Wednesday, October 01, 2008

WBJ: Florida Market Follies

I missed this Washington Business Journal editorial when it came out in August, but you can still catch it online. It's short, but touches on most of the reasons that, as the author makes clear, the New Town legislation stinks big time. Yes, let's redevelop the Market, but let's do it right. You can also read the letter written in response by Ward 5 Councilmember Harry Thomas. Check out these other recent Biz Journal articles on New Town.

Read more about the Market at the Capital City Market blog.

I'd also suggest checking out my August posting of notes from a closed door meeting where Harry Thomas was talking to the landowners and tenants.

17 comments:

DCJaded said...

Question, has anyone looked into any monetary ties between Harry Thomas and the New Town developer? Seems like he is essentially a lobbiest for the New Town group.

Anonymous said...

Using http://ocf.dc.gov I determined:

Over the past two years, Sang Choi gave $1000 to Harry Thomas, $1000 to Jack Evans, $1000 to Kwame Brown, and $500 to Marion Barry.

Over the past two years, lobbyist John Ray gave $500 to Vincent Gray, $500 to Harry Thomas, $500 to Tommy Wells, $1000 to Mendelson, $1000 to Kwame Brown, and $500 to Marion Barry.

Vincent Orange, who wrote the original legislation, received $9000 from Sang Choi and $2000 from John Ray.

Keep in mind these are figures don't include other contributions made "under the radar" using other lobbyists, business names, family members, etc.

8th and El said...

So, it's bad that the development doesn't include the side of the area that doesn't want it, or are there other parties (landowners and tenants, not NIMBYers)that are dissenting, but not getting heard? I'm really tring to understand this, but I don't really know what's going on...

Anonymous said...

The original legislation was written without consideration for anyone but New Town. This included the majority landowners (J Street, Gallaudet), tenants, and vendors. A. Litteri would be history.

Nobody really wants this to go through except (a) New Town (b) Council members that have been "influenced" and (c) denizens who are buying the bags of bullshit they are selling.

Unknown said...

This will sound silly. But I don't care about the process. I'd rather they E Domain it all if that's what's needed. I can't figure out how GU has any land over there at all they are for sake of transparency a public (Federal) school, why do they have land holdings. Their land should just be given to the District or bought by the District from the Department of ED, the body that really controls GU's land. As for J Street, E Domain it. Lets be done with it.

The idea of getting lost in minutia is cute but it's been a long time. Let's get something done. All the name calling, posturing, class warfare, racial stuff - yes below the surface, really doesn't move the ball forward.


We need to get something done. This is just insane, not worth it at all.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, lets just take something that isn't ours. Be done with it. I don't like it, so I'll elect people who don't mind stealing it. Calling it blighted is the biggest load of crap I've ever heard. You can't even find parking over there during the day...at night, sure it's desolate, but so is every area around a federal building...are those places blighted too?

Eminent domain should be a tool of absolute last resort, not a way to develop something you dislike.

Anonymous said...

I personally consider your house blighted, Robby, and I'm all for taking it under eminent domain. Don't think it's blighted? Tough. Don't like it? Tough.

Some people here are wedded to the false dichotomy that the choice is between the New Town "proposal" and nothing at all. That isn't the case. I'm not aware of *anyone* here who's posted their opinions against the New Town proposal who disagrees with the desire to do something in the area of the Market. Don't like the Market as-is? OK. But that's a separate issue from why, of all the things one might do in that area, New Town is the one to go with.

Anonymous said...

It's all too typical on FroTro that the folks who render the most aggressive opinions have the least command of the issues, players, personalities, and underlying intentions. And personal motives in mind rather than those of the greater community. South Riding types.

Unknown said...

Chris & Tim :

Lets see this the familiar Frozen Tropics stuff: sarcasm, personal attacks, and then calling the person dumb. I really don't expect too much from this blog or the people that read or troll it. But the USSC has spoken. Yes if its blighted a government, not you Chris, can take it and turn it in to something of better value to the citizens. If you don't like it, move to another country w/o ED.

That said, yes it is harsh. And should be reserved as a last option, but after years of trying to get that place to clean up we are at the end. I am 29 years old, its been a crap hole all of my life. Beyond me it was a crap hole most of my father's life.
I guess I could continue down to my grand mother, but why. The point is that its the poster child of blight.

Sure there's beauty in a car wreck, but I don't want to see one for 30 plus years.

This name calling and wonkish grandstanding is not moving the ball forward. Bold action and leadership is required. I am saddened that people on either side of this or on the multiple sides of this giving in to ego and self interest.

Wells Vs Thomas, GU vs John Ray.

It's silly, citizens loose. The Blight continues.

Like the RBS ads, less talk more action.

Hillman said...

It does appear (to a casual observer like me) that there are some shenanigans going on in the process here.

And the whole eminent domain thing strikes me as being unfair at worst and too casually applied at best.

But I have yet to see anyone actually come up with a cohesive alternative plan for the site.

As for comparing this site to Federal buildings after dark...... I've been through the Market after dark. It's got a fair amount of thuggery and crime going on. Is is the worst spot in town? No. But it's got a lot more casual drug dealing and such than any Federal building I can think of offhand.

8th and El said...

I never thought I would say this, but I'm starting to miss poo poo

Anonymous said...

8th and el:

you asked for it, you got it! i had been taking a break from posting here because of all of my negative feedback, and the lack of understanding of my (somewhat) dark/funky sense of "humor".

FLORIDA MARKET

it's a craphole, aside from a few interesting and bargain joints.

as for real estate in the Nation's Capitol, you could beg for more.

times square in NY is a good example.

it used to be filthy, and shady - like this so called "wonderful market".

this market used to be housed where the Archives building now stands. they razed it, built some great destinations, and relocated it to where it is now.

who's to say it shouldn't move? given the great stature of our city, it makes sense to make better use of the land.

BUT, there are those that bitch and moan about dislocating the market. about changing the status quo. it's all politics. most folks that moved from the hood don't even shop there. they're embarassed to be seen around the area. i don't blame them.

i got blood on my car on a saturday afternoon, when to folks were fighting about some flea market purchase. i stopped, one hit the other, and BOOM! the hood of my car was splattered with blood.

like hillman, i drive through there at night.

i doubt any other of the "odd hour" litteri's go there outside of their awkward hours.

if you do, keep your windows rolled up.

and don't call me a burbanite. i grew up in sao paulo brasil. i can smell shady and dangerous within a mile.

yes, the place has to be redeveloped.

it has to be done right, but....

who's right?

commisioners that are still in school? old time residents? newcomers? black? white? latino? asian? investors?

it's all up in the air.

at the end of the day, as much as you may hate it, lobbies work.

it's not illegal to lobby, and unless you get involved, you'll have to live with what transpires.

i like to think that the redevelopment should be focused. not challenged. NO ONE has alternative plans.

and trust me, the current plans are better than what we have now.

yes, we need long term vision for how the area should be "long term successful". but if it's not, let's raze it and do it over again.

i just want theft and rape and prostitution and drug dealing to go away, so i can think about having kids and STAYING in the area for several more decades.

i'm going out on a limb here, but long time residents (mostly black) want the place changed. it's the new white people that want to say they live in an edgy neighborhood that want the market to stay the same. the same dorks that bitch about the crime.

call me poo poo, or call me stupid.

let's have some CHANGE!

(oh, and thanks for lamenting my absence. i needed a reason to get back in to the futile dialogue on frozentropics...)

Unknown said...

Well Said.

Alan Page said...

i don't necessarily agree with every poo poo post, but poo poo always has colorful language! powerful posting there.

as for the market, there are multiple issues at play. i have driven through at night and *not* seen the crime described, which means it's not some type of permanent open air crime conglomerate.

and i *have* seen heavy support of the market on the weekends. rarely have reason to be driving by it on the weekday though

lastly, real estate prices in the district are MUCH higher than they probably were during this earlier relocation poo poo mentions. they could not afford to buy a similarly sized plot of land anywhere in the district, i'd wager, especially since wholesalers require egress for large trucks (meaning any new location would have to be near a major thoroughfare for trucks to come in and go out easily, without disturbing residential areas, etc)

what industrial area is left that is reasonably priced in dc? the area near where the stadium is now USED to be until a stadium got built there.

Unknown said...

How ever it's done, something needs to be done.

Anonymous said...

The crime there is mythological. Days gone by, a different story. Now, the numbers don't add up. There's nobody there to rob. There's nothing there to steal. Drug dealers making transactions? Probably. It's everywhere. The place is dead at night.

Gally is working with a developer that has some impressive work, most notably the Pearl District in Portland, OR. Very sensible, incorporating all elements rather than the self interests of the developer. What New Town has in mind is garbage. Development for the sake of development. We have plenty of that.

Unknown said...

So, besides tearing the process down, what do people want to do? How will the quality of life improve? I hear allot about the process. I get talked to, even talked down to about not being overly concerned about the process.

The point of this shouldn't be to tear people down. We are trying, I hope, to lift a neglected part of the city up. This should be about enlightening the District, not empire building. Be that a real empire or a rhetorical/political one.

What is the cost of being right, and who pays it? Market or not, I have the means to drive to Dulles Town Center. I have the mobility to get out of the ghetto and see the bright shinning world out side of the monthly murders and the endless parade of drunks, drugs, pimps, prostitutes, thugs, and other assorted crooks.

Don't the people w/o the mobility deserve something decent near by? Don't the children need to see success?

I don't care about the process; I do care about the divisiveness.


It needs to end.

We have got to work together, or nothing will happen.