. If Russ does the work to draft the legislation and get this on the City Council's agenda, I will ask 6A to write a letter of support for it. Sounds like a great project, Russ, good luck with it.
Best regards,
Drew
Drew:
And how will extra trash cans and their paying into a fund that seems to pay people to stand around solve the underlying problem?
It is unclear how all this will achieve the desired outcome.
Its interesting that you don't address any of us that raise this point.
Beyond the dogs, I do see how chicken bones still pose a problem because of rats. People generally finish a hot dog, pizza, etc. But the bones, because they probably still have some scraps on them, could attract rats more than other fast food refuse.
Drew,
As far as the community proposing ideas, is there any check on the reasonableness of requests?
I dont understand how there is a huge problem with the ANC and the 7-11, yet the other low-cost eateries on H St all offer chicken wings and other food that is discarded on the sidewalk without an outcry from local government. Food, especially chicken bones were a huge problem before the 7-11 and the glut of the problem is between 4th and 8th H St, where if I walk my dog I have to be on constant lookout. The amount of trash outside of the 7-11 is fairly minimal compared to Major's takeout and the place beside of it, and isolating a successful franchise for reasons unbeknown to me is not the way the ANC is ever going to make H St a place more people want to live.
name calling...im surprised this didnt surface earlier...
If I only had a nickel for every Checkers container I've picked up in my front yard or sidewalk.......
Drew is trying to follow the rules and to force 7-11 to follow the rules. The only reason people are coming to the defence of this 7-11 is because its a white-owned business. It this were black owned everyone would be saying shut it down!
Drew said:
"Ideas include... requiring 7-Eleven to install trash receptacles in their store."
Um... there are trash receptacles ALL OVER the store. And of course Drew knows this, as it's been reported on this very comment board that he's been in the 7-ll, taking photos and making a nuisance of himself in his personal crusade to get this particular store closed.
I went there tonight and counted the trash receptacles both inside and just outside the store. In total, I counted at least 12:
* There is one next to the soda fountain.
* There is one next to the Slurpee machine.
* There are four--FOUR--along the coffee bar area.
* There is one next to the condiment area.
* There is one near the hot dog/taquito grills.
* There is one at the cash registers.
* There is one near the ATM.
* There are two immediately outside the store.
So there you go. There are at least 12 different places inside and just outside the store where people can throw away their trash. Is 12 not enough? If not, what is the magical, arbitrary number that Drew wants them to have? 15? 20? 30?
The real answer is: it doesn't matter, because this is a personal crusade, and Drew won't be happy until the store is forced to close, despite the fact that the neighborhood has really embraced it and welcomed it with open arms.
All you need to do is read the comments on this post to know that the neighborhood WANTS the 7-Eleven here. Which begs the question, why do you have such little respect for your constituents' opinions, Drew?
-- Bryan
Drew's response is total BS. this is nothing more than a shakedown. none of the ideas he's proposing will change the behavior of the people who are littering. 7-11 has no reason whatsoever to seek a fast-food waiver and should fight this scam every step of the way. lost a lot of respect for Drew over this issue.
Maybe there is a compromise solution? Free plastic bag with pictograms on the bag that show how to dispose of the bones after consumption. The ANC can hold a public hearing regarding what pictograms to place on the bag. Each customer gets a bag with every purchase of wings. The ANC can petition the city council to pass a "hardship relief" measure exempting 7-11customers who purchase wings from the 5 cent plastic bag tax.
It wouldn't matter if 7-11 had 50 trash cans in the store--the majority of the 7-11 trash doesn't stop at the door. The wall-papering of the surrounding neighborhood with shiny tinfoil wrappers is testament to that. This litter is an external cost created by 7-11's business, the cost of which is being absorbed by District residents and taxpayers. As a member of the community, I feel very lucky to have such a committed, hard-working ANC member pushing for my interests.
GO DREW!!
7 eleven doesn't use shiny tin foil wrappers, sorry...you have drew proof read your support posts genius...
Anonymous 1:08, thank you for proving my point.
Your response says it all: "It wouldn't matter if 7-11 had 50 trash cans in the store."
Thus, the trash can issue is just a red herring. It's an attempt by Drew to make it look like he's making a "reasonable" request of the store -- hey, who can argue that there shouldn't be trash cans? -- despite the fact that said trash cans already exist, and the store (including the area immediately outside the store) is clean and well-maintained.
You then go on to say that the surrounding neighborhoods are being littered with shiny tinfoil wrappers, and blame this on 7-Eleven, despite the fact that, as another commenter pointed out, 7-Eleven doesn't use shiny tinfoil wrappers. Again, another red herring.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: this is a personal crusade of Drew's to get this particular store closed, and my feeling is that it's because he doesn't consider it "upscale" (i.e., white/hipster) enough.
-- Bryan
while I disagree with going after this 7-11 based on chicken bones and litter, I feel sorry for Drew. He's catching so much crap for what he sees as doing his job as an ANC rep. He doesnt even get paid for this!
I'd be fine with this if Drew was doing the same thing to every other take-out place on H that serves bone-in chicken (and there are many places that do). Because he's not, this just seems like more of a petty personal vendetta on his part. Very unbecoming. He's lost my vote in the next election.
Drew, you need to explain your actions, and drop this silly fight with 7-11.
Thanks Drew. Full support.
Those other wing joints and fast food places probaby predate the H Street plan and are granfathered. 7-11 is new, thus the interest. If you believe 7-11 is a grocery store, then fine. I happen to believe it is a fast food joint. Just look at their website...they make most of their $ on fast food. As a fast food joint, it would have to get some special exemption and follow extra trash control measures. Big deal...just do it. Is following the agreed upon rules and regs for this area too much to ask? As far as people who litter...fine em' all. It is not 7-11's fault their customer are delinquents.
@curmudgeon - Disallowing anon commenting would be nice, but it would be nicer if she moved to some sort of threaded comment system.
@inked - You ever think of leaving blogger? For wordpress or moveabletype?
Anonymous at 10:42,
I wouldnt expect you to read the previous 70 something comments, but being classified as fast food does nothing to curb garbage, particularly customer garbage. And fining people who little wont accomplish anything because they dont have money to pay the fine and you arent going to throw them in jail and you aren't going to ruin the future lofty job prospects with a petty criminal littering record.
As far as I can tell, being classified as fast food, makes you jump through other non-trash reducing hoops unless you negotiate a deal with the community. Drew wants them classified so he can have some bargaining power to impose some maybe effective trash reducing controls. However, 7-11 is just the tip of the iceberg and you would just be annoying them for no reason.
People are just going to have to pic up other people's trash
"And, isn't the chicken bone litter excuse really just a cover for dog owners who can't or won't keep their dogs under physical control when out walking them?"
Even a leashed and well-behaved dog can easily pick up a chicken bone, even if the dog walker is on constant patrol for them.
Chicken bones can splinter and cause serious damage to the dog.
However, I fully support the 7-11. It's a great store.
They have provided trash receptacles. It's really not their fault if people won't use them.
I tell you what would be fun..... seeing a DC cop actually ticket for littering.
Has anyone EVER seen that in DC?
OK, "Hillman" quotes from my comment earlier about the responsibility of dog owners taking means to prevent chicken wing enounters. He is correct, that in many instances, even dogs under control and on leashes may quickly woof up a stray bone. But, in Drew's proposal with 7-Eleven, I really think wings are the only real issue for him, and not the bigger problem of litter. Hey, if there's blame to place on the abundance of littered chicken wings, Drew's logic should better be directed at the myriad chicken farmers out in Maryland and Delaware. Not only are they polluting the Bay, but they're the actual, original source for the wings, eventually marketed and sold to 7-Eleven for sales to their customers. (I know this is an absurd proposal, but not any more absurd than Drew's towards 7-Eleven.) Actually, LITTER, in all of its many forms is what most of us on here are upset with. To take one new business to task for a pre-existing problem universal to all parts of our world seems misplaced, discrimatory and petty. Drew, and all of us others posting on here, could better serve the end means of litter reduction(including wing bones) by tackling the problem at other levels with other approaches. It seems absurd to blame 7-Eleven for the production of the volumes of litter existing along H Street, and throughout the District. Stop the attack on this one business, and come up with some better universal solutions. Councilman Wells began the process last year with the implementation of the bag bill. Let's get real on this LITTER issue, and close down the fight against one innocent party. Cease the silly fight against this one business, and begin real dialog with the District and neighborhood concerns about how TO really solve some of the LITTER problems, ok? --Richard
The first time I've heard asking a business to obey the law termed "petty". If they do above a certain % of their business in ready-to-eat packaged food, they're a fast food restaurant. That's the law. Only here would applying the law to a business be termed "petty."
The funny thing to me... people's standards are so damn low they're spending all this time defending having a 7-11 in our 'hood.
Annoyingmous is right on...asking people to obey the law is not petty. 7-11 is and should be defined as a fast food establishment. Also, littering is illegal. Littering laws should be enforced and people who liter should face a penalty.
Annoyingmous, Do your homework before you cast stones. I have it on excellent, accurate authority that 7-Eleven is in compliance with the percentile of packaged food formula established by District Government. The DC Zoning Department has access to this information, and will use these sales figures to determine the merits of Drew's appeal. The pettiness I refer to is Drew's misrepresented issue of wings vs litter, and his guesswork tactics to establish the actual sales records of this locally owned, franchised retailer. --Richard
I think Richard just volunteered to be the H Street litter czar. Maybe he can split his duties with Russ.
Richard, what is you overall H Street litter plan, including, what are you personally going to do beyond volunteering other people to work on this issue?
Talk is cheap. If you got off your ass and actually tried to do something useful, you would find things aren't as simple as they appear from your keyboard and monitor.
Richard,
So 7-Eleven offered to show its sales data to the ANC to head off the appeal? Oh wait, no it didn't. So in the absence of that data, how is the ANC supposed to know what percentage of food sales are fast food? They certainly aren't making up the difference in sale of milk and eggs.
Since when did it become the ANC's direct responsibility to monitor, enforce and administer all laws of the District Government? Perhaps a civics lesson will reveal that there are departments within District Government, at the Executive level, to carry-out those functions. It is my understanding the ANC's are advisory-capacity, non-regulatory, non-enforcement entities. DC.gov will give you the specific definitions, for the record. As for sales records of any businesses, I'm not sure many would freely open up their books to the public, but I suspect 7-Eleven has a national policy to comply with all local authorities of government, and I'm sure Drew's appeal process will be acted upon accordingly to the proper DC authorities. Let the public process begin!
if a patron leaves the pug, and does something wrong, in 9 cases out of 10, i would bear the brunt of that action.it's not right or wrong i suppose, just the way it is in dc. i like the 7 11,( a little too bright for me, but i guess that discourages bad behavior from our jungle animals) but i think they knew this kind of thing is part of doing business. i think drew is trying to combat the littering in one of the only ways available to him and the community. clearly his task is made more difficult because only black people litter, and only gentrifiers, gays and dog owners dispose of their trash. ok that's sarcasm. until the city governemnt can handle its business on a day to day basis, i think the only solution is calling someone a faggot ass on a blog.
see you at the pug tonight for trash and whisky.
tony
Richard: cite, please.
Thanks in advance.
Anon 4:34pm: right, ANCs act in an advisory role; and that's what ANC-6A is doing, advising the District government that their regulations are being skirted. That's the same thing ANC-6A does when it contacts DCRA over a curb cut without a variance, or construction work happening on a weekend/holiday, or a zillion other similar things that ANCs do all the time. Well, ones that actually do anything, anyway.
The District will take the ANC's report under advisement, and act as they see fit, as they always do.
The fact that Richard has gone silent makes me hope he is off devising his anti-litter master plan for all of H St. Richard, can you give us periodic updates on your progress? Its great when
someone like yourself steps up to the plate on these seemingly intractable issues. Make sure you keep Russ in the loop -- you guys are making a real difference!!
Davy Crocket's Hat,
I haven't really used either of those. Moving things sounds a little complicated.
If anonymous comments were disallowed nearly 50% of this discussion alone would not have taken place. I think it would fail miserably and bring the free excange of ideas on this blog to a hault. The anonymous commenters stimulate the discussion as much as PooPoo, Roby, Tony, etc. In fact, if you respond to an anoymous comment and are one of the ones calling for everyone to identify themselves, then you are being very hypocritical. But it's not my blog.
-- Anonymous
Drew, your efforts would be better spent getting MPD to actually enforce littering laws. Seriously, the problem isn't 7-11 it's a broken culture of "throw the shit on the ground and make the man clean up after me."
Fine the shit out of them... if they don't pay make them spend one hour for every DOLLAR of the fine they don't pay picking up trash.
So Drew, please post a copy of your appeal to MPD to enforce current laws rather that screwing with those that have invested in the community.
"Talk is cheap. If you got off your ass and actually tried to do something useful, you would find things aren't as simple as they appear from your keyboard and monitor."
A Call To Action
What: The Zoning Commission Public Hearing on Case
When: December 7th at 1pm (view and download the calendar event)
Where: Second Floor in Room 220 South at One Judiciary Square, 441 4th Street, NW
How:
Anybody can come testify at the hearing, just by showing up. If you feel you are disproportionately affected, you have until COB today to file form 140 to be a party in the case. "A party has the right to cross-examine witnesses, submit proposed findings of fact and conclusions of law, receive a copy of the written decision of the Zoning Commission or Board of Zoning Adjustment, and exercise any other rights of parties as specified in the Zoning Regulations." You are not require to complete this form if you simply wish to testify at the hearing
For those interested but too busy, you can also see a video of the hearing afterwards.
Long live the do-ocracy!
Dan
P.S. dave b, the regulations are admittedly not easy to find on Google. The H Street Overallay regulation 11 DCMR §§1320.4(c) requiring fast food establishments to apply for zoning relief can be found here. Amendment 11 DCMR §199.1 defining a fast food establishment can be found here.
The Truth,
YOUR efforts would be better spent trying to get MPD to enforce the littering laws rather than writing blog comments. Please get in touch with Richard and Russ and the three of you can come up with a comprehensive fix for the H Street litter problem...
Your post raises a more general question... Do blog commenters every do anything productive, or do they just volunteer others for projects and think of themselves as the "idea person" above any real work?
Truth you are right. Enforce the laws...like litter laws AND zoining laws. 7-11 is skirting zoing laws by claming to be grocery or convenience store when it is clearly all about the fast food.
I'll follow the suggested rules of being polite and respectful, resisting the urge to bash back at those who so freely insult and ridicule other's honestly felt opinions and viewpoints. I'll first address the earlier inquiries addressed (accused) towards me in previous posts, i.e. asking for citation to earlier comments (statistics will be verified during the appeals process, and as the matter is now in the legal hands of DC government, I feel no need to divulge those statistics now) BTW, and to address my credentials for involvement of environmental matters such as litter (begining as a volunteer while in high school in 1970, then throughout a professional career in environmental education, etc.) I think I shall refrain from posting my entire biography of 40 years of direct civic activities here. But, I digress, to fend off the attacks made to me earlier. My real point of this post is to lower my standards, to get on level with some of the critics posting meaningless, useless attacks here and sarcastically comment on the recent suggestion that Russ, The Truth and myself get together to form the comprehensive litter plan for H Street. The anonymous critic has a point, Russ and The Truth, we should band together to get 7-Eleven closed, so thereafter, the entire litter problem of H Street, and the rest of the World, will be solved forever, by this one simple act. Let's get together at Popeye's this afternoon to forumulate our new plan over some spicy hot Popeye's wings!!!! And, just for clarification, I've signed all of my posts by name, except yesterdays at 4:34, which I forgot to sign. And, as I stated before, let the process continue, Zoning appeals meeting will be on Tuesday, Dec. 7. Check their calendar for place and time. Until then, I'm over and out for here. --Richard
Two quick thought: first, I hardly see how it's relevant that "lots of other establishments are the source of trash". That's all great and everything, but it's no justification for adding to the general shit-show.
Second, if 7-11 meets the legal definition for a fast-food franchise, then it's perfectly reasonable for the ANC to lobby the appropriate agencies to have it classified as such--just as it would be the responsibility of any other private citizen to do.
Now 7-11 may not meet that definition; and they have no legal obligation to provide hard data to Drew. But it's certainly within Drew's purview to notify the authorities if he thinks the store has been mis-classified, just as it's anyone else's right to, say, notify the city about an abandoned house on their block.
Finally, yes, it's perfectly reasonable for us (DC residents) to require establishments who contribute "negative externalities" to our neighborhoods to contribute to the mitigation of those externalities.
If your business model depends on selling food wrapped in trash to cretins who then shit all over the sidewalk, you may be required to clean up after your clients.
In the defense of litters, many of them were never taught NOT to litter. I once confronted a teenage girl for littering, and she said "But I put it in the tree box!" She thought that was the proper thing to do. She probably witnessed her adults littering every day of her life.
As far as anecdotes, my favorite littering anecdote ever was one posted as a comment on Frozen Tropics. Apparently, some little boy was literally "on his mama's knee", sitting on the sidewalk, balling up trash, and throwing it into the streets. He nearly hit some passers-by, and his mother knocked him upside his head, and grunted, "Say 'scuse me!!"
Ah, H Street! We'll miss you when you're gone!
Richard -- so, to summarize your post, you don't have any evidence to support your assertion.
That's all I needed to know. Thanks.
I still don't get all the animosity. Richard, i'll buy you a shot wed nite at le pug. Not sure why folks are getting angry about efforts to clean up where you live. You have to use the tools available to you.
tonyt
the pug.
Drew you can have a whiskey on me as well.
Happy Thanksgiving
Richard,
Its ironic how you ask everyone to respect the rules to be polite only after you feel "attacked", "insulted" and "ridiculed". How were you attacked? Someone asked what you were doing on the litter issue that you were telling other people to take the lead on? You sure have thin skin. Here is a clue, Richard -- you were far from polite in your earlier posts. If you can't withstand the criticism that you are just another blog commenter who thinks of himself as the "idea guy" but wants others to do any real work, stop posting to FT.
BTW, your reference to Popeye's was ridiculous. I get far more trash in my yard branded with 7-11's logo than I do from Popeye's. At least Popeye's has tables where people can get their fast food inside at a table and dispose of their trash within the store rather than in my yard.
I have nothing to say, i just want this thread to. Get to 100 comments. The pug is open thanksgiving night about 830. Come in and get littered!
Tonyt
the pug
@inked - Yeah, migrating is annoying. I understand allowing anon commenters. Though I do think that people on here get confused about the difference between "anonymous" and posting under an unregistered name (no email required!) to aid in replying to comments.
If you are interested I think you can alter blogger to let you use a system like IntenseDebate: http://intensedebate.com/ which allows for threaded comments. So at least you can collapse name calling...
Have a good Thanksgiving all.
Wow, I don't read this for 2 days and when I do I see that people have nothing better to do than bash others but not provide alternative ideas. If everyone would put this energy into actually doing something constructive their would be no litter problem. How many people actually get out and sweep the sidewalk or street occasionally? To bad we cannot set a time, say Wednesday at 6pm, and at that time once a week everyone comes out and spends 15 minutes sweeping and meeting their neighbors. Image what could be accomplished. Ok off my soapbox, go back to bashing me for posing suggestions vice just bitching about everyone.
Signed Russ, so you can feel free to bash me again.
As someone who lives across the street from the 7-11, I have mixed feelings on this. Their customers generate increased trash but is that their fault? Having said that, if they're deemed a fast food establishment then they deserve to be regulated as such. Trash has always been a problem around my home because some people simply weren't taught better. I live on the alley on 10th street and I'm much more concerned about the men (and sometimes women) who urinate in the alley and on my house. Unbelievable. The food wrappers and beer bottles don't help matters but maybe we could all agree that what we need is an increased police presence. And not just in the 7-11 hanging out as they were Saturday evening around 5p.m. I'm not questioning their motives -- maybe they were both on break -- but it would be great if they "hung out" outside in full view of the community.
Drew M
How about we petition 7-11 corporate to use bio-degradable packaging? It exist and they can do it. Will it stop the litter issue? Probably not, still.
And the Zoning Appeal results are in.....sanity scores!!!! Richard
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