Thursday, October 18, 2007
DCMUD: Senate Square Sales Conversion
DCMUD has additional info on the recent Senate Square conversion from condo to apartment. They look pretty swanky. Hopefully they will rent well. Too bad some are playing the waiting game on the east [oops, I meant west end] end of H (and for that matter on other portions too). Newsflash guys: SITTING ON YOUR DECREPIT PROPERTY/VACANT LOT WHILE OTHERS DO THE WORK HELPS NO ONE AND REALLY JUST MAKES YOU A MAJOR LEAGUE ASS. DO SOMETHING.
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35 comments:
Ok, so now what. I am actually interested in living in Senate Square. Does anyone have any idea what they are going for? Is this a "if I have to ask I can't afford it" kind of situation? Anyone think there will be one bedrooms under $2,000? I just can't believe they can comand the same rents for as similar places in Chinatown.
So anyone know answers for these related questions?
- I assume the Abdo/Children's Museum part is still condos, as it was sold out long ago. Anyone know when it will open?
- When do they plan to open the Senate Square buildings? I couldn't find leasing dates anywhere, but didn't call the office to ask.
Rumor is $3000 for a one bedroom and $5300 for a 2 bedroom. Something tells me it will sit vacant for a very, very, very long time. It is a shame.
Well, they are supposed to be "unusually large" (or something like that.) My mortgage is less than the one bedroom rumor, and I bought a 2 bedroom condo very nearby not so far off the height of the market.....
If we have any interest in seeing the building occupied, might I suggest we not spread rumors about how much the rents will be, until we have more concrete information? Seems like it'd be a shame to scare off potential renters (and new neighbors) without knowing the true numbers. Information is power.
1 bedroom is $2511-$3347
2 bedroom is $3103-$3715
Ok then, how about the Senate Square people puting a price range on their website instead of requireing to contact them to find out? When you don't advertise the price it makes me think one of two things. Either they want to size you up before setting a rent i.e. they will charge whatever they can get or two its so expensive, if you have to ask you can't afford it. Either way I doubt they can fill up these place no matter how big they are even at 2000 for a one bedroom
How much do people pay for Mass Court at 300 Mass? A building like that is a fair comparison point (if probably not as nice)
What happens to those that had contracts for purchase at Senate Square? Are those still valid?
That does seem kinda steep. Maybe they'll be able to attract a few corporate tenants.
In Chinatown/PQ, 1BRs are generally around $1800 and 2BRs are around $2800.
That said, the Newseum apartments are supposed to have 2BRs going for $4000ish.
If you go to www.rentometer.com, the rents that are being discussed do not compare with the surrounding neighborhood.
No one in their right mind would pay that much to live somewhere that is surrounded on three sides by ghetto crapholes. And their is not anything to do right there, the closest bar on H is like 8 blocks away.
And the Dubliner is like..3 blocks away...and the metro is like...across the street. True, you've got to hike it down H, or take the bus to get to the "Atlas District" bars. But Pap and Petey's should be open soon, and that is at 421 H Street. Sidamo (for coffee and tea) if at 417. You are also a short walk from some decent spots on Mass. Or, one could visit one of the places in Union Station (still the closet place to get the NY Times around here).
That end of H isn't exactly hopping, but give it time. There are a few bright spots already.
i have to agree with inked.
location is everything.
the corridor is being developed on two opposite sides.
on the eastern end you have "really cool bars and shit".
on the western end you have several developments that are up and coming...
in between is kind of dodgy.
but the metro is a huge plus, for the western folks.
the rail will hopefully bridge that gap.
and yes, vacant property owners, get off your ass!
the time is now!
the gap is closing.
yeah, it's your property, and you can do what you want with it...
but developers have a way of working around stallwarts.
funny. i was at the liquor store at 3rd and H. this big dude was telling the owners that he was going to set them up and get them hooked into the new business/condos at 3rd and K.
the liquor store folks actually took his card and set up a meeting.
it sounded decent, until i noticed that the guy had no shoes.
or socks.
or money.
ugh. not gonna go on with this one.
back on topic: senate square will rent well.
i know a bunch of people that want to rent there.
i think they are tired of the VA/MD commute.
we'll see.
the building is almost done.
it's high end.
it will rent out.
layman, hillman, et. al. will have their density to foster new business.
just give it two or three years.
dc is SLOW.......
but it's still ahead of many other comparable markets.
i hate to say it, but look at U street.
i had a girlfriend that paid 2k for a one bedroom in VA. she would pay more than that to live in dc, near the metro to get to her work in rosslyn.
think about the folks that want to live in dc. H street is one of the few affordable places around our nation's capital that has access to everything.
i guess i'm saying that it's all there, and the infrastructure is being built. it's just a matter of time.
chill
Senate Square is definitely located in a fine spot. Being a couple blocks from Union Station is a huge plus. You get, metro, amtrack, movie theatre, shopping mall, restaurants, post-office, book store, pharmacy, wine shop, cigar shop, ambiance, etc. It's two safe blocks away with SEC and judiciary security guards looking on. You will also pass a veterinary clinic, coffee shop, italian cafe and Martin's market grocery (they have everything). Venture a block or two further south and you have all the outdoor restaurants on Mass ave, accountant and dental offices, etc. I could go on...Senate Square is in a perfect location! nice neighbors, too!
OK, this is nitpicking, but if you can't nitpick on the comments section of a neighborhood blog, where can you nitpick?
To the get the NY Times, Martin's (3rd and F) is a closer walk. And I don't remember, but I would think that Ebenezer's at 2nd and F carried it too.
For all of my neighbors in the area, I apologize in advance for the long post--Alan
Anonymous 10:15,
Have you ever even been to the West end of H Street? I live 1/2 block north of the Senate Square development, and I can assure you that there are no "getto crapholes" on my block, or the surrounding ones for that matter.
Here is what the project is actually surrounded by (if you ever got out of your car as you speed past, you might have a clue):
West--Union Station (with all its the shops and restaurants in addition to Metro and Amtrak to get you anywhere in the District or the entire east coast). If you need a bar, several of the restaurants have nice ones--not clubs, but those have their own problems. No "ghetto crapholes" there...
North--solid residential and small office. Everyone knows eachother, making it a cohesive, wonderful neighborhood. Farther north, there is a development that has already broken ground, and another on the way. No ghetto crapholes there...
East--yes, there is the vacant lot, but a large development with mid- to upscale apartments is already approved, and the developer is in talks to bring a Trader Joe's or similar grocery store to the corner of 3rd & H. Beyond the vacant land, 4th Street is filled with many beautiful restored homes. Still don't see those "ghetto crapholes" you claim to know so well...
South--the start of Capitol Hill proper, with beautifully renovated homes, with a similar relationship among the neighbors north of the development. A large condo development has recently been approved for the area currently occupied by the parking lot. Hmmm...doesn't sound like "ghetto crapholes" to me...
Southeast--yes, a liquor store and vacant land, but it is only a matter of time. Maybe a little rough around the edges, but no "ghetto craphole"...
Furthermore, Inked is correct about Pap & Petey's (upscale jazz club), Sidamo's, and a hot yoga studio all within 2 blocks--in addition to the places in easy walking distance in Union Station and on Massachusetts Ave.
If you want to get to the other end of H Street for the larger, hipper bars, just hop the free shuttle that runs between Union Station and the Atlas District.
Your comments reflect your ignorance and prejudices, not the real state of affairs in our great neighborhood.
Come visit sometime, as there are often impromptu block parties on Fridays and Saturdays--do you know your neighbors this well?
Best,
Alan Kimber
ANC Commissioner, 6C05
I agree that vacant property owners need to get off their butt. For that reason, not sure why people are talking about how great the location is right now. Is Union Station really all that? Sorry, don't see it right now.
Now, I do think that whoever rents those Senate Square apartments should get a great deal (depending on the rent). A lot of the condos built in Penn Quarter were originally meant to be apartments, and the quality shows that. Senate Square was meant to be condos, so you'd expect them to be higher quality than buildings intended to be apartments.
NPM,
from where I am (north of H) I still think Union Station (provided you use the back entrance through the parking garage on the Hopscotch Bridge) is closer for the NY times (but it may be a wash with 3rd & F).
I'm not convinced that this is a good move for them. Paying $3500 for a 2BR is all line and good when you will have a direct connection to Union Station, but having to walk three whole blocks in a "ghetto craphole" (/JK) might be a huge hassle for those who hate to deal with the locals. On the other hand, look how long it's taking to fill the condos in Penn Quarter.
Alan:
You raise some valid points. If you think about it there really is a lot in that area, or within walking distance.
But until that liquor store at 3rd and H is shut down that little stretch is going to feel unsafe and undesireable, especially to people that are expected to pay high dollar luxury rents. It's a blight on the community, and it's detrimental effect on the entire area can't be overstated.
And we can't ignore the very real crime factor (which the liquor store certainly doesn't help with).
The same thing is happening in Penn Quarter - these folks moved in and paid huge mortgages or rents and they are finding they are experiencing more street crime, panhandling, etc., than they were expecting.
They too expected it would only be a matter of time before it went away. Turns out that wasn't true.
In the long run, crime will be the determining factor in how H Street pans out.
In the shorter term, all it will take will be a couple of high profile violent crimes and a sense that the business and government community are unwilling or unable to stop future crime and H Street's reputation will be set in stone, and not in a good way.
Dave:
You are right. These were meant to be nice condos. But are they to the 'finish' point yet? I know the exteriors are pretty much done, but have they actually put in the cabinets, appliances, etc?
If so, great. If not, let's hope the developers have the foresight to continue with the nicer upscaled stuff. If they think they are going to command premium rents but they downscale the apartments they'll be in for a pretty rude awakening. Granite counters, trendy appliances, etc., are now pretty much standard - anything less is seen as undesireable by anybody paying high dollar.
I think at least in the second building they are a long way from the finished product. I could be wrong.
Hillman,
based on the website, I'd say there is no way they will be putting anything into those places that is not top of the line. They look fancy. And frankly, if you can afford to furnish your apartment from Vastu (which the site suggests), you probably expect top of the line.
3rd and K is a great place to get a hooker (male or female) just up until the sun rises.
Vastu cracks me up. It is the ultimate proof that too many people have more money than brains. Most of that stuff you can get for one third the price online. Some is so outrageously overpriced that you have to wonder if it is all an elaborate joke or some sort of psych experiment.
Does anyone else not realize the fact that the "close proximity to Union Station" also means "extremely loud train whistles since you're right over the tracks." I mean, I live 13 blocks east of Union Station and it's still pretty loud when the wind is blowing in the right direction. So much for "luxury."
omigosh!
look peeps.
senate square has amazing appliances, which are clearly visible if you take the time to walk by and look through the windows.
hillman-
you know so much about the liquor store on third and H, why don't you check out senate square while you're annotating the crap liquor joint?
dave: yeah, union station is all that. check it out. it's 100 billion times better than the georgetown park mall. you have no idea about that of which you are talking. i write you off as a dork. sorry.
whoever wrote about living thirteen blocks from union station and hearing the bells is a friggin' hypchondriac or something. i live on the adjacent block to the tracks, and i rarely even hear a whistle. when i do, it's sort of comforting. if you need a good hypnotherapist, or psych, lemme know. i'll hook you up. it's clear that whatever other prescription you were on, has expired.
funny. it's kind of turning into an east H street vs. west H street.....
it's not about appealing to the entire market, just the segment willing to live in an up and coming place. It's not my money invested. But the owners are well capitalized and they understand the peaks and troughs of the business. Eventually, they'll make money, and they likely won't lose any. I wouldn't pay that much to rent a place, and I have no problems with train whistles. But they don't have to worry about my price sensitivity, they can just deal with people for whom other factors matter--proximity to the subway, proximity to work, etc.
1br- 2030 - 2999
2br/1ba $3103 - $3715
2/2 $3188 - $5371
A friend of mine was looking to rent in Senate Square and he said they were asking the above rates.
Another friend lived in Mass Court on 3rd and Mass NW until about 6 months ago and was paying $2000/month (including parking) for a fairly small, 1 br apartment with no upgrades whatsoever. She had ok carpeting, fiberglass counters and a normal run of the mill refrigerator. She left to buy a condo mostly because they were about to raise her rent again. I lived in NW for 7 years and even the more established "Nicer Neighborhoods" have their share of crime and prostitution. If ever in need of some lovin' or a fix just drive up 12th street NW between M and P or Mass Ave and 5th Street NW after dark.
I just moved north of H Street 5 months ago and while it's not perfect I do love it. My neighbors are great, Alan is one of them, and if just half of what has been announced for the area comes to be this area is a goldmine!! 2nd Street from Florida to K Street (includes the renovation of the Uline Theatre)is slated to be mixed use/retail with shops and restaurants, someone bought the rights over the tracks at Union Station and will apparently be putting in a 5 star hotel with high end retail and H Street and it's sidewalks are scheduled to get a face lift starting in just a few months in preparation for the Trolly Cars and revitalization that's almost certainly just around the corner. I've already seen a change since I've moved in and have become a believer.....
Joe
To anon 9:52, Union Station noise is not what you seem to think. I'm at 3rd & H just south from the corner; one block from the tracks. In 4 years, I've yet to hear a single whistle. The only thing heard from Union Station is the occasional bell as a train comes in - and you can usually only hear those on weekends as normal street traffic is the dominant background din any other time. There is no roar of the trains, because they are practically at a stop near the station. And that's with 115 year old single pane, wood frame windows. The sound insulation on the new structures will easily offset the one block closer location. Senate Square is a prime location, with Metro basically across the street if you enter through the parking structure. Also, with I-295/395 and NY Ave both just blocks away the west end of H st NE is also very drivable to VA & MD. Especially compared to anyplace uptown, west-end, or Georgetown. The Hill, and Hill North areas have a lot going for them for anyone with the independence to think past the 'West of the Park' mentality/stereotype that my be in peoples minds.
"Also, with I-295/395 and NY Ave both just blocks away the west end of H st NE is also very drivable to VA & MD. Especially compared to anyplace uptown, west-end, or Georgetown."
VA, as in Arlington, not Tysons. MD, as in PG county, not Bethesda. Both luxury areas are easier to access on the west side of town. I'm still not convinced H st is, or will ever be prime real estate for luxury living in this city. Maybe in six years when we have our day care center and Harris Teeter, but not when Senate Square open.
8th and I:
You raise some good points.
I think H Street will continue to be 'cutting edge' or 'bleeding edge', if you will, for some time, at least in the minds of most DC-area people. That's not to say it won't be a terrific neighborhood. It's just that it's still in transition, and may be for quite some time.
What will actually have a HUGE impact is the development of the air rights north of Union Station. That will be an enormous development, both in terms of size and impact. How much of a spillover effect that development has on the surrounding streets will be interesting to see.
When I checked out Mass Court last summer, their cheapest studio was $1600. I was going to pay $1750 to stay in my 2-bdr townhouse just south of Gallaudet (by myself). I stayed put. I was also not impressed by the studios they showed me.
As for hearing train whistles, I can occasionally hear them from 6 or so blocks away.
I hate to burst the bubble. Senate Square is in the hood. Do a comparison of any other new development in the city, even in the worst neighborhood. What will you find, the area surrounding Senate Square has has more shootings than any of the others. If that doesn't define hood, what does? Heck, someone was shot in front of Union Station.
I am a tenant at Senate Square for 6 weeks now. Just to let you know about the surrounding area. It is a real neighborhod w/ the majority of the residents 30-yrs plus living in the area. you have no idea waht you are talking boaut. i don't go out on th estrret at night but at least the people who live in the area make eye contact and speak to you. unlike Dupont Circle or any other the so called better neighborhoods. in 4 block area so called bad zone, is nothing than a neighbor hood in transistion. working class families, with kids live there along w/other types... but.. I for one love the area and would like to own a place at senate square. hopefully my fellow tenants at SS are as cordial as our neighbors down the street so far only a couple have been.
thanks
st. marys county girl
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