If you've recently been down the stretch of Florida that runs from Montello to Trinidad you will notice that the building that once housed Jimmy's Tire has now been pretty much completely demolished, leaving only a vacant space in its stead. Will they rebuild? Will they sell to the townhouse/condo developers next door? Will we all just bee looking at a vacant lot for a very long time?
32 comments:
given what building materials and labor must cost in this hyperinflated DC RE market, it might be more economical for him to sell to the condo developers and rebuild elsewhere.
i feel for the local employees who may have to commute to get to any new location, but if he can buy a pre-existing building somewhere else, they could get back to work faster than waiting for the red tape for permits and the building process of constructing a new structure to be finsihed.
Its gone. The land alone is worth more than what he'll be able to rebuild for there.
Jimmy should make it a used car lot with junk yard dogs that bark loudly throughout the night.
I'm always confused about the ownership of "land" in DC. Yes I own my home, but I was always informed to believe that you don't actually own the land the house is on? Never made sense to me- I guess this is the perfect time to ask.
Any anwers or clarification on this?
signed-
Trinidad home owner
I'm not sure how it works in Trinidad, but in the Historic District, even though the front "yard" is fenced as my property, the city owns it. We own from the facade of the house back...and if you have a bay, it protrudes onto city property. I've read about why many times, but won't recount it properly, so maybe someone else will pick up the ball.
amkindc
Unless you own a condo or a townhome-styled condo, you own the land, the stuff below it, and the sky above it. Sometimes peple own land and different people own the house above it (the landowner has leased the land to the building owner). But that would come up in the title records. If your title abstarct didn't indicate anything like that, you own yo' land.
Anonymous 2:34, yes I know that's how it is usually, but in DC something is different. The post before yours seems to ring a bell. I think thats why DC has the right to come and dig up my front yard when they feel like it...
So does that mean from where the house itself begins to where the backyard hits the alley is what I actually OWN?
Signed
Trinidad home owner
Anonymous 2:34 - that's not the way it works for property owners in D.C. You don't own your front yard, but the D of C will let you use it. Ever try to erect scaffolding in your front yard for facade work? If so, you'd know that you need a permit for erecting scaffolding on public space (i.e., your front yard)
yup.
a real estate professional told me the same thing.
the city owns your front yard in DC. i have no idea why, but they do.
you get to own from where your house starts to the back. if you even have steps leading up to your entrance, the bottom steps that are "in the yard" are on city land. but just try and get them to come and fix your steps, or take care of your garden...
no chance in hell. that' where the fine compromise between the district and the owners comes into play.
It depends on the property line. In my case I own most of my front yard. I've known some people where the District actually owns part of the land under their house. You've got to check the property records. If you've had your lead lines replaced you know what I'm talking about.
When we had the land survey done for our house purchase a year and a half ago, we saw that the city owned our front pseudo-yard, and that the steps up to our front door are on city land. We own the land the house is on. That's the way it is for everyone on our block.
And I also understood that you don't own your bay window either as amkindc said.
Obviously, this has been in effect for a long time. I seem to remember that "The Majesty of CAptiol Hill" has some history on this. If I can find my book I'll try to offer more. Poo poo, what I do remember is that the city is not responsible for the yard, etc. This land is "whatever the word is" to the property owner to keep up for the enjoyment of all. Hence you can't put a privacy fence around the front and are supposed to keep it planted and kept up. Also the reason for all the wrought iron fences in the front of properties, at least in the Historic District.
amkindc
You are responsible for keeping up your yard, even if the city technically owns it. With the windows it totally depends on the house.
Its a shame the burden of keeping your yard clean is greater on the homeowner than it is the business owner.
I've always heard that the original reason for DC owning most of our front yard space is because that's where gas and water/sewer lines often run, and the city and utility companies had to retain control so they could get in and do work if needed.
That may or may not be true, but it sounds good, so I'll go with that.
And, yes, sometimes the city actually owns the land under parts of our houses. If your house has a cute buildout in front or side (like a bay) chances are real good the city actually owns the land underneath.
my understanding was that the area in front of your house, if you're in the l'enfant city, is called public parking. now, that has nothing to do with parking a car, but park as in green space, like central park, or lincoln park.
OK...here it is from "The Majesty of Capitol Hill"...."the iron fenced front yards of Capitol Hill are the result of another law. When L'Enfant laid out the city of Washington, he planned that the average street would be at least one hundred feet wide. But after the Civil War, the tremendous cost of paving such wide streets led the city to enact the "Parking Act" in 1870. An owner was allowed to fence or enclose all of the unused space in front of his house. And so the front gardens of CH houses are usually on public property."
"A year later, the City Council decided to allow owners to build certain projections such as bays and towers four feet beyond the property line. Porches and steps could extend even further onto public property."
How old are the houses in Trinidad and SoFlo?
amkindc
You could live in Baltimore, and not own any of the land that your house sits on...
that's the problem with these antiquated laws in dc.
many of them are so out of date, that they hold the city back.
inked, you're a "counsel" in the making, i'll totally support you if you hold a movement to revisit the old dc laws. i'm sure 'the layman {i.e. richard}' would definitely tag along.
eh, forget it.
you already have too much on your plate, i'm sure.
but it would be nice to debunk some of these very outdated laws.
i have no doubt that someone will will opine against them. perhaps even me!
some folks learn the system and abide by it. others learn the system and challenge it.
why can't we own our front yards?
do we live in mexico? (look land ownership in mexico through your school "free internet access".
dc is much like mexico, where you don't actually own your full property. (good topic for your LL.M.,, yeah?). check it out...
AND most folks that buy in the area have no idea about this.
an issue that could jam up the courts for years, if yer good. :o)
In some jurisdictions the property line extends to the Right Of Way which usually is the center of the street. The city or jurisdiction 'owns' the sidewalk and tree lawn, but the howmeowner is responsible for it. In other words, if someone slips and falls on the icy sidewalk the homewoner is liable for any injuries. So, how many people take care of their sidewalks?
BTW, a planner mentioned to me that you own from your front door back to the property line behind the house in D of C. The front steps are the Districts. If you want to replace them you will have a serious hassle doing so. Also, trying to tear down a detached garage to rebuild will also be a long drawn out process that will keep you form doing anything. So, try to replace a single wall at a time. An before you know it, you have a new structure and have by-passed the permit process.
As for Jimmy's? I think they should sue the General Contractor and Developer for causing damage to and an unsafe environment. They were the ones that ruined a business. Right?
This is a really interesting post. My house in Trinidad is from '38, and the streets weren't planned until after the Civil War. The property line is about at the half-way point of my front yard. So the question here is "why"?
Were the streets meant to be much wider even when they were planned later on?
Anon 1:24 in Trinidad, has the city come through and replaced your lead pipes yet? When they do/did, they replace the lead pipes only up to the property line unless you pay the extra $$ to get the copper all the way to the house. On our street, they put a round metal plate (over a shaft that goes down to a valve on the pipe) right at the property line.
Rob-
They came last summer/fall and replaced the pipes on my street/neighbors yard- but for some reason they did nothing to my yard? I'm not sure why not? They did stuff up until the planter space in the side walk but that was it. I've been wondering about this....
Signed
Trinidad home owner
Lead pipe replacement...
If you have any sort of retaining walls or such you really have to communicate with WASA before they show up to replace lead pipes.
I have a property on the Hill that sits back from the street, behind a 100 year old retaining wall. WASA decided to replace the lead pipes through the front yard, to the private property line (even though the property tested safe for lead in the water).
I had to threaten to sue to get them to show up with the special boring equipment that would allow them to dig from the street, under the sidewalk and under my retaining wall.
They were originally just going to tear down my wall and the adjacent gardens behind it. A contractor estimated the cost to me to repair would have been about $20,000, and would have required all kinds of permit approval to put it back together.
Moral of the story - if you think you have a situation where WASA will be digging up too much, demand that they bring their special boring equipment and dig under, not through (they may not do this just to save your landscaping, but they are required to do this if it means saving your retaining walls or other structures). They have such equipment, but it's expensive and they would rather cost you tens of thousands than show up and do it right.
On city ownership of front yards.
I say let sleeping dogs lie. You aren't ever going to get this law changed, as the cost to the city to redraw all these plats would be astronomical. And you'd still have limited legal right, as every utility company would rightfully still need access to utilities in your yard.
Plus, it'd give the city an excuse to up your tax assessment. We're already going to have a huge issue with tax assessments in the next couple years that are higher than our actual house values, and I'd hate to give the city a reason to justify higher taxes.
My house [in the edge of Trinidad] was built in 1913. Many houses in Trinidad are from the same time as mine, but the more northern portion wasn't built out until the 1940s. Some of the houses in SoFlo actually date to the late 1800s [most are more recent].
Trinidad Homeowner, your property line may extend all the way out. Unless you requested [and paid them] WASA only went to where the public water line ends. Do you know if the rest of the line, and your internal hook up, are copper or lead?
Trinidad home owner: that's interesting. Given the process as it was described to me, I can think of at least three scenarios that might have happened at your house:
1) When they dug the "test pit" out by the street, it turned out you didn't have lead piping going to your house. Can you see the pipe as it enters the house downstairs? It could be that a previous owner had already paid a private plumber to replace the lead pipes.
2) Maybe on your street the property line is at or close to the planter space where they dug that pit and they did copper up to that point, leaving the lead going into your house from there.
3) Maybe on your street the property line is right at the house, which would make it crazy for them to stop 6in. short of the house w/ the copper so they did it all the way into the house.
Did they come into your house at all? Can you see what material the pipe coming in is?
Rob-
I'm not sure I can't see any piping in my front yard. Before I bought the previous owners had turned the basement into an English basement approx 4yrs ago,perhaps at that time the piping was changed.
My english basement starts at where my porch begins so the basement entrance is about 4-5ft further out than my front door.
I have about 15ft between sidewalk and porch..
Trinidad home owner
Trinidad Homeowner,
first check the connection inside your house [by the water main]. See if it is lead or copper. Second, you can call WASA and ask them about this. They should have records and be able to tell you about your pipe.
Okay- Will have to gain access from the apartment downstairs.
Trinidad home owner
Poo Poo,
No, we don't live in Mexico--you bought what you bought. The laws were on the books and your property line was reflected on the survey done for your purchase. Don't blame the system for the decision you made based on full information.
Post a Comment