Sorry if you're sick of hearing about clubs possibly relocating to Ward 5 because the first vote is today and the bill will almost certainly pass. It case you still want to read more on the issue, here are a couple of articles (the Post one is better, and I must say I was suprised to read about a $515,000 house in Ivy City).
NE Residents Fear Clubs Would create a 'Red-Light Zone' -Washington Post June 5th
Club's Landlord Acquires NE Sites -Washington Times June 5th
26 comments:
Yea. That house price caught my eye too. Though it did say newly consstucted. Anyone know what block this on, im dying to see this house.
WOW I have been keeping track of this, e-mailing the council and obtaining signatures on petitions to stop this. What has caused your conclusion that this bill will almost certainly pass? I know we will know something today but I did not realize this was such a done-deal.
The thing that I keep seeing and ticks me off is some gays saying that everyone that doesn't like this plan is against gays. I can tell you that I don't care if the clubs are straight or gay, I don't want ANY strip clubs clustered together near me.
I also hate the fact that one ward can impose something on another ward. Especially since we have no voting rights in those other wards.
This whole thing just makes me mad.
This is just the initial vote. My impression is that it will pass this hurdle, not necessarily that the legislation is absolutely a done deal. Anyway, I could be wrong. I probably don't know anything you don't. I'm just expecting that this isn't going to go away that easily.
This has me terribly furious.I am gay and even though I never visited the former clubs in SE, I've heard plenty of stories as to the activities that goes in inside those clubs.
Such clubs will attract prostitutes, both male and female as well as cruisers that will be circling looking for potential hookups..
This would not be allowed in the Dupont, Logan, Cap Hill areas, why allow it over here?
Trinidad and Ivy City are just starting to catch fresh air from years of neglect and crime.
This will be a big set back for the community.
Actually, there used to be a gay stip club right atop the Dupont Circle Metro Station on Q Street (Rascals). It closed when Riggs expanded and took over the rest of that block. There also is a current straight strip club at Conn. and S Street in Dupont Circle. So Dupont Circle does allow them, they are there and have been there. I did attend the clubs in SE and I felt safe walking through the neighborhood at night, there was lot of activity in the neighborhood due to the clubs, which actually kept the crime down. There were no prostitutes because a vast majority of the patrons are gay-so there is no market for them. From the outside, you couldn't tell what was going on inside the clubs-couldn't tell if they are just a dance club or a strip club. There are no flashing lights, no "Vegas Style" strip signage. On the economic development side, there was plenty of development going on in SE on M Street already and the clubs there were just two blocks away. The neighborhood is not going to notice a big difference, during the day the places will be closed and at night there will be more people in the neighborhood.
The Verdict is in....
Graham accepted all Thomas' amendments to the bill. Ward 5 will not get anymore than 2 clubs. In fact, no Ward will host more than 2 clubs. The clubs must be 1200 feet from each other, must be 600 feet a school, church or playground.
Yes, there appears to be plenty of BS in this debate on both sides. No not everyone who opposes the clubs in a homophobe, and yes there are similar businesses all over the district including Ward 1. The straight club in Dupont previously mentioned is within a stone's throw of a school, yet I don't hear anyone complaining.
Here's a thought, why don't we remove all the idiotic restrictions in the city's zoning and liquor laws, and let the market dictate where these clubs relocate. If residents prefer empty buildings and vacant lots to legal businesses they are welcome to buy up those properties.
When they say strip clubs/adult establishments are they talking about the Folleys and the Glory Holes type places?
Those place should not be in or near any residential places.
It will be just a few weeks before they start cutting peeping holes and glory holes into the movie booths and turn the places into a sex shop.
And yes there were hustlers hanging outside of those establishments in SE.
Go to any gay site that list gays adult stores and search, you will see where they always warned about the crime around those locations.
darn! i wish we could have at least had three clubs. now i'll have to drive drunk to another ward to 'nudie bar hop'.
why will i drive? cuz taxis don't really frequent the area. they didn't in SW, and they won't in ivy city.
oh well. guess i'll have to find a designaked driver to haul my needy butt around the city, or just risk it.
at least there is one place opened already. so, if you add the other two, that makes three. better than nothing, i guess.
Anonymous 3:36:
The crime around the strip clubs in SE was from some of the neighborhood residents, not the patrons of the clubs. If anything, the clubs were an improvement. That area was hell, with very poorly run public housing, extremely blatant street crime, etc.
These clubs didn't cause this. The lowlife thugs in the neighborhood did.
As for prostitution, I went to those clubs with friends from time to time. I NEVER saw gay prostitutes on the streets there.
But I sure as heck see prostitutes all over Logan Circle. And various other locales that do not have strip clubs.
Wow! people are getting really emotional over this! Poo Poo, you sound new to the neighborhood... I think you should just take a risk and walk to the clubs while on your nudie bar hop. Hillman, have you conducted a study to demonstrate causality of the crimes you mention? Lots of people can wave hands and spit out statistics, but I'd be curious if you can back up your statements. I'm glad the sex clubs are being more highly scrutinized - in a city with one of the highest HIV rates in the country, we should think twice about these sorts of clubs. Craigslist is still available for people who want anonymous sex.
Statistics? Of course not.
But at least I've been to the clubs in question back when they were down by the stadium area, which is a lot more than most people that are posting here.
And every time I was there I was accosted by various forms of thuggery and I guarantee you they weren't club patrons.
Blaming club owners for the fact that some (but certainly not all) neighbors are criminals and the police are incapable of policing is stunningly unfair.
And like it or not some people like to see strippers. I would have assumed that by this time in this day and age we'd be beyond condemning such people and trying to run them out of town.
If there are legitimate issues, then fine. You address those issues individually. But the same issues exist for all the clubs we apparently love on H Street. You don't think the Palace of Wonders on H has an impact on the neighborhood?
We need to get over our bad righteous selves and realize that strip clubs are something that a lot of people enjoy.
Notice that the council allowed Thomas to save face, and create some political maneuvering through creating a compromise, realizing they had the votes for passage and then voting against.
Someone mentioned stats, the crime in the proposed areas is nearly non-existent, as there is nothing there. As for the area around 1/2 St SE there was crime, but most of it was theft and property related crime. the rate is on par with the crime around Dream/Love nightclub.
strip clubs are stupid, and a tremendous waste of money.
i want more RETAIL in the area, not RETARDS.
hopefully we'll drive these clubs out in a few years, just like they were driven out of what is now the nationals' stadium.
let the losers enjoy their year or two wasting their time and money.
I don't mind strip clubs. Hell I've been to a few. I'm a red blooded steak eating man. What man hasn't been to a strip club?
What I didn't like is the fact that before the amendments that Thomas was able to get passed, the clubs were going to be allowed to be clustered together. When you get anything clustered together like that unfortunately statistics show problems do occur.
Roy:
What statistics show that grouping strip clubs together causes problems? And what type of problems? I'm not saying it's not possible. I'm just saying that wasn't my experience with the clubs in SE, and I'm not aware of any actual stats on crime or other problems relating to grouping three or four strip clubs together.
I'm neither for or against the strip clubs in the proposed location. But what I don't like are people talking trash about the previous clubs when they never went and didn't know anything about them.
i used to go to club 55 -a 'straight', predominantly black strip club in SE that is trying to relocate.
it was ok to go in the early evening, but none of us would go at night on weekends. it was just asking for trouble.
pretend you drove to a relatively 'out of the way' club in SE, parked your car in a dodgy neighborhood, and embibed w/a bunch of other people that did the same thing.
believe me, not good.
yeah the hood around the clubs wasn't very safe to begin with. but i believe that the environment would have attracted crime anyway. there were a lot of escape routes and places to hide out.
i think that if you located the clubs right on H street, there would be a lot more exposure which would cut down all the elicit activities that occur when a club is out in a a warehouse district.
why these clubs WANT to locate their businesses in far removed areas is a bit suspect to me....
Anonymous:
Traditionally the gay clubs located in out of the way locales to cut down on harassment from the straight neighbors, and to allow their patrons at least a bit or anonymity.
Even in the remote former location I remember hearing anti-gay slurs being yelled at us as we walked back to our cars (hoping that they were still there and that we didn't get jacked on the way).
hilldude:
yes, i think everyone that went to that area was worried about there car still being there.
and some of us were worried about getting jacked too! ahem.
anyway, i know you have a big concern with this 'perceived' homophobia. i guess i have to admit that i've never been slurred as a straight male. i can't even think of an example of a straight person slur, but i'm sure there are some out there. they just aren't as prevalent.
i truly don't think that the opposition to strip clubs is a straight or gay thing. it just sort of degrades the area a bit.
the clubs downtown dc on m street are VERY tame. i was at one once, where a couple was kicked out for kissing too long while the dancers danced. i was there another time, sitting next to the ambassador of argentina.
they have no private rooms, and they don't sell sex toys.
if they did, i'm sure there'd be an effort there to get rid of them.
it's all about the perception of these clubs. my ex girlfriend used to always want to go to the gay clubs with her friends just for fun, but they were scared of the area. i actually went to a gay club with her near dupont. on 17th i think, or nearby. hey, that's not in a warehouse. there were half nude guys dancing on the bar, but it was tame and just one big party.
my long winded point is that if you do it properly, it doesn't matter if a strip club is straight or gay.
the area is gentrifying, and quite an attraction to fairly educated/wealthy yuppy types. it just doesn't jive.
i predict they'll be outta there soon enough, for one reason or another - unless they establish themselves without the rep that the clubs in SE obviously had.
it may be sad, but in the capitol of the world's most influential city, there are some protocols that have been missing for years that are finally being acknowledged.
i don't see you running to buy a place in the new development near that warehouse district that the clubs are wishing to relocate to.
but, hillman, you said you would host stripping in your house.
methinks you have triple standards.
Anonymous:
When someone yells "I'm gonna kick your faggot ass" that's not really 'perceived' homophobia, as you dismissively suggest.
When patrons of gay bars are beaten up, that's not 'perceived'. Several people I know casually were beaten up when leaving those clubs. The beatings started with "Hey faggots".
Funny, I'm betting the 'perception' was that this ass-kicking really sucked. You know, in real life, not 'perceived'.
Not all of the resistance to the clubs is homophobia. But some of it most certainly is. And when it is it usually manifests itself with bogus claims of patrons of the clubs being violent or responsible for violence, trolling for prostitutes, etc., when there is dang little to back that claim up.
The establishment that sells the lube and toys is a sex club, not a stripper bar. None of the stripper bars have opened yet. Sex clubs don't need to apply for a liquor license because it is illegal for them to sell liquor.
'Wet' was a fairly tame place, as you call the club in Dupont, except that the strippers were nude. There weren't private rooms, toys, or lube there either. Nor any sex taking place. I don't remember if the other stripper bar had private booths, but I don't think so. Just though I'd clear that up.
hillman -
sorry to hear about the beatings and slurs.
are you making the point that these clubs are going to bring violence and intolerance to an emerging area?
if so, it's a good reason NOT to have them around.
cuz... that sounds like crap.
Anon:
Saying a gay club shouldn't come to an area because it may provoke gay bashing doesn't make a lot of sense. It's not the club's fault. It's not the fault of the patrons.
no, it's not the fault of the patrons.
it's screwed up, but that's the way it is.
unfortunately.
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