1. A corner store/deli is expected on the southwestern corner of 4th and H.
2. This one is from the 6A ABL Committee minutes. A new tavern, Miss Whiskey's Golden Dollar, seeks to open in the 1100 block of H. The minutes give the address as 1108, but I've heard 1104, so I'm not certain. The first floor will be loungy space, but things may pick up a bit on the second floor where a dj will sometimes spin. The too tiny for a kitchen, the un-themed tavern will offer a short menu of sandwiches. The tavern will be co-owned by familiar faces Mark Thorpe and Kelly Sheeran. Both live in the neighborhood. Mr. Thorpe is a partial owner of Jimmy Valentine's on Bladensburg, and Ms. Sheeran tends bar at the Rock and Roll Hotel.
3. Spoiled and Rotten Kids Boutique and Spa will occupy the second floor of 1204 H Street. The owner of Philadelphia Water Ice Factory, Khadijah Bronson, brings you this spot to take the tykes to pick out new clothing, or when they need manicures or pedicures. The push is for a spring opening. More info on this project is forthcoming.
4. A long vacant building in the middle of the 1300 block is now undergoing a renovation. No news on the plans.
91 comments:
Spoiled and Rotten Kids Boutique and Spa...brings you this spot to take the tykes when they need manicures or pedicures
I've long since established my Yuppie Scum(tm) bona fides: I mean, we have both a Bugaboo, and a McLaren to trundle my daughter around in, depending on the terrain and mission. Bought tickets to Baby Loves Disco at the R&R Hotel.
But even I am puzzled by this one.
I remain open-minded yet skeptical, and ready to be convinced...
[Somewhat tongue-in-cheek]
H Street has been kickin' lately, hopefully the deli on 4th will be a higher end deli with choice wines, good sandwhiches etc...
Bring it on!
Anyone have an update on Pap and Petey's, the longer it takes to open the more worried I get....
Inked,
I think you might of gotten punk'd on Boutique and Spa entry...
Anon 4:02,
I can assure that entry is legit.
...brings you this spot to take the tykes when they need manicures or pedicures....
To hell with openmindedness: the spa aspect sounds stupid. And premised on what I perceive as poor analysis of the market and competitive landscape. Kids clothing, fine.
Also...isn't there Spoiled Rotten Canine Boutique in Adams Morgan? Can't imagine the owners would be all that happy with the name hijacking, even if they are in different markets...
I'm all about development on H Street, even if it's quirky.
Wouldn't it be great if we could get something like Beauty Bar--part spa, part bar? I think wine + pedicure = perfection.
In addition to the manicures, she will have clothing, including a organic cotton line. She's right next to Stella Bleu, it makes sense to me George.
If you've never had the pleasure of talking with Khadijah you should give her a holler when shes around. Very nice and from what I picked up from her personality this store is definitely not a joke. all in good fun.
i live at 4th and H and can't wait for a corner store to go in- there. I hope its not being opened by the snails at pap and peteys..
What's the deal with H Street Country Club / Par Bar? The most recent reports here from Joe Englert suggested construction would start in mid-January, IIRC -- but I've peeked in the window multiple times recently and don't see any sign of anything going on in there.
Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, one other question: how do you get into the Majestic? My gf and I were wandering down H one Friday night and thought to try their food, but all the doors around there seemed locked (and very disused) except for the ground-level Carribean takeout.
Thanks for any enlightenment.
Did Khadijah happen to mention when she will reopen? I'm really missing her philly cheese steaks.
eh, it's all in good fun. i can't wait until someone opens up a magic shop on H street.
it'll be cool to have a whoopee cussion place in close proximity.
I just hope these new businesses will do something to the fronts of their buildings to make them more attractive from the street. So far I've been disappointed in many of the 'newer' places because their shop fronts and their signage look so dilapidated. The insides are great, but the outsides look so run down. Paint a wall, add a nice sign (and not some banner hanging at an angel or with one corner not secured), clean a window, just take pride in your business and neighborhood!
I so agree with you Bill. I find it hard to get comfortable eating at any of these establishments just based on cosmetics. I feel many of these places are rushing to open up and beat the rent hikes etc, and are doing minimal to polish up the looks of these places..They really need to take a notes from 8th street...
Just my opinions- and If I had the resources to open a business those with be my areas where I payed close attention to...
Trindad Home ower
while we're on the topics of outward appearance....this is probably something that is not a new thought but does anyone have any information on the history of trying to brick the sidewalks on H? it really does so much to beautify the street.
The Streetscape project, which is slated to begin at the end of March, they say, includes new sidewalks and lighting and trees. The sidewalks will be some kind of concrete aggregate, whatever that means. Apparently that material is historically accurate for this area, not brick.
Concrete aggregate?
Wow. That does not sound good. If you want paying customers to come to your street, I think brick streets look better than anything. See Barracks Row. Heck, how can you go with concrete when practically all the other renovated streets in Cap Hill are brick?
The more details I hear about the streetscaping the more scared I am that DC is already screwing things up/throwing money away with bad decisions. Speaking of bad decisions, how many trollies has DC lined up for the trolly line? The answer is 1. 1 trolly for the entire line.
Here's something about concrete aggregate for those who are interested (and willing to keep an open mind):
http://www.concretenetwork.com/concrete/exposedaggregate/what_is_exposed_aggregate.html
It doesn't have to be ugly, if it's done well.
And, for the record, we've already heard the arguments for and against the use of brick along H Street here on FrozenTropics - we even had an Anonymous poster who sounded like a PooPoo disciple weighing in pretty heavily. Check out this discussion from 10 months ago: http://frozentropics.blogspot.com/2007/04/for-forseeable-future.html
I have my fingers (and toes) crossed that many places will spruce up their business fronts when the streetscaping takes place. If H Street looks ghetto fabulous, then it will stay ghetto fabulous.
I, too, would perfer some sort of brick sidewalk along H Street, but parts of Conn. Ave around the zoo have concrete sidewalks and people still dine outside at the street cafes. While I think brick would look a THOUSAND times better, its not the end of the world with the concrete. The new street trees, traffic lights, street lights, etc. will definintly help.
And not to hijack the message thread, but this is where I think an active Business Improvement District would be great or at least a functional merchant's association. They could have at least lobbied the city for brick sidewalks. Who knows whether it would have been successful or not, but it would have been a voice pushing H Street in the right direction.
Back to building my new bookcases. Perfect activity for a rainy day.
"Wow. That does not sound good. If you want paying customers to come to your street, I think brick streets look better than anything. See Barracks Row. Heck, how can you go with concrete when practically all the other renovated streets in Cap Hill are brick?"
-->Cost/benefit analysis dictates concrete aggregate. More durable product and it only makes sense for such a large area of sidewalk Remember last year when 8th Street from Maryland to Penn Ave was ripped up for months? Almost all of the brick had to be replaced due to upheaval/frost. Aggregate can look quite nice as well.
Is there any plan/codes for signage and store fronts once the streetscape project is finished? I think that H Street has tremendous potential....right now it is a visual assault. I can't imagine the new streetscape with the the signage and look of the store fronts as they exist now. Especially if you want this to be a welcoming retail corridor.
On the Pap & Peetey's question, we were wondering that ourselves. On a recent trip to Sidamo, we saw two people inside watching one of the bar TV's. The place has seemingly been finished for some time now.
"Heck, how can you go with concrete when practically all the other renovated streets in Cap Hill are brick?"
NEWS FLASH:
This is H street.
Despite what your realtor told you, it is not Capitol Hill, never really was, and never will be.
If you want to live on the Hill, make more money and move a few blocks south.
Chris,
the entrance for the Majestic is right out front. What night did you try to go? I notice the Majestic doesn't have a Monday night schedule. That makes me wonder if they are closed Mondays. I know that Rose's Dream hosts private parties on Mondays and Tuesdays.
I'm sure the concrete sidewalks will be just fine. The main thing is that they're not cracked and broken, etc...
Pretty amusing that this is the nicest example of concrete aggregate the "Concrete Network" could find to put on their website, though.
My understanding is the concrete aggregate is supposed to be something like the pavement around the Mall and the Capitol. I don't have a problem with that as someone who lives on a brick lined street where I've nearly tripped over tree roots about a million times. It's lower maintenance and more historically accurate. What's wrong with that?
NEWS FLASH: This is H street. Despite what your realtor told you, it is not Capitol Hill, never really was, and never will be. If you want to live on the Hill, make more money and move a few blocks south.
NEWS FLASH: H Street is not the demarcation for Capitol Hill. Some of the H Street area legally is Capitol Hill. The remainder is Old City, if I remember correctly...
The cost of brick sidewalks are really really high, although I don't know the amount/s.f. It would have added millions to the cost of the streetscape project. They do put bricks in historic districts. H St. isn't currently designated.
The conglomerate is the same as the sidewalks on the National Mall, in front of the Adams building of the Library of Congress, I think in front of the Capitol Police Building on the 100 block of D St. NE, etc.
It's concrete with a top layer of attractive stone.
The idea was actually spurred on by Gina Arlotto, a Greater H Street resident, trained historic preservationist, and schools activist, within a thread on the anc-6a list.
2. Ever since 1987, groceries at 4th and H SW corner failed. I hope that whoever is doing it now is taking the lead from quality purveyors rather than run of the mill folks.
Some of the H Street area legally is Capitol Hill. The remainder is Old City, if I remember correctly...
Old city is anything south of Florida Ave (North Boundry Street). The historic district, which is an convienent geographicly, is capitol hill.
It ends at F street. So if some of H street in legally capitol hill, is the rest illegal?
thanks richard -- it is great getting some history behind some things. i was the original brick-question-asker. concrete ag sounds good with me. as long as it doesn't take 10 years to install :)
I think some people are getting what is "legally" Capitol Hill (all the way up to FL Ave.) and what is considered/designated "Historic (District) Capitol Hill" mixed up.
I think Silver Spring is Capitol Hill North.
To all those who are questioning the lack of facade improvements at many of the new businesses on H St. I can't speak for every new business owner, but for many of us, there are reasons why we aren't sinking several thousand dollars into sprucing up our facades right away.
1. No one wants to spend thousands of dollars painting or doing other cosmetic improvements to their buildings before having the city and utility companies rip up the sidewalks and roadway. You think they care that someone just painted their building ?
2. As for signage, there are city and other organization sponsored programs that are supposed to help business owners on this and a few other designated corridors, get assistance in covering sign cost. Of course when your dealing with these programs, they don't just send you a check the following week. Also, many sign designs need to be approved by different parties anyway so that we're conforming to the rest of the street and not looking like the corner of 7th & H NW or Times Square.
I have to say, without coming across as being to defensive, that I've noticed a lot of people who have no clue about what's involved in doing business on this corridor, but they're so quick to assume the business or property owners are just being negligent with their businesses. And they're quick to want to spend thousands of someone elses dollars without understanding the risks or ramifications of such an action.
I'm just sayin'
Frank from SOVA
Change does not happen overnight. Especially when government is involved.
Frank, thanks for some insight into the signage. My concern was not so much the new businesses but the entire look of the Street. There are many interesting buildings, many seem to be obscured by large signs, very unattractive bottom buildouts and lots of interesting building detail is covered by wrapping at various levels on some buildings.
I guess I was wondering if there is some sort of design/code guidelines in place that govern the entire look of the street. I don't know how you would make existing businesses conform, but once that streetscape is done....the existing buildings will look worse or maybe better(because of the buffer).
lead, and the other folks will follow.
i'm sort of disheartened to hear that new businesses compromise their vision for DC government funding.
look at englert....
relying on DC is not the way to go.
hey, i support little upstarts, but if you want to be a catalyst on H street, methinks you need to get some kind of investor support.
i'm not knocking your 'style' of creating a business, but if you abide by DC handouts, you're likely doomed.
best of luck to you.
HHHm Okay- if thats your excuse I'll buy it, but I don't think the work on the streets will do any damage that a Power washer or hose wouldn't be able to fix.
I see most delis downtown house down the side walkes in front of their businesses on a daily business.
I power wash the front of my house atleast 3 times a year. My house is my investment that I spent my "own" thousands of dollars to make it appealing to me. Oh well.
Oh did I mention the city dug up the pavement on my block last year... Not only did my house look good before and during, but now that the streets are repaved it's way beautiful.
Trinidad Home owner
Inked,
the majestic is closed for good i believe. You might want to check to mkae sure, but the old owners come to the argo and I believe they gave it up. I think the building is for rent.
Thanks Scott, I wondered about that from Chris' question. I just didn't want to start any rumors without some basis.
poo poo,
Do you even know me ? What makes you think I'm relying on "DC handouts", or any other handouts for that matter. I have financed my business %100 entirely with my own money. There's not a single dollar in my business that has come from DC, a bank, or anyone else for that matter. Joe has been doing this for a much longer period of time than I have since you want to make a comparison. And no, I don't have partners or investors by choice. However, if there's money that's being set aside for small business owners to make certain improvements on specific corridors, then why is it that someone has to be "relying" on a "handout' to take advantage of certain programs. You think Abdo never got any money from the city ? Give me a break. The amount i would qualify for is less than %3 of the money I've already put into the business. So why would I be "relying" on a handout.
Since you have such strong opinions about how people should be running their businesses, why don't you come down to my business one day ( i"m here from 5:45am - 10:00pm every single weekday, and almost as long on weekends) and share some of your ideas with me. I promise not to reveal who you are. Otherwise, keep your totally uninformed opinions to yourself. I don't at all find your opinions well researched. Clearly you just like getting a rise out of your own material.
Frank from SOVA
Trinidad Home Owner - I'm in Trinidad, too and my house is really dirty. Do you power wash it yourself or do you have someone do it? If the latter can you recommend them? How much is it?
I can think of a host of ways the street work could hurt a business physically and also by reducing their revenue. Vibrations could cause cracks, a stone could be thrown up causing damage, depending on how much digging there is there could be settling, right on up to they sever a gas or water line, making business impossible for a couple of days.
I think it's best to defer to the small business owner on matters of what's a wise investment of their money.
Rob- I invested $150 bucks on a power washer and I do it myself.
It's just like the bath tub- if you don't clean often- it takes lot more effort to get it clean.
So thats why I do the power wash atleast 3x's a year- but I usually hose the exterior/windows as I water my yard.
Oh it works miracles on the walk ways to. I got rid of all that black moldy looking build up on walkway and stairs.
The power wash can be quite messy- but hey on hot summer days it's a nice cool off.
Trinidad Home owner
I saw someone hanging a "For Rent" sign outside the Majestic just last night. Too bad...I would have liked to check it out.
I'm kinda curious about Pap & Petey's myself. Obviously I don't know the ins and outs of the process, but from the outside it sure looks close to being ready to open. Someone was asking about H Street Country Club. I was asked Joe Englert about it at Sova a few weeks ago. They're working on it, but it's gonna be a little while. I love the concept, myself.
Looking forward to Sticky Rice opening soon, and crossing my fingers that Sova gets their liquor license today.
What I don't understand is how a kitchen couldn't fit in the 1104 or 1108 properties. They both seem large enough from the street.
Frank,
Not that your establishment does not already merit my business (it does -- SOVA is awesome), but after your eloquent putdown of Poo Poo I will make double sure I get out to your place this week to buy a latte and crumb cake.
You deserve no less. ;-)
Jamie,
I think they would lose a great deal of space. You are basically looking at the footprint of the Pug. A kitchen would be a tight fit.
Everyone's a critic. The great thing about this blog is it's a great place to express and opinion. The downside is that it's a great place to voice an opinion.
from 15 years (or so) working in bars/restaurants/coffee shops/etc the biggest thing is there's no pleasing everyone. Frank, go ahead and glitz up your facade. The next thing you know poo poo or "anonymous" will be moaning that they don't like the color, or its tacky, or something else. In other words keep doing what you are doing
Just my two cents.
Frank,
Doo Doo has been making uninformed statements for some time. I know it's hard, but you just have to ignore and pitty the sad little man.
Frank,
That. Was. Awesome.
It's been a while since I've been to your shop. I'll have to remedy that now:)
BTW, any luck yet on your liquor license?
I just saw a sign "X11 Restaurant and Lounge" over the has-been Cluck-U. Last night even saw some fancy lights being installed inside. Does anyone know what the deal is? Is it a dance club? concert venue like R&R or just a plain restaurant/lounge?
Neo, that is XII [Twelve]. It's Bernard Gibson's new restaurant and lounge. I believe he's going to have some pool tables up there.
Pool tables are what I've been hoping for, and why I've been impatient about the opening of H Street Country Club. Good news if XII is going to have them.
Oh, and Inked/Scott/Jamie, thanks for the (unfortunately bad) news re: the Majestic.
On Pap & Petey's--
I saw the door was open one day last week, so I stopped in and spoke with the owner, Duke Cross. He is still in need of one more permit from the District, but was heading off to get a document notarized, which he thought should allow the permit to issue.
A very good sign is that he had just finished interviewing some folks to be bartenders. As soon as he gets the permit, he will be placing his liquor order and throw the doors open.
Nobody wants to see Pap & Petey's open more than the owner--he has been carrying the building & renovation costs for over a year...
Best,
Alan Kimber
ANC Commissioner, 6C05
Frank -- Try hard not to take seriously what "poo poo" says. His schtick is to say unsubstantiated, unjustifiably nasty crap to people, and then vanish when he gets called on it. I'm still waiting to see him apologize to the folks at Jimmy's Tire; I suspect I'll be waiting a long time.
After opening Cluck-U as a "restaurant" and not a "fast-food restaurant" against the support of our ANC, I'm skeptical of anything else Bernard Gibson is doing in the neighborhood. Does anyone know if this new venture, XII, has the support of the ANC? How do we know its not going to become some late night hip-hop club?
re: spoiled and rotten kids boutique on h Street. check out this discussion on the ny times.
i guess this business concept has been getting some traction lately, but the commenters don't seem sold on it (nor am i).
Re: anon 10:31's post, I dunno the answer to your question re: ANC6A's opinion on XII; but regarding your last comment, we have late-night rock and roll clubs on H. Why are those OK, but late-night hip hop clubs not OK?
Anon 12:24, you beat me to the punch, but I'm also very curious why anon 10:31 thinks it's ok to have rock and roll music at numerous establishments, but not hip hop music at one if they so choose. Sounds a bit racist to me, no ?
It is (racisit). There is generally more violence coming out of after hours clubs catering to the Hip Hop community. How often do you hear of a shooting outside of a rock-n-roll establishment vs. a Hip Hop establishment? You might can say the news reports are biased racism, but how can you ignore the statistics? Maybe the comment was racist or maybe doing nothing to change the reality is racist. You decide. Either way, I would support a jazz & blues place coming to H St. I do not support a Hip-hop club in the neighborhood. Many African Americans in the neighborhood would likely feel the same. Does anyone know if he has gone before the ANC regarding his new establishment?
Why does if have to be a black/white issue? Why can't it simply be about the clientele being attracted into the neighborhood?
I'd much rather see more mature R&B fans coming to an establishment on H than immature Hip-Hop fans. But maybe I'm being biased and prejudiced against Hip-hop.
The owner of XII has gone before 6A. I haven't been following the progress closely, but I'm not sure where the Hip-Hop dismay is coming from on this one. I haven't heard anything that would suggest that this would be a late night hip-hop spot. Secondly, I'll remind people that Rose's Dream has the occasional go-go band, as did the Majestic and I'm not aware of any issues occurring there. I haven't seen anything to alarm me about Mr. Gibson's business.
Sorry, I'm just not a big fan of Mr. Gibson after his bringing yet another fast-food establishment to H St. and then trying to convince the community that Cluck-U was not fast food. But maybe that wasn't Mr. Gibson's fault but DCRA's fault. Either way, my opinion is that he doesn't have the best interest of H St. in mind with his businesses and I'm very sceptical of anything he's about to open. Hopefully, he will prove me wrong.
Oh that post about Hip-Hop is very IGNORANT. Wow can't believe that was said. I would prefer to walk to a Hip-Hop club in my "own" neighborhood rather than having to go into anothers. I support all the other spots on H st as well. I see many drunkards stumbling out of Rock and Rolls bars acting drunk and disorderly, peeing on streets etc... Go to any mainstream club and they all play Hip-Hop... I still can't believe you said that..WOW again....
And Anon 4:04, there are many others out there that would PREFER that you go to other areas for your Hip Hop. Honestly, I'd prefer that the rock-n-rollers not be disorderly in my neighbohood either - but at least they'll be less likely to be packin'
Many out there know its true but in the age of political correctness they'd rather attack someone for actually saying it instead of addressing the problem of why so many young people (and in particular young African-American men) are able to get there hands on guns and kill each other. That's the real problem, not my comments about Hip Hop clubs - but it is more likely to happen at that "type" of club and I'd rather not have it around my house. Who would?
I love how people here get excited when they want to attack someone for racist comments as opposed to looking at the causes of racism out there. Its not this one racist here, it's much bigger than me. Besides, I like Emenim, I just don't want him playing in my backyard. Ha.
Well, I think the boutique and Spa will do good. Girls like to get there nails painted and its nothing wrong with children learning early to keep themselves nicely groomed...feet and nails! Now that will give my kids something to look forward to on the weekends . I think something different on H St is needed besides BARS and Taverns. My kids will love to go there, and I will gladly pay as long as the prices are reasonable.
I'd much rather see someone drunk and randomly shooting a gun than pissing on a sidewalk. It's much more exciting. Pissing on sidewalks is so old school. Plus, random shootings add to the edgy, hipster, culture we are promoting on H ST.
Allow me to introduce myself. I am Bernard Gibson, the owner of Twelve (XII) Restaurant & Lounge. Forget about what you have heard. Let's deal with facts and move in a positive direction for our community. XII is a theme lounge where all are welcome. We have invested a large amount of money to bring a positive venue to the community. We spoke to the neighbors and the ANC and XII listened. The menu is similar to Apple Bee's and Friday's. Dine with your family or friends and meet new friends. XII will offer live entertainment such as r&b, jazz, pop, indi-rock,reggae and comedy,just to name a few. We have 2 floors with plush decor and a rooftop summer garden coming this spring. Pool tables, touch screen games and tv's on each level. A lot of people say they want to frequent a good place to relax and enjoy themselves. Well XII is it. Come and check it out. Visit us at twelvedc.com. More details coming soon with grand opening in a few weeks. H is for hot and we are on fire.
Do people have nothing better to do than to get offended at an anonymous post about hip-hop on a community blog?
I'm happy to hear about another retail establishment that is opening. I thought it sounded very cute and a nice diversion for mothers and daughters. Let's hope the merchandise is great.
I'm very discouraged by the amount of "bars/lounges/taverns that are opening.
Anon 8:05 ... I think you're right. My opinion is that we have enough bars and lounges for now. I wish retail would start to move onto H Street. The Dollar Store just ain't doin' it for me...
Yes, the small (compared to other entertainment areas in the District) number of bars/lounges on H Street are keeping the non-bars away. All we have to do is keep those buildings vacant instead, and the retail will come. After all, that's worked well for us for the last 40 years.
Oh, wait.
Thank you Mr. Gibson for your recent comments. I am more encouraged by what you say about XII but as long as you're associated with Cluck-U-Chicken and bringing another "Fast Food" restaurant to the corridor (and trying to avoid define it as such), I'm afraid I remain skeptical. However, for the sake of the improvement of H, I wish you the best.
I'm not sure what other entertainment areas you are referring to, but I quite like a lively retail area like Georgetown, seems there is a good mix there with LOTS of retail. I don't see the ratio anywhere near approaching that.
Stop with the highhanded attitude about vacant buildings. No one wants that. Liquor pays the rent and the forces at play on H Street now are going to make it very difficult for interesting retail(assuming you don't want it turned into Starbucks, Banks and chains). I'm tired of yet more "bars/taverns/lounges".
But you are right, I fear we are going to wait a lont time for any critical mass of decent retail(if it comes at all).
Mr. Gibson:
I hope your portrayal of the benign nature of your new venture is correct.
It doesn't take long for the neighborhood to determine if a supposedly peaceful club is in fact a problem. The installation of metal detectors, the bling-bling crowd coming and going,..... not exactly a secret.
Assuming your portrayal is correct I wish you the best in your venture.
Thank you Hillman. Your comments bring to light EXACTLY what I was already thinking.
People questioned the man's venture, he comes on the board to explain the theme and still people are offering up conditional well wishes.
Repeated references to a "hip hop" crowd, metal detectors and the bling bling crowd are annoying to say the least.
By the way, the robber the police caught in my alley behind G St was not a member of the hip hop crowd and was not wearing any bling. Neither was the "white" woman arrested in the same alley or the "white" couple that stole a car on G Street.
Everyone needs to chill out. If you do not like the venue, do not go but please stop the whining.
anon @ 4:22, your comment about hip-hop was ridiculous...there were MASS RAPES at woodstock 99....nothing like that has EVER taken place at a hip-hop concert...does this mean rock festivals should be banned? OF COURSE NOT. dimebag darryl of pantera was shot to death ONSTAGE during a rock concert. should we ban rock concerts? OF COURSE NOT. you're being ridiculous and not basing your arguments on facts. i spent ten years promoting hip-hop events in this city (1997-2007) and there was NEVER, repeat, NEVER an incident of violence at my events. Not a fight, not a knife, not a gun, NOTHING. This included weekly hip-hop events with no metal detectors and no security in a small venue before U Street became the happy yuppie mecca it is today, as well as downtown clubs with legally adequate but (from my point of view) relatively minimal security (i.e. no line of 10 brawny guys between the stage and the audience).
I bet you can't name ONE incident of someone being shot outside a specifically hip-hop event in this city. Very few of the clubs (if any) play exclusively hip-hop...DJs hear mix R&B and reggae in their sets regularly. At the straight hip-hop events I have attended, such as the Pete Rock event at Cue Bar a week ago, there is no "bling bling" (how 99 of you all) in sight, nor are there metal detectors. You people have clearly never been to a hip-hop event and have no idea what you're talking about. I've been going to hip-hop events and shows for 15 years. I've never seen a shooting at a hip-hop event. And, yes, I do hang out after the show lets out or the venue lets out to network, politic, pass out flyers, flirt with pretty girls, etc. No guns, no knife fights, nothing.
Get educated about cultures and subcultures other than your own before you make yourself look ignorant.
quick addendum: nation used to use metal detectors. i cant think of another spot that did.
Wasn't there some sort of incident at Phish Tea?
I'd like to clarify that I have NO indication that this club is going to have metal detectors or draw a bling-bling crowd.
If I created that impression I sincerely apologize.
I was simply presenting a 'what if' scenario, based on danger signs communities have seen with clubs before. I did not mean to imply that there were similar signs associated with this club (which of course hasn't even opened yet).
So, again, I have NO info about this club, pro or con.
But I will give Mr. Gibson credit for coming on this blog to present his viewpoint.
As for 'types of crowds'..... I don't think we'd welcome a biker bar where people were shooting other people or strangers on the street any more than we'd welcome a hip-hop club that had the same behavior (albeit from a clientele that looked different). It's the behavior that people don't welcome, not the music per se. If the music happens without the violence, that's great. If the violence and disruption comes, then there's an issue.
Anyone who is interested in seeing more retail in this part of town instead of the "horrible" bar scene we have now should walk right now to their nearest bank and ask for a loan to start thier own business. Too much? Then shut up and thank the few entrepenurs who have decided to help raise your property vaule while making a modest living for themselves in your neighborhood. Also, don't forget to actually patronize the great retail establishment we do have on H st, rather than complain about what we don't.
You obvioulsly are missing the point, 8th and el....no use conversing with people who can only look at the street one way...let it all be bars and taverns, as I said before the forces inplay make it tough for retail...unless it's a large chain.
If you were so interested in "your" street maybe you should have attended the program at the Building Museum last night and educated yourself abit.
"How do we know its not going to become some late night hip-hop club?"
"Sorry, I'm just not a big fan of Mr. Gibson after his bringing yet another fast-food establishment to H St. and then trying to convince the community that Cluck-U was not fast food. But maybe that wasn't Mr. Gibson's fault but DCRA's fault. Either way, my opinion is that he doesn't have the best interest of H St."
"I'd much rather see someone drunk and randomly shooting a gun than pissing on a sidewalk. It's much more exciting. Pissing on sidewalks is so old school. Plus, random shootings add to the edgy, hipster, culture we are promoting on H ST."
"I wish retail would start to move onto H Street. The Dollar Store just ain't doin' it for me..."
"But you are right, I fear we are going to wait a lont time for any critical mass of decent retail(if it comes at all)."
A few gems from my fellow neighbors. I suppose the last one is yours, anon 1:43? Tell me what I missed, if you wouldn't mind? Not one of these posters owns a business here, yet it's the bars owners faults there's no Gap in our part of town. Why does it have to be an inide store, or some large chain that opens next? DTLR and Shoe City are local business, love it or leave it, and cater to the residents of the region, whether some people love it or not. No one's stopping you from opening your own shop if you feel retail's what H st needs. In fact, if you have a cool concept, I'll even come in.
Too bad I missed whatever it was that happened at the building museum last night. I had to study for a few midterms. What I miss that was so important my absence makes me less interested in the neighborhood?
Don't express your opinions everybody -- 8th and El gets too worked up...
WELL. I agree there should be more retail and if Joe Engert stop buying up everything and putting bars in every building that he purchases, maybe retail will come. You bet all the vacant building on Hst has a had an offer on it from Joe E. So I am sure those vacant building are vacant because the owner is not selling it. We have Stella Bleu retail which had nice upscale clothes and the community didnt really support her like the could have. And now she is going out of Buisness! Now we have a Kids Boutique & Spa coming which is suppose to be sought of upscale (ORGANIC CLOTHES) but REASONABLE.Lets see how many people support that. Long story short The Community needs to support retail because as long as retail business go OUT OF BUISNESS no trendy retailers are going to come on Hst. Big retailers want to see other retailers (small or big) doing good and that will bring them to Hst.
I did attend the program at the Building Museum last night. It was interesting and confirmed much of what I already thought, but when you hear it in a public forum it drives things home.
A few points:
-it was stated that when Joe(he was part of the panel)started buying buildings they were $100,000and now they are $800,000-$1,000,000. The banks won't lend money on them because the assessments are nowhere near that. This was sited-all these vacant buildings that people are sitting on, both on H Street and Georgia avenue - as one of the major detrements to further development(esp retail) on these streets. It was suggested that without a strong "use or lose it" plan from the city that this is a tough nut to crack.
-in order for these streets to become lively neighborhood(as well as attracting other consumers)places retail needs to start happening. It was suggested that the number of liqour liscenses needed to be limited on H Street. Commerce is important and brings another layer to the street.
-Richard Layman has posted that in area like H Street...rents for retail should be $8-$12/sq ft. From what I have gleaned rents on H Street are more than double that, the buildings are a wreck and the landlords are not willing to do anything. Most of the spaces are small sq ft and as Mr. Layman has said when you work backwards the numbers don't work.
-So the numbers don't really work for retail rent and I highly doubt that they work if you purchase(if you can get the loan)at 8-a mil.
-The architect present(I forget his name)was focused on retail and commerce. He stated that you can't have "holes" with retail...you need to be pulled along. And as shopper, that is critical....think about that on H Street. You have Noveau Fleur on
5th and have/had Stella Bleu on 13th!!! You need at least one solid block both sides to get this going.
-I recently read an article on the Govanis Canal(Brooklyn), a toxic cesspool...the city started cleaning it up. The garment factory owners along the canal, whose production was nil because of off shore manufacturing now, started offering spaces for rent at $8-$12 sg ft(there's that number)to artists and designers and retailers. The buildings filled up and a vacant parking lot across the street is being developed by WHole Foods. They are all afraid the rents will go up.
-The rents are already up on H Street and there is nothing there.
-At a recent 6A zoning meeting the TIF financing was discussed. I believe that 25 million is set aside for H Street. To apply for this, the sq footage has to be large. In fact only 2 or 3 properties on H Street would be eligable...the bigger developments. So none of the myriad of smaller buildings could use this money....but OK, you say, some developer puts retail or a food store in and it gets it started. Well now the rents just went up again the sale prices increase.
It is in H Street's(and the community's)to start to see H Street diversify. As much as I have been reading the blogs, attending ANC meetings and trying to figure out the retail thing, I can't see how it works, unless you have very deep pockets and alot of time. I want nothing more than a vibrant street where I can shop, eat and play for 14 blocks.
Amkindc -- Thanks for your great post. After reading what you wrote, it answered some of my questions but left me with a few others.
First, I don't understand how landlords benefit economically by charging a rent so high that their buildings stay vacant rather than occupied. It seems to me that you charge only what the market will bear. I own a few rental properties (they're all paid off, so I'm not held by a mortgage) in Arlington and Fairfax counties. In a perfect world, I'd charge Lord knows how many thousands of dollars for rent each month. But clearly the market won't bear that -- so I charge at a level to get someone in and committed to a year's or more lease. Taxes still have to be paid and then there is opportunity cost for having a unit sit vacant for a month. As I said, I'm not held by a mortgage so my carrying cost is low. But by that same token, a vacant month costs $1500 in "opportunity." So how do landlords on H Street justify such high rents? Are their tax breaks for buildings (and homes?) that sit vacant?
My second question is a broad discussion question for anyone who is interested in throwing out a response. I was curious to people's thoughts on a "use it or loose it" plan for the city? I can see several points of view here, one being property rights and one being the good of the community. Just curious what people's thoughts were.
Joe Englert said:
Two cents worth, do you realize, I "own" 3% (7 out of 180 spaces) of the available real estate on H? How is that buying up everything??
Also, have you been to Granville Moore's or Argonaut? These are restaurants first, then bars. And Sticky Rice (I gladly sold the building to people with vision for a sushi bar) is going to be another great place to eat.
I am going to open a Mexican restaurant within the year. And the chef (to be advertised later) is a James Beard awardee.
I am also planning to develop an art gallery, small bowling alley, bocce ball courts and sculptors studio.
I have said many times before, night and evening businesses need to mature before daytime and retail becomes a reality.
And you can' discount the city you live in for there being no retail.
For instance, how many of our friends are business people? I bet 99% of all our friends on this blog work in social work, law or government. This is not Napolean's England--a nation of shopkeepers.
Also, greed keeps the street down. Many people have inherited H street buildings from relatives or bought them on the cheap. It just isn't enough for them to make hundreds of thousands of profit on them, it must be close to a million.
One building on H, was bought it the mid-70's for $15,000. It was appraised at $250,000.Four years ago, I offered $325,000. The woman accepted the contract and then at closing, demanded $200,000 more. I walked away and the building is boarded up to this day. Sadly, this is more the rule than the exception on H.
Retail is 5-7 to perhaps 10 years away from happening. And only a sea change in enforcing abandoned property rules or an incredibly positive event, like a great all-day diner will quicken this pace.
Hey Joe -- Thanks for the post. Very interesting. I'm looking forward to your Mexican food restaurant opening up. I would love to be able to walk to a great place with chicken and cheese nachos.
Making myself a little hungry just thinking about it....
Joe,
Tell the truth.....do you "own" the buildings that you speak of or are you a partner in the businesses that occupy them?
Joe, thanks for that further dose of reality. I guess the bottom line is that you can't push water up hill, sit back and relax, because retail will happen only when and if the climate is right.
Bill the Lion, my opinion is that unless you have some program in place to start breaking loose these properties, you can't go forward in large swaths of the city. I'm not knowledgable enough to suggest any ideas, but it seems like since there is a lack of general business principles among the populus, that the only thing you can do is have some governmental enforcement(as you mused, it just seems like it shouldn't have to work that way). But what do you do with people who don't get it? And then you depend on city goevernment that doesn't get it either. Yikes!!!!
Joe Englert said:
joebuster: I will make you a deal. I will send you my fantasy property tax bills and fantasy property insurance bills for my fantasy properties.
Then you can pay all of them with real money. I would be delighted!
P.S.---I don't think it is any neighbor's duty to patronize local business unless that local business is good. This is capitalism not charity.
For instance, SOVA has a great product. If it wasn't, I wouldn't go there a couple of times a week with a whole-hearted endorsement.
PSS--Both SOVA and Pap and Petey's have their liquor licenses now!
Frank will be opening in about 10 days.
Duke at Pap's, opened Saturday night with a soft opening.
Congratulations to two really fine people on their success!
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