A look at what's going on in Trinidad, on H Street, and in the larger area north of Capitol Hill.
Friday, May 11, 2007
Kojo Namdi: Strip Club Relocation
Catch the coverage live on today's Kojo Namdi Show (DC Politics Hour Edition). 88.5fm WAMU 12-1pm. Archives available online approximately 1 hour after the show ends.
18 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Jim Graham really did not address the issue why he isn't letting these clubs replace the "bad" clubs in his ward. It is disgusting that Graham is working to close clubs in his ward, while advocating placement of clubs in ward 5.
Yup. I'm completely unconvinced. Seems there are two classes of establishments here: 1) those whose businesses were shut down because the landlords sold out. They are owed *nothing* by *anyone*. 2) those whose businesses shut down because the building was taken under eminent domain. If the owners of the buildings were fairly compensated they are owed *nothing* by *anyone*. Let the market sort it out with the existing zoning and liquor laws unchanged. If there really is demand for these businesses, someone will pay NW DC rent to open one up. It's down to whose bidding the politicians will do...that of the strip joints' owners because of some promise that was made or that of the citizens. They work for the citizens and just need to be reminded of that fact.
what's fair compensation in this case, rob? again, the gay clubs settled in that area (the new stadium area) to begin with long ago because they _couldn't_ operate anywhere else without being illegally harassed or even physically attacked by citizens or the police themselves. so they made the best of the horrible surroundings they had. now what they had has been taken away by eminent domain, they're looking for somewhere else to go, and you're saying "hey, sucks to be gay."
if you really think all you have to have to open a gay strip club in NW is NW DC rent, you're living in a dream world -- the same bigotry that people have against a gay strip club in ivy city is just as present anywhere else.
and as far as working for the citizens, well, gay people are citizens too.
Why does DC have to find them somewhere to locate? Why not Arlington, PG, Fairfax or Montogomery county? Just like the homeless, the patron of these club come from all over and DC gets saddled with "solving " the social problem. If these places are so wonderful, and contribute to a community's well being then the market will find them a home. Bowie maybe???
I'd be happy to have one of these clubs on my block. I used to frequent these places before they were rudely booted from SE (at the city's bidding). How many shootings ever occurred at Wet or Les Cage? Zero. Everytime I was there the clientele were peaceful was mellow. At the risk of being politically incorrect, gay strip clubs are not conducive to stabbings and shootings. If you go to Montreal, Toronto, Barcelona, or many European cities, you will find these establishments situated downtown.
I think Jim Graham is trying to do the right thing. Why not Ward 1 or 3? Because there's no light industry in those wards! Jim is trying to minimize the impact of the clubs on residential areas by placing them in industrially-zoned areas. Just happens that Ward 5 has most of that land use in DC.
As far as I can tell, opponents to this measure are being led either by anti-gay bias, or by some misguided idea about what these places were like when they were open. - JM
Let's get our Gay clubs back in business and enjoy them. The only crime element at the former O St SE location where the street people harassing club's patrons.
I am opposed to locating the clubs on this site solely because of the proximity to the coming NY Ave Gateway mixed-use, mixed-income project. I am also opposed to opening any type of club (straight, gay, dance, etc.) in areas adjacent to residential developments.
Recently, someone wanted to open a huge (non-strip) nightclub on Congress NE, immediately West of 3rd Street North of L (residential, with new mixed-income residential coming immediately South of L).
Check into it if you care to. I and the Commissioner for that area (just North of mine) lead the charge and killed the application--because it is simply not an appropriate location for any club (even though it is zoned commercial).
The gay strip clubs deserve to re-open as they were promised, but it needs to be done with sensitivity to the surrounding area.
Again, the argument that if someone opposes the clubs locating on this site is can *only* be due to anti-gay bias is just wrong, and insults everyone's intelligence. Are there people who oppose the clubs on the basis of hatred? Sure. But don't alienate those of us who are not homophobic / anti-GLBT by lumping us in with that bad crowd.
You're right, the community did not want the strip club located on H Street. In any event, strip clubs are precluded from opening on H Street by the stautory requirements that they be a certain distance from residential properties (and churches, I think).
follow the requirements and the law. i don't care if a club is gay or not. i fully support any kind of club, but it needs to be in an appropriate area.
i don't want a straight or gay strip club in this area. it's not really the kind of area folks seem to think it is. ATF will open soon, and i doubt the federal government would want any kind of lacsivious (spelling) activity nearby - gay or straight.
folks need to pay attention to the future of the area. if a man or a woman wants to sit around and see naked bodies, do it at home, or drive a mile or two away from the kids.
it pisses me off that everyone makes a big deal about relocating the club as a GAY ISSUE. it's not.
it's a neighborhood issue.
i'm straight, by the way, but i've been to gay clubs because the music is great. and i don't really give a rat's ass about people's sexuality.
it's about creating a viable neighborhood.
and adhering to the law.
i'm no pushover. i'm sorry, but proclaiming that you're gay and deserving some special treatment is just wrong.
if that were the case, i'd have a house on hill, so to speak, because i'm ADD.
gimme a break.
if gay clubs, or straight clubs that have folks stripping want to relocate, find an appropriate location.
or not.
if a club gets to relocate in this hood, i'm gonna push for a giant dildo shop. just because. why can't dc have a red light district where everything goes? i say we should locate it right next to catholic university!
Dear Anonymous 12:41. I think you're reading an anti-gay bias into my comment where there isn't one. I'm an HRC member and I support gay rights completely--even up to the point where I'll put my body between any of my many gay friends and any person who's trying to harass them. My concerns are a) that I don't want drunks coming from these clubs tearing down W Virginia through my neighborhood on their way back to the Hill, and b) that this just seems like another case where the well-off people decide they don't want something so the city will bend the laws so it can go in Ward 5. As for "fair compensation" I'm sure that's been worked through in the courts in many eminent domain cases. If the owners of those buildings got screwed they should go to court. For instance I can imagine that if one of the club owners also owned the building, they could argue that the value of the building should also include the present value of the expected future profits of the club. But if the clubs were renting the buildings...the city doesn't owe a particular business or type of business a place to conduct that business. The owner of the building is compensated and the owner of the business should look at other places available to him/her given the existing laws and choose one...if none are available that are affordable, then, well, in a sense the market has spoken.
As for "gay people are citizens, too" of course I agree with that. I think a majority of Ward 5 citizens will oppose the clubs, though. It's disgusting that in 2007 so many people will oppose the clubs because of their homophobia but there are also many people who oppose them for other reasons.
Rob: The value of these businesses was in the business and liquor license. DC no longer allows new strip club licenses. Period. You have to open under an existing one. And the new DC laws governing where strip clubs can locate are obviously designed to get rid of them period. That's why strip clubs NEVER move of their own accord.
So when DC sets these very strict rules purposely then takes away the one property you can already legally operate in, you are screwed.
Hence, the monetary value loss.
As for well off vs non, isn't there more than one strip club in Georgetown and pricey downtown locations?
The point is that the city has made it astonishingly hard to find a location that a strip club can legally operate, including minimum distances from residences, churches, etc. So by definition most highly populated areas no longer fit.
Hi, Hillman, Ok your comment makes things a lot more clear...I couldn't figure out why someone in the gov't would make promises concerning the relocating of these businesses. So even though it seems pretty suspicious :-) that all these places happened to independently find their own new locations all in Ward 5 (that's what Graham said on the Kojo show) I'm maybe a little less up in arms about this.
"if you really think all you have to have to open a gay strip club in NW is NW DC rent, you're living in a dream world -- the same bigotry that people have against a gay strip club in ivy city is just as present anywhere else.
and as far as working for the citizens, well, gay people are citizens too."
I completely agree with anon. gay people are just as much citizens as the rest of us. The "gay" part doesnt make them not human.
Also, another point anon made, theres alot more to rent than opening up a strip club, any strip club, as a matter of fact, any business!
18 comments:
Jim Graham really did not address the issue why he isn't letting these clubs replace the "bad" clubs in his ward. It is disgusting that Graham is working to close clubs in his ward, while advocating placement of clubs in ward 5.
Yup. I'm completely unconvinced. Seems there are two classes of establishments here: 1) those whose businesses were shut down because the landlords sold out. They are owed *nothing* by *anyone*. 2) those whose businesses shut down because the building was taken under eminent domain. If the owners of the buildings were fairly compensated they are owed *nothing* by *anyone*. Let the market sort it out with the existing zoning and liquor laws unchanged. If there really is demand for these businesses, someone will pay NW DC rent to open one up.
It's down to whose bidding the politicians will do...that of the strip joints' owners because of some promise that was made or that of the citizens. They work for the citizens and just need to be reminded of that fact.
what's fair compensation in this case, rob? again, the gay clubs settled in that area (the new stadium area) to begin with long ago because they _couldn't_ operate anywhere else without being illegally harassed or even physically attacked by citizens or the police themselves. so they made the best of the horrible surroundings they had. now what they had has been taken away by eminent domain, they're looking for somewhere else to go, and you're saying "hey, sucks to be gay."
if you really think all you have to have to open a gay strip club in NW is NW DC rent, you're living in a dream world -- the same bigotry that people have against a gay strip club in ivy city is just as present anywhere else.
and as far as working for the citizens, well, gay people are citizens too.
Why does DC have to find them somewhere to locate? Why not Arlington, PG, Fairfax or Montogomery county? Just like the homeless, the patron of these club come from all over and DC gets saddled with "solving " the social problem. If these places are so wonderful, and contribute to a community's well being then the market will find them a home. Bowie maybe???
Exactly what 'social problems' do strip clubs create? Beyond what any other type of club creates?
I'd be happy to have one of these clubs on my block. I used to frequent these places before they were rudely booted from SE (at the city's bidding). How many shootings ever occurred at Wet or Les Cage? Zero. Everytime I was there the clientele were peaceful was mellow. At the risk of being politically incorrect, gay strip clubs are not conducive to stabbings and shootings. If you go to Montreal, Toronto, Barcelona, or many European cities, you will find these establishments situated downtown.
I think Jim Graham is trying to do the right thing. Why not Ward 1 or 3? Because there's no light industry in those wards! Jim is trying to minimize the impact of the clubs on residential areas by placing them in industrially-zoned areas. Just happens that Ward 5 has most of that land use in DC.
As far as I can tell, opponents to this measure are being led either by anti-gay bias, or by some misguided idea about what these places were like when they were open.
- JM
Let's get our Gay clubs back in business and enjoy them. The only crime element at the former O St SE location where the street people harassing club's patrons.
people...
there was actually a 'straight' club (read: women taking their clothes off) that was kicked off of the SW baseball field.
they tried to relocate onto H street, and were DENIED. not because of the gay element, but because folks don't want STRIP CLUBS IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
get off your high horses, and quit calling it a gay thing. it's not, as much as you try to make it to be some kind of gay bashing thing.
if you want to be a victim of some sort, go to checkers for a burger.
Anonymous,
I am opposed to locating the clubs on this site solely because of the proximity to the coming NY Ave Gateway mixed-use, mixed-income project. I am also opposed to opening any type of club (straight, gay, dance, etc.) in areas adjacent to residential developments.
Recently, someone wanted to open a huge (non-strip) nightclub on Congress NE, immediately West of 3rd Street North of L (residential, with new mixed-income residential coming immediately South of L).
Check into it if you care to. I and the Commissioner for that area (just North of mine) lead the charge and killed the application--because it is simply not an appropriate location for any club (even though it is zoned commercial).
The gay strip clubs deserve to re-open as they were promised, but it needs to be done with sensitivity to the surrounding area.
Again, the argument that if someone opposes the clubs locating on this site is can *only* be due to anti-gay bias is just wrong, and insults everyone's intelligence. Are there people who oppose the clubs on the basis of hatred? Sure. But don't alienate those of us who are not homophobic / anti-GLBT by lumping us in with that bad crowd.
Best,
Alan Kimber
ANC Commissioner, 6C05
Stutterer,
You're right, the community did not want the strip club located on H Street. In any event, strip clubs are precluded from opening on H Street by the stautory requirements that they be a certain distance from residential properties (and churches, I think).
Best,
Alan Kimber
ANC Commissioner, 6C05
dear commish,
that's all i'm saying.
follow the requirements and the law. i don't care if a club is gay or not. i fully support any kind of club, but it needs to be in an appropriate area.
i don't want a straight or gay strip club in this area. it's not really the kind of area folks seem to think it is. ATF will open soon, and i doubt the federal government would want any kind of lacsivious (spelling) activity nearby - gay or straight.
folks need to pay attention to the future of the area. if a man or a woman wants to sit around and see naked bodies, do it at home, or drive a mile or two away from the kids.
it pisses me off that everyone makes a big deal about relocating the club as a GAY ISSUE. it's not.
it's a neighborhood issue.
i'm straight, by the way, but i've been to gay clubs because the music is great. and i don't really give a rat's ass about people's sexuality.
it's about creating a viable neighborhood.
and adhering to the law.
i'm no pushover. i'm sorry, but proclaiming that you're gay and deserving some special treatment is just wrong.
if that were the case, i'd have a house on hill, so to speak, because i'm ADD.
gimme a break.
if gay clubs, or straight clubs that have folks stripping want to relocate, find an appropriate location.
or not.
if a club gets to relocate in this hood, i'm gonna push for a giant dildo shop. just because. why can't dc have a red light district where everything goes? i say we should locate it right next to catholic university!
"oh, but.. ummm.. they're bashing us! we have rights too!"
GIVE IT UP!
folks actually want strip clubs in dc. strange thought, huh?
just pick the right location. i.e. not next to a middle school, or some dorky yuppie couple thinking about having kids.
strip clubs don't tend to get a lot of support when you actually have folks living next door.
seriously, if you can't figure it out, you're a bunch of losers.
yeah,
LOSERS.
gay or straight.
find a place, and carry on.
tired of your melodrama BS.
get a life.
curious....
do gay people get all freaked out when a 'straight strip club' opens in their neighborhood?
doubt it.
with folks of our income brackets talking here, sexuality is not an issue.
it's trying to make a neighborhood.
some of you people just don't think.
really.
you're just angry.
go to yogadawg and take a chill pill.
if you were smart, you wouldn't be bitching on a blog, you'd be trying to do something.
so go do something and quit whining.
Dear Anonymous 12:41. I think you're reading an anti-gay bias into my comment where there isn't one. I'm an HRC member and I support gay rights completely--even up to the point where I'll put my body between any of my many gay friends and any person who's trying to harass them.
My concerns are a) that I don't want drunks coming from these clubs tearing down W Virginia through my neighborhood on their way back to the Hill, and b) that this just seems like another case where the well-off people decide they don't want something so the city will bend the laws so it can go in Ward 5.
As for "fair compensation" I'm sure that's been worked through in the courts in many eminent domain cases. If the owners of those buildings got screwed they should go to court. For instance I can imagine that if one of the club owners also owned the building, they could argue that the value of the building should also include the present value of the expected future profits of the club. But if the clubs were renting the buildings...the city doesn't owe a particular business or type of business a place to conduct that business. The owner of the building is compensated and the owner of the business should look at other places available to him/her given the existing laws and choose one...if none are available that are affordable, then, well, in a sense the market has spoken.
As for "gay people are citizens, too" of course I agree with that. I think a majority of Ward 5 citizens will oppose the clubs, though. It's disgusting that in 2007 so many people will oppose the clubs because of their homophobia but there are also many people who oppose them for other reasons.
Rob: The value of these businesses was in the business and liquor license. DC no longer allows new strip club licenses. Period. You have to open under an existing one. And the new DC laws governing where strip clubs can locate are obviously designed to get rid of them period. That's why strip clubs NEVER move of their own accord.
So when DC sets these very strict rules purposely then takes away the one property you can already legally operate in, you are screwed.
Hence, the monetary value loss.
As for well off vs non, isn't there more than one strip club in Georgetown and pricey downtown locations?
The point is that the city has made it astonishingly hard to find a location that a strip club can legally operate, including minimum distances from residences, churches, etc. So by definition most highly populated areas no longer fit.
Hi, Hillman,
Ok your comment makes things a lot more clear...I couldn't figure out why someone in the gov't would make promises concerning the relocating of these businesses.
So even though it seems pretty suspicious :-) that all these places happened to independently find their own new locations all in Ward 5 (that's what Graham said on the Kojo show) I'm maybe a little less up in arms about this.
Rob:
That's not to say that poorer parts of town don't get dumped on. Of course they do. This has been happening in cities probably forever.
Is it right? No. Is it reality? Yes.
"if you really think all you have to have to open a gay strip club in NW is NW DC rent, you're living in a dream world -- the same bigotry that people have against a gay strip club in ivy city is just as present anywhere else.
and as far as working for the citizens, well, gay people are citizens too."
I completely agree with anon. gay people are just as much citizens as the rest of us. The "gay" part doesnt make them not human.
Also, another point anon made, theres alot more to rent than opening up a strip club, any strip club, as a matter of fact, any business!
Cheers,
Aiko
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