In Union Station, UNLESS there is a pleasant (and well-marked) back entrance from H St. Right now, the trek through the parking lot is confusing and unappealing. And no one will use it if they have to go out the front and walk 4 blocks to get to H St.
If this is the tunnel directly under the bridge that opens out onto 2d then it might be nice if they actually finished that off as a stop itself. It could brighten up the area there, which will soon look quite different once the Abdo building is finished and Building 3 of Station Place is built. They could even put in some lights under the bridge like those on 8th street SE that extend the street under the interstate. There is funding to finish off 2d street, which I hope they do soon as the potholes round there are nasty.
Into Union Station definitely gets my vote. If an unused tunnel to the metro could be employed, that would make a great seamless transition to H. Direct access to Union Station and the Red Line brings access to the whole city.
The H. Street Streetcar needs to terminate at Union Station. When I go to Silver Spring, I usually bypass Union Station and jump on the red line at Gallery Place. The walk from H Street to Union Station is unappealing. Terminating at Union Station would also fill a community need for connecting H Street with Union Station. We already have a H Street Gallery Place connection. Why can't it stop at Union Station and Gallery Place?
Wow. I never realized that the opening under the bridge was actually a tunnel that leads into Union Station. Now that I know what/where we're talking about it seems an ideal solution to the issue of how to link the Streetcar at the Western end with other Metro transportation.
Abdo's plan calls for the entrance to the underground parking to be immediately adjacent to the (dark, dank, dirty, dangerous) under side of the Hopscotch Bridge. So, between running the streetcar line into/through the existing tunnel and having the entrance to Abdo's parking, suddenly that small area would have much more traffic, lighting and activity (the lack of which primarily causes the dark, dank, dirty and dangerous conditions...)
Not linking the streetcar to Union Station merely continues all the problems that "lack of articulation" between H Street transit and Union Station transit.
I will say I have been raising this issue since 2001 and the "Strategic Neighborhood Action Plan."
The Baltimore Light Rail has a spur to Penn Station, and not every LR train goes to Penn Station.
However, I don't think that's a solution. I think the streetcar needs to be routed to/from Union Station for H Street, and then up Massachusetts Avenue to the Convention Center and points downtown.
The stretch of H Street between North Capitol and 4th Street NW can afford to not have the streetcar.
Transit proposals in the NoMA plan propose a third circulator to the waterfront (a north-south routing).
This could become a streetcar route, just like the Portland Streetcar route provides service to the Pearl District, an area with a lot of redevelopment similarities (although the PD possesses more extant large historic buildings capable of adaptive reuse).
There's a c. 1940 picture of the old H St. underpass that the Hopscotch Bridge replaced on page 24 of the Existing Conditions Assessment from the H St. Transportation Study. Nice picture that depicts how the streetcar once navigated this part of H St. This document is a good read for anyone interested in learning more about H Street's history.
I'm sure that's the photo we used in the Capitol Hill North/Near Northeast Cultural and Social History brochure, which should be available on the www.hstreetdc.com website. Anyway, that's from the first book on the DC Transit system.
Obviously none of you use the X2 route. You realize that the Street Car plan really does nothing to alleviate the issues associated with the X2 route, right? Also the Street Car plan really does nothing to serve the H Street community. How many of you currently hop on the X2 to get to Union station? My guess is only a few. Sure, you can get on the Street car to connect to the redline, but do you get on the X2 now to connect to the redline? Probably not. How about going downtown via surface streets. Would you plan to get on the street car and then get off to connect to the X2? It will just be easier to get on the X2 to go downtown. I would like to see a survey to see how the people who live around H street plan to use the Street car. I have no plans to use it because it would increase my travel time to get to my destination, but it sure will look cute running down 15 blocks, turning around and running 15 blocks back.
H Street community = residents, merchants, and customers of businesses.
The X bus is great for direct shots into downtown. It doesn't really serve any constituency other than the residents. There are other constituencies to serve.
Union Station. I live near H street and I do take many of the buses that run in the neighborhood including the X2. I often take the metro as well and I would have no problem getting off at Union Station and transfering to the streetcar. Particularly if the streetcar runs regularly like the circulator.
If the streetcar just terminates at H Street I doubt that I would use it on a regular basis. Why would I walk around Union Station? Also, I doubt that folks that live in other parts of town that ride metro would want to walk around the station either.
A direct connection into Union Station seems to be the most logical...connection to the Red Line, MARC, Amtrak and the Circulator. At present I ride my bike everyday to Union Station from 12th Street to catch the Metro. I could see the street car functioning as both a commuter route and a means of bringing people to and from H street for entertainment purposes. Bottom line, I think a termination at a Metro stop is requisite to make it fully functional.
While I respect the opinion mentioned about the X2 already running on H Street, I think other comments are right-on.
The Streetcar line has never been intended to substitute for the X2, and couldn't even if the District tried. It serves a wholly different purposed--getting lots of people directly downtown from H Street and points beyond.
I and many of my neighbors who have been watching the development (I live right near the Hopscotch Bridge) have been cheering the coming of the Streetcar line because we will be able to go to places like the Atlas, H Street Playhouse, The Argonaut, etc. sooooo much easier. Now, we have to take a fairly long walk (at least we can talk to eachother), ride bikes, or drive and try desperately to find parking.
Getting people to come out and experience the many wonderful things currently on H Street and those to come...making it easy...accessible from many parts of the Metro area...these are the reasons for the Streetcar line, not replacment of the X2.
Cheers to Inked for putting up the poll I (and perhaps others suggested). Really neat way for folks to quickly weigh in on an issue, and so far, results support what I thought was the general feeling--that the line should be brought into Union Station. It can always be brought out the other side if the line is expanded into downtown, etc.
The devil is in the details on this question. There's an awful lot of enthusiasm on this comment page about an idea that is pretty undefined. I'm not for or against this. I want more information. For example:
* What exactly do you mean by connecting to Union Station? How far would the rider need to walk? Would this idea have the streetcar terminating in the already confusing area in front of the train station?
* What's the cost tradeoff between connecting to Union Station and travelling further down H Street?
* How far would it go down H if it didn't go to Union Station?
* Where is the tunnel exactly and how would this work? I've walked underneath the H Street bridge many times but don't have any idea what exactly you are describing.
* If the trolley doesn't go to Union Station, how far would the riders have to walk for a transfer to the Red Line?
* What role will the new buildings along H Street play in this? For example, it might be possible to construct a passageway through the new buildings (as yet unbuilt) over the train tracks? If so, this might be a great alternative to an expensive tunnel.
* There are many new condos being built between North Capitol and Mt. Vernon Square. Might the trolley -- if it extended over there -- be a good way to bring those residents to the H Street corridor?
My point here is that we need information before we start jumping to any conclusions about what should or shouldn't be done with this trolley route.
If anybody knows the answers to these questions please share them. I'd love to learn more about this.
Just wanted to raise an issue I haven't seen addressed yet -- will the choice of location impact fares?
For example, if the streetcar goes directly into Union Station, will you be able to transfer from the Metro to the streetcar without paying a new fare since you have not left the station? If the stop is outside Union Station will you need to pay twice (once when you get on the Metro, once when you get on the streetcar)?
I realize streetcars and buses normally have a flat fare since you do not have turnstiles when you exit. But my fondest hope is that the new system will function the same as transfering from one Metro line to another (with price based on distance but with only one "base" fare).
Surely we can make the "SmartTrip" cards that smart. It would sure be the smart move for H Street.
22 comments:
outside on H street it would be perfect if the akridge air rights over union station's tracks are to be utilized for what they had planned.
Under the bridge in the old tunnel. I remember it being open when I was a kid.
In Union Station, UNLESS there is a pleasant (and well-marked) back entrance from H St. Right now, the trek through the parking lot is confusing and unappealing. And no one will use it if they have to go out the front and walk 4 blocks to get to H St.
If this is the tunnel directly under the bridge that opens out onto 2d then it might be nice if they actually finished that off as a stop itself. It could brighten up the area there, which will soon look quite different once the Abdo building is finished and Building 3 of Station Place is built. They could even put in some lights under the bridge like those on 8th street SE that extend the street under the interstate. There is funding to finish off 2d street, which I hope they do soon as the potholes round there are nasty.
Into Union Station definitely gets my vote. If an unused tunnel to the metro could be employed, that would make a great seamless transition to H. Direct access to Union Station and the Red Line brings access to the whole city.
My vote is for into Union Station.
The H. Street Streetcar needs to terminate at Union Station. When I go to Silver Spring, I usually bypass Union Station and jump on the red line at Gallery Place. The walk from H Street to Union Station is unappealing. Terminating at Union Station would also fill a community need for connecting H Street with Union Station. We already have a H Street Gallery Place connection. Why can't it stop at Union Station and Gallery Place?
Wow. I never realized that the opening under the bridge was actually a tunnel that leads into Union Station. Now that I know what/where we're talking about it seems an ideal solution to the issue of how to link the Streetcar at the Western end with other Metro transportation.
Abdo's plan calls for the entrance to the underground parking to be immediately adjacent to the (dark, dank, dirty, dangerous) under side of the Hopscotch Bridge. So, between running the streetcar line into/through the existing tunnel and having the entrance to Abdo's parking, suddenly that small area would have much more traffic, lighting and activity (the lack of which primarily causes the dark, dank, dirty and dangerous conditions...)
Not linking the streetcar to Union Station merely continues all the problems that "lack of articulation" between H Street transit and Union Station transit.
I will say I have been raising this issue since 2001 and the "Strategic Neighborhood Action Plan."
The Baltimore Light Rail has a spur to Penn Station, and not every LR train goes to Penn Station.
However, I don't think that's a solution. I think the streetcar needs to be routed to/from Union Station for H Street, and then up Massachusetts Avenue to the Convention Center and points downtown.
The stretch of H Street between North Capitol and 4th Street NW can afford to not have the streetcar.
Transit proposals in the NoMA plan propose a third circulator to the waterfront (a north-south routing).
This could become a streetcar route, just like the Portland Streetcar route provides service to the Pearl District, an area with a lot of redevelopment similarities (although the PD possesses more extant large historic buildings capable of adaptive reuse).
There's a c. 1940 picture of the old H St. underpass that the Hopscotch Bridge replaced on page 24 of the Existing Conditions Assessment from the H St. Transportation Study. Nice picture that depicts how the streetcar once navigated this part of H St. This document is a good read for anyone interested in learning more about H Street's history.
Here's the link:
http://www.bakerprojects.com/hstreetne/rpt_eca.asp?pdf=ecaRpt_lr.pdf#pdf
Oops, I meant p. "2-4"
I'm sure that's the photo we used in the Capitol Hill North/Near Northeast Cultural and Social History brochure, which should be available on the www.hstreetdc.com website. Anyway, that's from the first book on the DC Transit system.
Definately inside Union Station...
Obviously none of you use the X2 route. You realize that the Street Car plan really does nothing to alleviate the issues associated with the X2 route, right? Also the Street Car plan really does nothing to serve the H Street community. How many of you currently hop on the X2 to get to Union station? My guess is only a few. Sure, you can get on the Street car to connect to the redline, but do you get on the X2 now to connect to the redline? Probably not. How about going downtown via surface streets. Would you plan to get on the street car and then get off to connect to the X2? It will just be easier to get on the X2 to go downtown. I would like to see a survey to see how the people who live around H street plan to use the Street car. I have no plans to use it because it would increase my travel time to get to my destination, but it sure will look cute running down 15 blocks, turning around and running 15 blocks back.
H Street community = residents, merchants, and customers of businesses.
The X bus is great for direct shots into downtown. It doesn't really serve any constituency other than the residents. There are other constituencies to serve.
It doesn't connect to Union Station.
The streetcar will serve other uses.
I used to ride the X bus daily, until I started biking.
I have ridden and continue to ride buses.
Union Station. I live near H street and I do take many of the buses that run in the neighborhood including the X2. I often take the metro as well and I would have no problem getting off at Union Station and transfering to the streetcar. Particularly if the streetcar runs regularly like the circulator.
If the streetcar just terminates at H Street I doubt that I would use it on a regular basis. Why would I walk around Union Station? Also, I doubt that folks that live in other parts of town that ride metro would want to walk around the station either.
A direct connection into Union Station seems to be the most logical...connection to the Red Line, MARC, Amtrak and the Circulator. At present I ride my bike everyday to Union Station from 12th Street to catch the Metro. I could see the street car functioning as both a commuter route and a means of bringing people to and from H street for entertainment purposes. Bottom line, I think a termination at a Metro stop is requisite to make it fully functional.
While I respect the opinion mentioned about the X2 already running on H Street, I think other comments are right-on.
The Streetcar line has never been intended to substitute for the X2, and couldn't even if the District tried. It serves a wholly different purposed--getting lots of people directly downtown from H Street and points beyond.
I and many of my neighbors who have been watching the development (I live right near the Hopscotch Bridge) have been cheering the coming of the Streetcar line because we will be able to go to places like the Atlas, H Street Playhouse, The Argonaut, etc. sooooo much easier. Now, we have to take a fairly long walk (at least we can talk to eachother), ride bikes, or drive and try desperately to find parking.
Getting people to come out and experience the many wonderful things currently on H Street and those to come...making it easy...accessible from many parts of the Metro area...these are the reasons for the Streetcar line, not replacment of the X2.
Cheers to Inked for putting up the poll I (and perhaps others suggested). Really neat way for folks to quickly weigh in on an issue, and so far, results support what I thought was the general feeling--that the line should be brought into Union Station. It can always be brought out the other side if the line is expanded into downtown, etc.
Yes I too want the best of both worlds. I would like the Street Car to go inside Union Station but also continue on to Gallery Place.
The devil is in the details on this question. There's an awful lot of enthusiasm on this comment page about an idea that is pretty undefined. I'm not for or against this. I want more information. For example:
* What exactly do you mean by connecting to Union Station? How far would the rider need to walk? Would this idea have the streetcar terminating in the already confusing area in front of the train station?
* What's the cost tradeoff between connecting to Union Station and travelling further down H Street?
* How far would it go down H if it didn't go to Union Station?
* Where is the tunnel exactly and how would this work? I've walked underneath the H Street bridge many times but don't have any idea what exactly you are describing.
* If the trolley doesn't go to Union Station, how far would the riders have to walk for a transfer to the Red Line?
* What role will the new buildings along H Street play in this? For example, it might be possible to construct a passageway through the new buildings (as yet unbuilt) over the train tracks? If so, this might be a great alternative to an expensive tunnel.
* There are many new condos being built between North Capitol and Mt. Vernon Square. Might the trolley -- if it extended over there -- be a good way to bring those residents to the H Street corridor?
My point here is that we need information before we start jumping to any conclusions about what should or shouldn't be done with this trolley route.
If anybody knows the answers to these questions please share them. I'd love to learn more about this.
-Brendan
Just wanted to raise an issue I haven't seen addressed yet -- will the choice of location impact fares?
For example, if the streetcar goes directly into Union Station, will you be able to transfer from the Metro to the streetcar without paying a new fare since you have not left the station? If the stop is outside Union Station will you need to pay twice (once when you get on the Metro, once when you get on the streetcar)?
I realize streetcars and buses normally have a flat fare since you do not have turnstiles when you exit. But my fondest hope is that the new system will function the same as transfering from one Metro line to another (with price based on distance but with only one "base" fare).
Surely we can make the "SmartTrip" cards that smart. It would sure be the smart move for H Street.
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