A look at what's going on in Trinidad, on H Street, and in the larger area north of Capitol Hill.
Wednesday, March 08, 2006
Anybody Go to the Streetscape Open House?
Did anybody attend last night's DDOT/Great Streets open house?
15 comments:
Anonymous
said...
I attended last night for a little while. Generally, I was favorably impressed with the design effort. I liked the public park, green space and especially the mural planned for the "Starburst" intersection. Along H Street itself, the benches, public art and better treebox covers (porous pavers) were nice touches.
I was particularly pleased to see that they are also focusing on restoring trees for the side streets. If they had only focused on H Street itself, the result could have been like applying a cheap veneer to a countertop, but leaving the cabinet doors looking pretty ragged.
Finally, the proposed streetcar design carries over the design from the Circulator buses, which is at least better than the other pictures I'd seen of how the streetcars might look. I'm not a huge fan of the Circulator design, but it does have a public art feel to it--much moreso than some other options.
It seems that the District is applying a good amount of steam to the effort, so hopefully it will progress fairly quickly.
I have a question, and please correct me if you think I am wrong on this, but won't having park benches just encourage derelicts, drug dealers, and other undesirable elements to sit down and stay a while instead of moving on. Just look Back to when F street downtown was closed off in by the library and where the spy museum is now. I remember it perpetually reeked of urine.
I believe they are using benches specifically built to combat this issue. You can do this in a few ways. Here are a couple of of them: 1. make the seat shallow, so it isn't very comfortable to sleep on. 2. put dividers on the bench (you see these sometimes downtown) so you can't lie down on the bench. People already sleep on the street on H Street. I don't think that installing benches with dividers will add any extra encouragement to sleep in the plaza.
I should have been clearer about the benches--they looked like the same ones they have downtown. They have a fairly narrow seat, and have a middle armrest to discourage sleeping on them.
I thought the presentation was quite informative and well presented. I took some time to speak with the representatives from the architectural firms involved in the streetscape project and learned more about the thought process behind designing things as they are slated. It was nice to see the actual building materials as well. My only concern is when the construction will actually start. Talking to the architectural representatives, they were trowing around late 2006, early 2007. In any case, they thought the project would be 18 months to completion.
We went around 6. It was pretty packed and they had all the mock-ups on posterboard around the space. The main impression I took away was that they are planting a lot of trees and much bigger ones than what we have now. It all seemed good. I spoke with the woman holding up the streetcar mockup. Sh said that the street car would go "from Bladensburg Road to Second street." And in the future perhaps connect to Union Station or "downtown." So great if there's Harris Teeter to go to but not so great if there's nothing at the end of H but the bridge.
DDOT is still trying to decide if the streetcar will terminate inside of Union Station (there is an unused tunnel that starts at 2nd Street and ends at the actual Metro Station) or send the streetcar over the bridge towards the convention center.
My goal is to "encourage" them to make this decision this year so we can move forward with pushing the city to purchase the streetcars.
Joe, thanks for the great information. I (among many, probably) really appreciate the way that you and your fellow Commissioners on ANC 6A have gotten out in front of the District on this issue, and reached out to 6C and the other affected ANCs.
I agree that DDOT really needs to make a determination on where the line will terminate in order for the project to move forward. Or at least to move forward with a hope of success.
The issue of where to terminate the line smells like the kind of detail the District (and, in fairness many other cities) have been notorious for overlooking in the past--with disasterous results.
I'm not sure how I feel about the two options--on the one hand, terminating at the metro makes for seamless transportation throughout the Metro system, and on the other, if the plan is to ultimately extend the line all the way to Georgetown, going over the bridge may be best.
Off the top of my head, I would lean toward terminating at the Metro station, as it would make it easier for people throughout the greater DC area to come out and experience H Street. Definitely something that needs lots of public input.
my vote is for going over the bridge. that way, it can be left open to continue on to chinatown eventually. or, at least until then it will put you on mass ave to get access downtown.
It is my understanding DDOT is concerned the Hopscotch Bridge won't be able to support the weight of a streetcar line over it. I believe there is talk of taking the line underneath the Union Station train tracks (and the bridge) via the old H St. tunnel that was in use before the bridge was built. Apparently, this thruway still exists today. I think that would make more sense. For one, a larger streetcar stop area could be built in this space independent of H St. traffic for a stop that promises to be quite busy. This all depends on there being an easy way to connect to Union Station and the metro from under there as well. In addition, in the short term before the line is extended beyond Union Station, this under the tracks thruway may provide enough room for a turnaround point for the streetcars.
It is my understanding DDOT is concerned the Hopscotch Bridge won't be able to support the weight of a streetcar line over it. I believe there is talk of taking the line underneath the Union Station train tracks (and the bridge) via the old H St. tunnel that was in use before the bridge was built. Apparently, this thruway still exists today. I think that would make more sense. For one, a larger streetcar stop area could be built in this space independent of H St. traffic for a stop that promises to be quite busy. This all depends on there being an easy way to connect to Union Station and the metro from under there as well. In addition, in the short term before the line is extended beyond Union Station, this under the tracks thruway may provide enough room for a turnaround point for the streetcars.
If the tunnel really goes through to the other side, I don't see why the streetcar couldn't connect to red line at Union Station for the short term, AND then later extend through to Georgetown.
In the long term, I wouldn't mind seeing Hopscotch bridge disappear. The K St. underpass works pretty well. A lot of people less familiar with the city see the bridge as the marker between the good side of town and the "bad" side. At the very least, it's creates a huge visual divider between H St., NE and the rest of the city.
The bridge also reeks of a freeway overpass and makes H St. so automoblie-centric, which is contrary to the whole new H St. concept. Not to mention the bridge is an exhausting climb on my bike.
15 comments:
I attended last night for a little while. Generally, I was favorably impressed with the design effort. I liked the public park, green space and especially the mural planned for the "Starburst" intersection. Along H Street itself, the benches, public art and better treebox covers (porous pavers) were nice touches.
I was particularly pleased to see that they are also focusing on restoring trees for the side streets. If they had only focused on H Street itself, the result could have been like applying a cheap veneer to a countertop, but leaving the cabinet doors looking pretty ragged.
Finally, the proposed streetcar design carries over the design from the Circulator buses, which is at least better than the other pictures I'd seen of how the streetcars might look. I'm not a huge fan of the Circulator design, but it does have a public art feel to it--much moreso than some other options.
It seems that the District is applying a good amount of steam to the effort, so hopefully it will progress fairly quickly.
Did they pass out/have any images, a printed report?
I have a question, and please correct me if you think I am wrong on this, but won't having park benches just encourage derelicts, drug dealers, and other undesirable elements to sit down and stay a while instead of moving on. Just look Back to when F street downtown was closed off in by the library and where the spy museum is now. I remember it perpetually reeked of urine.
I believe they are using benches specifically built to combat this issue. You can do this in a few ways. Here are a couple of of them:
1. make the seat shallow, so it isn't very comfortable to sleep on.
2. put dividers on the bench (you see these sometimes downtown) so you can't lie down on the bench.
People already sleep on the street on H Street. I don't think that installing benches with dividers will add any extra encouragement to sleep in the plaza.
I should have been clearer about the benches--they looked like the same ones they have downtown. They have a fairly narrow seat, and have a middle armrest to discourage sleeping on them.
I thought the presentation was quite informative and well presented. I took some time to speak with the representatives from the architectural firms involved in the streetscape project and learned more about the thought process behind designing things as they are slated. It was nice to see the actual building materials as well. My only concern is when the construction will actually start. Talking to the architectural representatives, they were trowing around late 2006, early 2007. In any case, they thought the project would be 18 months to completion.
We went around 6. It was pretty packed and they had all the mock-ups on posterboard around the space. The main impression I took away was that they are planting a lot of trees and much bigger ones than what we have now. It all seemed good. I spoke with the woman holding up the streetcar mockup. Sh said that the street car would go "from Bladensburg Road to Second street." And in the future perhaps connect to Union Station or "downtown." So great if there's Harris Teeter to go to but not so great if there's nothing at the end of H but the bridge.
DDOT is still trying to decide if the streetcar will terminate inside of Union Station (there is an unused tunnel that starts at 2nd Street and ends at the actual Metro Station) or send the streetcar over the bridge towards the convention center.
My goal is to "encourage" them to make this decision this year so we can move forward with pushing the city to purchase the streetcars.
Joe, thanks for the great information. I (among many, probably) really appreciate the way that you and your fellow Commissioners on ANC 6A have gotten out in front of the District on this issue, and reached out to 6C and the other affected ANCs.
I agree that DDOT really needs to make a determination on where the line will terminate in order for the project to move forward. Or at least to move forward with a hope of success.
The issue of where to terminate the line smells like the kind of detail the District (and, in fairness many other cities) have been notorious for overlooking in the past--with disasterous results.
I'm not sure how I feel about the two options--on the one hand, terminating at the metro makes for seamless transportation throughout the Metro system, and on the other, if the plan is to ultimately extend the line all the way to Georgetown, going over the bridge may be best.
Off the top of my head, I would lean toward terminating at the Metro station, as it would make it easier for people throughout the greater DC area to come out and experience H Street. Definitely something that needs lots of public input.
What do other people think?
i'd prefer if it went over the bridge!
but thats because i take the 80 bus down north capitol.
i would just hop on the X2 instead of walking up and over the hill.
also, seeing the number of people that wait for the X2 on the sw corner of North Cap and H seems like another good reason to terminate it there.
maybe we can work on a trolley line connecting u street an d h street via florida avenue!
my vote is for going over the bridge. that way, it can be left open to continue on to chinatown eventually. or, at least until then it will put you on mass ave to get access downtown.
It is my understanding DDOT is concerned the Hopscotch Bridge won't be able to support the weight of a streetcar line over it. I believe there is talk of taking the line underneath the Union Station train tracks (and the bridge) via the old H St. tunnel that was in use before the bridge was built. Apparently, this thruway still exists today. I think that would make more sense. For one, a larger streetcar stop area could be built in this space independent of H St. traffic for a stop that promises to be quite busy. This all depends on there being an easy way to connect to Union Station and the metro from under there as well. In addition, in the short term before the line is extended beyond Union Station, this under the tracks thruway may provide enough room for a turnaround point for the streetcars.
It is my understanding DDOT is concerned the Hopscotch Bridge won't be able to support the weight of a streetcar line over it. I believe there is talk of taking the line underneath the Union Station train tracks (and the bridge) via the old H St. tunnel that was in use before the bridge was built. Apparently, this thruway still exists today. I think that would make more sense. For one, a larger streetcar stop area could be built in this space independent of H St. traffic for a stop that promises to be quite busy. This all depends on there being an easy way to connect to Union Station and the metro from under there as well. In addition, in the short term before the line is extended beyond Union Station, this under the tracks thruway may provide enough room for a turnaround point for the streetcars.
This makes sense Omar. I haven't been able to make the meetings lately, so I didn't know this was a concern. Thanks.
If the tunnel really goes through to the other side, I don't see why the streetcar couldn't connect to red line at Union Station for the short term, AND then later extend through to Georgetown.
In the long term, I wouldn't mind seeing Hopscotch bridge disappear. The K St. underpass works pretty well. A lot of people less familiar with the city see the bridge as the marker between the good side of town and the "bad" side. At the very least, it's creates a huge visual divider between H St., NE and the rest of the city.
The bridge also reeks of a freeway overpass and makes H St. so automoblie-centric, which is contrary to the whole new H St. concept. Not to mention the bridge is an exhausting climb on my bike.
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