The local publication (American University Journalism grad school) reports on H Street (the article appears to be largely based on the recent 6A ABL Committee meeting). I did have to laugh a bit at the sociology prof's quote regarding U Street:
“It’s being marketed. There’s active marketing going on about the U Street Corridor – that it’s the new, hip place for young, lefty folks to go and sort of be in harmony with the traditional civil rights slash African American culture there.”
First, I don't really think it's being marketed quite that way (probably a good number of those hip, young lefty people can't afford the area anyway), secondly, even if it is, isn't that a sort absurd notion?
29 comments:
"I know if I get shot, someone will call the police"
wow.
I think that shows how low our expectation bar is.
I can't wait till the idea of getting shot on H Street becomes an implausibility, like the idea of getting shot in Georgetown.
More importantly, I hope Joe is wrong about the 7-10 years for services projection. We already get some services, there's a Nationwide insurance office, and H&R Block for tax preparation (and a Liberty Tax Service, I think?) but we sure could use more. If the banks aren't giving out loans, maybe the city should start a publicly financed small business incubator/venture capitalist fund for starting businesses on H St and other developing (some say 'blighted') areas?
anyone hear more about the plans to bring the costco to ny ave ne? the more succesfful retail comes to NE, the easier it'll be to convince other businesses to make the leap...
ps: aren't the odds of getting shot on H pretty remote?
has anyone researched where all the 'fear of crime' on H St comes from? is it just people scared of the working class black faces they see on the street? I've lived here going on 5 years in January and have only heard of two killings on H (one was road rage, i.e. out of area folk driving thru) and no one I know has been accosted (two minor burglaries). I also remember one shooting off 13th and Wylie where someone was shot in the leg.
Still, spread out over 5 years, these incidents look, frankly, rare. Far too rare to generate the fear level I see surrounding H.
Theories from y'all on why folks are scared?
I was on the verge of writing the sociology professor mentioned in the article until I read more carefully:
It’s being marketed. There’s active marketing going on about the U Street Corridor – that it’s the new, hip place for young, lefty folks to go and sort of be in harmony with the traditional civil rights slash African American culture there.
She's not stating U Street +embodies+ those characteristics...but stating that's how the neighbourhood is being marketed. Which in my opinion is correct. Leaving out "marketed" and "marketing" completely mischaracterizes her remarks.
I'll add the marketing text, but I still think it's funny.
Soul Searcher -
Though I share your desire for retail in the area, I'm not sure if a Costco in the District is really the kind of retail development that we want to promote. Human scale, walkable development promotes livability and smart growth. Costco, however, is anything but.
It means a Brobdingnagian parking lot, a lot of folks accessing the region only by car, buying, and leaving. Costco sells very cheap (and awful) food as a loss leader, so it's not like the folks driving to pick up Texas sized vats of mayo are going to be stopping for some moules frites at Doc Moore's or curried oxtail at Nabby's. They will, however, bring a cavalcade of vehicles clogging the H Street arterial.
I'd love retail development, but I prefer mine to come in small boxes.
"I know if I get shot, someone will call the police"
this comment was clearly a joke when this person made it at the meeting. unfortunately, it doesn't appear that way in the article so yes, it seems quite shocking. however, i don't think many rational people truly fear getting shot walking down h street.
Why is there a fear of crime on (and around) H?
One simple look at the police stats, available at MPDs website, will tell you why.
Then, if that ain't enough, one good look at the young thugs that still patrol the neighborhood at will is enough to convince many that there is a very real crime problem in this area.
We can deny it all we want, but it's there. How you perceive it depends in part on your own personal comfort level with the likelihood and appearance of crime.
Of course, you could argue that other areas of the city have more crime. That's undoubtedly true.
Costco - Costco is a lot more than huge vats of mayonnaise. And a lot of their food is of perfectly good and sometimes excellent quality, at far lower prices than you'll find in the smaller neighborhood stores.
Walkable neighborhoods are great, but by definition the entire city can't be 'walkable' to all.
I'd welcome a Costco in DC. True, it sucks that they usually have huge parking lots. But let's be honest - Costco fills a huge retail void that is likely to exist in DC for the foreseeable future. Do we really think H Street will be able to provide all the retail options that even one single Costco can provide any time in the next five years? Or ever, for that matter?
Drive to the suburbs if you want a Costco... you would have to get in your car anyway.
Anonymous @ 2:01pm and kerry,
Thanks for your comments.
There are a couple of reasons why I think a Costco in DC would be better
1) sales tax revenue form my purchases would go to the locality i live in
2) i would use less gas to get there (environmental/economic concern)
3) although retail jobs don't pay much, it would likely provide an entry level to the workforce to scores of teenagers (and that added income to any given household would help)
4) the ny/bladensburg corridor where i believe it is slated to be built is essentially 'wasted space' (i won't use the b-word (blighted), but you get my point if you've driven through there)
5) on my retail point...costco provides a range of affordable goods/foods, some services (glasses/contacts/eye exams are available at the pentagon centre one, for example)...i think it would be convenient
ps: can people please please PLEASE actually put a name/moniker to their comments? honestly, what would the drawback be? that i would disagree with your post and scour through capitol hill looking for elena, bill, tom or whatever name you put next to your post? sigh. eventually we would be able to get a feel for individuals' points of view, background, etc so as to better evaluate their commentary (if i know you have a particular stance coming into a discussion, i'll be able to evaluate how predisposition may be affecting your viewpoint)
hillman,
the 'thugs' i fear wear suits and work on capitol hill. they steal more from me every year than anyone on the street could. they also kill more people than anyone on the street could (they call it war).
i guess your comment = fearing working class black faces on the street then, right? because how can you tell someone is a 'thug' or if they work in a mailroom by looking at them? sigh. oh my people, we have so far to go.
the last post should have 'fear' in quotes. since i don't really fear anybody.
hillman, if you have those stats handy, post up a link or give me a few ballpark figures for crime on h street proper. i wouldn't walk down h with a 100 dollar bill taped to my forehead, but i wonder how much actual crime occurs on the street itself.
SoulSearcher:
It's not really one set of stats. You go to the MPD link listed below and type in whatever parameters you want...
http://crimemap.dc.gov/presentation/intro.asp
I totally agree with you about how useful it would be if people would stop signing on as 'Anonymous'. It's extremely confusing, as sometimes in long threads there will be five or six people going by 'Anonymous'.
A simple online screen name would solve that, and yet it would provide anonymity so people could post freely.
And I totally agree with your points about Costco.
But on your last point, suggesting that a fear of thug behavior = a fear of black faces is total crap. That sort of statement is just outright stupid, and it's insulting to me.
When a group of 20 something men are standing on a streetcorner, obviously dealing drugs and drinking all day (as opposed to working in a mailroom as you offer), then, yes, there's a good chance they are thugs. I don't give a rats ass if they are black, white, blue, green, polka-dotted with little sparkles.
To say that anyone on a neighborhood blog is racist without a legit reason for doing so is the height of irresponsibility.
So stop it.
But otherwise, you raise some good points.
"I know if I get shot, someone will call the police"
I know it was said in jest, but I heard about 18 gunshots in sucession late last night (7, then 4, then 7 again). I would love it if 7- 10 years was an exagerated figure. I would love it if crime was down in the area. I would love it if we had more retail amenities in the area. I would love it if people would put up their freaking trash when they wait for the X2. We're just not there yet.
For Pete's sake, it's not a racial thing either. But I have to tell you, it's pretty hard to decifer the guys just hanging out after work, and the guys looking to get into trouble. In my section of the neighborhood, both groups of guys only hang out in front of abandonded properties. I know the difference now that I've lived here a while, and conversed with a few guys, but to the untrained eye, all corners might be scary. Just a thought.
hillman,
unless you actually SEE a drug transaction take place, standing around on a corner not only is NOT illegal (no loitering law in DC), but it's actually darn near a cultural tradition (guys congregate on corners in DC, maybe you never noticed BUT A LOT OF FOLK ARE JUST HANGING AROUND ***NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG***).
ASSUMING someone is selling drugs because they're black and hanging out on a corner IS racist.
Be offended if you want, you are WRONG for assuming someone is selling drugs just because they're black and standing on a corner in a group.
Public drunkenness IS a crime, but is obviously not to be confused with selling drugs (in case you never noticed, plenty of folk on H St congregate to publicly drink WITHOUT selling drugs).
Please kill the stereotypes.
i reacted to your use of the 'racism' tag and used it reactively, when that term is incorrectly applied to this instance.
i called no one 'racist', you brought that word into the convo. the issue is about race, age, gender and location...young working class black men on a corner are presumed to be drug dealing, so it's more complicated than 'racism', prejudice may be a better word (pre-judging this group of folk based on age, class, race, gender AND location in tandem, not based on race alone).
black women congregated on a corner don't face this pre-judgment (gender)
older black men congregated on a corner would be less likely to be pre-judged in this way (age)
young black men in suits would not face this pre-judgment (class)
so it's not just racism, it's a tandem of factors.
i should not have retorted with 'racism' as part of my reply, as this issue is more complicated than that (i hate how people reflexively reduce discussions to racism when issues involved are more complicated)
broaden your mind...
Two points...
I can't put a face to them, but my car has been vandalized several times less than a block off of H Street, I have had people attempt to intimidate me into giving up whatever cash I have on me, the smell of pot in the air, and at least a couple of neighbors with break-ins to their cars and homes. So regardless of what they look like, there is a very real disruptive crime element pervasive on the strip still. On my block I see 3-4 cops pull over cars and make arrests at least twice a month. Additionally, I recall not too long ago two people were shot, and one killed on the North west corner of 10th and H. I don't need to give you stats, these are personal experiences. There is more of them than police, and no matter what they look like, white black, or little mischeivious gnomes, the crime exists. Whether you fear it or not is personal. I am not afraid, but I am affected for sure.
Secondly, I choose to post as anonymous for a reason. I do not desire to have you know my "background." I appreciate you feeling the desire to attach a random name to your posts, but I do not feel that need. I appreciate the anonymity that comes with posting on a blog, and I would like to maintain that. Please respect mine and other's desire to do so.
and one final factual point
i have VERY RARELY seen large groups of blakc males congregated on corners on H St that weren't (1) waiting for the bus (although that takeout spot by the X2 bus stop on 8th & H westbound looks popular as a hangout) (2) waiting outside the public services building in the 600 block (3) preaching with megaphones at 8th & H (4) enjoying liquor at the corner of 11th & H (5) at the southeast corner of 7th and H, which IS considered a hot spot for drug dealing (this is on a LONG 12 block stretch, from 3rd to 15th).
one corner out of 48? yeah, that's a real drug dealing problem.
actually get out on the street for a change and get off your computer looking at crime maps before you make your conclusions. i'm on h at all hours. i've never had a problem or seen a problem. i've seen people get stabbed, get knocked unconscious in fistfights and openly carrying guns on 14th st nw though. hmmmm. go figure.
Soul Searcher:
You need to go back and read my post.
I specifically said groups of people "obviously dealing drugs and drinking all day".
I didn't apply my statement to all people standing on a street. In fact, I went out of my way not to make such an application.
I know a drug deal when I see it. And I know public drinking when I see it.
So, please, enough with the insinuations and name calling. It's counterproductive.
On the issue of crime, I looked up some statistics on the 1st Police District, which includes H St., and the 2nd district, which has the lowest crime rate in the city. Through November, the reported incidents in each district were as follows (1st column is the 1st district):
homicide: 26 0
sex assault: 20 20
Robbery: 621 319
ADW: 464 155
Burglary: 651 430
Theft: 1,719 2,258
H St. is only a small part of the 1st district, but these statistics give a background for comparison. The homicide and assualt with a deadly weapon comparisons are particualry striking.
We've discussed a number of crimes on this blog related to H street. The shooting of the Argonaut employee, the robbery of a baseball player's girlfriend outside a check cashing place at H & 12th, the rape of a woman (accompanied by her child!) in the middle of the afternoon after she left the Checkers restaurant, etc.
I think the straightforward answer to Soul Searcher's question regarding where the fear of crime on H street comes from is, basically, from crime.
yes, people. crime is bad in dc. thanks for the big news flash there. and yes, it's bad in the areas surrounding h street, as it is in the areas surrounding 14th street, u street and so on. there is only one lily white safe section of this city and that extends from georgetown and to the north. just about everywhere else is plain bad crime wise, so let's get a grip and stop hyping up the crime on h street like it's exponentially worse than most other parts of this town. i have friends who live in columbia heights who tell me i'm brave to live near h street. are you f-ing kidding me?? that sort of analysis just isn't rational given the facts.
bottom line - if you're too scared to hang out anywhere other than places like georgetown or cleveland park, then your fear of h street makes sense. keep limiting your enjoyment to about 25% of what the city has to offer. trust me, i ain't mad at ya, that totally makes sense for you and that's OK. but if you regularly go out in adams morgan or u street, then walk to your car in one of the nearby dark residential streets afterward without fear, how can you be afraid to do the same around h street? i know, i know, it's the area's reputation. well, look at the more recent crime numbers and ask yourself if that sort of fear is really justified. and don't do a comparison versus the absolute safest part of town. that's just ridiculous. do a comparison versus other "less safe" areas where you do feel safe going out.
so can mpd and all of us as a community do a better job to address crime? yes, but this effort takes EVERYONE's involvement, not just the police department. if you're sick of kids in your neighborhood growing up to be thugs, why not volunteer your time to tutor some kids after school, or be a mentor, or donate to local causes that help improve the condition of at risk youth, etc.? please, just do anything besides jumping on a blog to complain about all the "thugs" on h street (and btw, this comment is not directed at any complainers that are already donating their money or time). yes, we're all sick of the thugs in dc so let's do something constructive about it.
Agreed. People need to do less posting and more action. It is way too easy to have a negative opinion of everything and just complain about it here. It takes a person of strong will to get out in the community and bring about positive change. I have stopped reading all of hillman's posts for this reason.
Jack:
How can you possibly know what I do or don't don't outside of this blog, or what my history in community activism / improvement is, or even what my physical abilities or resources are?
As for negative tone, making statements like you'll ignore the posts of others because they point out things like crime and other issues is, well, pretty much negative and defeatist, wouldn't you say?
If people are going to work together to improve a community we have to stop publicly saying things like "I ignore So and So's postings because I don't like how he points out crime issues and I personally question how much he's involved in the community even though I actually have no idea what his involvement or history or circumstance is." That's not really helpful and not conducive to creating an inviting atmosphere on this blog or in the community at large.
Hillman,
I didn't read your comment...but I am sure it too was useless. Please try someday to actively contribute to the community.
Jack:
This is just sad. I hate to see neighborhood blogs descend into this sort of thing, so I'm bowing out of the conversation, once again.
Honestly, folks, if this is the level of discourse in the H Street area, I'm not really sure what 'community' we are fighting for.
Ditto, Ditto, Ditto to Anon 5:07 & Jack.
Hillman: Folks are not anti-community or Hillman haters because they see your comments as constantly being negative & useless. We know you don't get involved b/c your questions and comments indicate that you don't.
That's just about the least responsive response possible. Could you possibly be more vague than 'your comments indicate'?
And I'll reiterate... This is hardly the way to encourage neighborhood participation. But it is mildly entertaining. Sortof reminds me of junior high school. But unfortunately this ain't junior high school. We face very real issues that would be much better addressed in an adult fashion
I wonder what community action others do on this site. I suppose all who discredit hillman for not being active are the same ones picketing the cash advance stores? Or maybe they are the ones reminding our tranisent neighbors not to litter when they wait for the bus? Or maybe, they sit in a meeting with others and complain about every thing, but forget the plans of action once the monthly meeting is over?
I might not agree with everything hillman says, but I don't sift through his comments for racsim and potential holier than thou statements with a fine tooth comb either. Get over yourselves, appreciate an opinion other than yours, and enjoy this friendly community blog.
The holier-than-thouisms being directed at Hillman and others is really a sight to behold--. The equivalent of the kid covering his ears and saying "nyah nyah nyah" when the adults are talking.
Whether or not one personally agrees with Hillman's view on crime, throwing around racist innuendo and questionning one's community support and activism (whatever that means) are useless and immature ways to advance the discussion. H St. may not be a war zone, but it's not the suburbs either. It's not even a U St. or 14th St. It is what it is--a blighted area that is only starting to turn around and become a viable commercial and residential corridor. There's nothing more to read into that statement than is there.
I'd also like to remind people to please be nice and give people the benefit of the doubt. Constructive criticism is welcome (particularly of the posts, but also of comments), but let's do be kind and recall that we are all neighbors and should try to help each other, rather than attack each other. That applies to all of us.
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