A look at what's going on in Trinidad, on H Street, and in the larger area north of Capitol Hill.
Wednesday, December 16, 2009
WTOP: DC Streetcars Arrive in Baltimore
WTOP reports that three streetcars purchased by the District arrived at the Port of Baltimore last weekend. It lends a bit of reality to what sometimes can seem like mere speculation of the years.
26 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Where does the overhead wire issue stand? I understand that a change in the DC Code is required to use overhead wires but, overhead wires are, in fact, the only way these can be powered, right? I ask because they purchased and had delivered cars which require "the overhead power cable to be installed." I recall previously that there was talk of powering them in a different manner. Those days are over, right? Overhead lines or no streetcar? -stella
Inked, are you sure these cars are going to Anacostia? H Street line is going first now and I had heard that the cars were expected to end up here, but were likely to be altered so they could operate with and without wires in different parts of the city.
H Street Great Street, I'm not sure where they are going. The bit about the overhead power made me thing Anacostia, but I know there has been some discussion about which line might happen first.
What I don't understand is, and help me if I am off base here, some of the Amtrak and commuter trains that run into Union Station operate off overhead power lines and the tracks are in the location of the Old City aren't they? Call me kooky but those are overhead power lines in the Old City if I have ever seen them if that is the case!
Pretty sure these are headed to H. DDOT must know something the rest of us don't about the overhead wire issue. They are talking about speeding up the process...
I still favor having the streetcars powered by teams of Clydesdales. Very green. Feed them oats. Produce manure. Maybe that's what that Google Maps guy was trying to advocate.
I have another logistical question. Will the train run up and back on one track? Or will it there be a turnaround? I live on 3rd and H, and notice that the track just ends at 3rd street. Will it just end there, and then turn around? Or will the build another track going west to east? I don't see how they can create a turn. It looks like it will just stop there, and then go reverse on the same track. I hope this makes sense. Does anyone have any info on how this will work.
Left turn lane issue discussed here: http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/08/implementing-streetcars-demands-consideration-of-the-way-traffic-works/
That does not answer my question. Again, as of now there is a single track that runs in the east to west lanes. Will that be the only track, and the trains will just go back on the same track? Or will there be a turnaround somewhere, and tracks will be laid West to East? If so, where would the train's make the turn? I don;t see how either possibility would work.
jro - The north side tracks are in place for a portion. They are working on the center then the other side will happen. They are working from the ends toward the middle. The Benning Road end is finished. There was a community meeting some weeks ago where DDOT explain that they are still working out the issues of power, maintenance, turn-around and other connections. It was to start building it now and figure it out while it is being built. I first thought that was stupid, but then again, they are building and improving now not some time latter. There was talk of wanting it to connect into Union Station to then connect with K Street for the K Street line.
I don't think there is any line crossing with the tracks being planned, so the stopping and going will be on one side until it connects elsewhere.
While I generally agree with your assessment that all DC agencies don't know their asses from a hole in the ground; the process of starting prior to working out all the details is a time-honored negotiating tactic.
This project would have been bogged down for years as the Capitol Hill Historical Nazis and other NIMBYs held everything up. So you go ahead and start and get to a point where bowing to their nonsensical demands really illustrates how stupid they are. Public Opinion swiftly turns your way when folks realize that all the time and money spent to date will go to waste over an seemingly minor point. Some will point to the stupidity of starting before having a complete plan... but most will rally behind getting it done.
Why do you think Congress routinely allocates money just for planning, or design of projects? Gets the people bubbling and then they tell their detractors "well, do you want to waste the X million we have already spent."
That being said... I find the entire project idiotic.
Idiotic or not, the project has led to economic growth. The H St Revitalization Movement needed the idea of a street car to get businesses to realize opportunity.
Agreed that the CHRS is attacking like a bunch of weiners. Instead of installing overhead wires, would they prefer the return of boarded up windows and 60% vacant retail space?
I like the look of overhead wires, and I like the sound of not having to retrofit existing streetcars and rails to run on surface power.
What is historic anyway? History is created as of we speak. When will the ugly Taco Bell buildings be designated as historic? Who said overhead wires are not historic? They were there before we were born. If you don't like the look why don't you decorate the wires with balloons and stringers!!
The other thing about the "historic" designation is that the idea was to prevent overhead wires from blocking the view of the Capitol and its environs. Considering we've got a big huge bridge blocking H st NE from the rest, that really shouldn't be an issue. H St Connection is more an eyesore.
As a fan of the street cars (and yes, I'm talking the street cars, not the cable cars) of San Francisco, I'm cheering this on...
During the crime walk last week I was able to talk to Tommy Wells for about 15 min about the street car plan. He said a couple of things that were news to me. First, he said all of the funding for the street car line has been acquired (not sure if he was talking about the Anacostia and H Street lines or the entire 3 phases). Secondly, he said that during Phase I the H street line will connect to Union and will be operating solely on H and Benning. During Phase II and III DDOT would be working to connect the H st line to Union but would somehow also run it down K st to Gtown. As for Phase I, he said that he had seen a very preliminary drawing of a huge hole being cut in the hopscotch bridge to have the street car connect to Union. I question the feasibility of this.
Not sure if someone answered this, but yes, there will be tracks laid on the south side of H st which will run east. The tracks already being laid on the north side of H, which you mentioned, will run west.
It would be great if the city provided some feedback of what is actually being done. All DDOT shows are contractor status reports. I don't need to see pictures of holes in the ground. I need accurate timelines of when and where these streetcars are going. Developers are in the dark as to what the eff is going on..
This may be of interest to a few of us. There will be a Public Hearing about the H Street Development on Jan 20th.
I don't know how to create a 'link' for you to jump to the site so you have to past the url, but the main information is listed.
Council of the District of Columbia Notice of Public Hearing 1350 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Washington, DC 20004
Chairman Linda W. Cropp Announces a Public Hearing By the Committee of the Whole on PR 15-580, H Street NE Strategic Development Plan Approval Resolution of 2003 Tuesday, January 20, 2004, 2 pm Council Chamber The John A. Wilson Building 1350 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Thanks for the substantive info. If DDOT is planning to have the streetcar go into Union Station this is a great route change that will mean WAY more economic benefit to H Street over the long haul. Union Station will be a true intermodal hub and H Street will no longer be substantially cut off from tourist traffic.
I'm sure we'll be getting a lot of boo-bird comments about how this is a bad idea -- but, honestly, this is the smartest route when you consider how it will DIRECTLY connect H Street to all those people in Union Station and the surrounding area (lets face it -- very few tourists in the station would want to truck out to the hopscotch bridge and wait at a windblown trolley stop so they could ride down to H Street). Very happy with this development if in fact it is being planned!
26 comments:
Where does the overhead wire issue stand? I understand that a change in the DC Code is required to use overhead wires but, overhead wires are, in fact, the only way these can be powered, right? I ask because they purchased and had delivered cars which require "the overhead power cable to be installed." I recall previously that there was talk of powering them in a different manner. Those days are over, right? Overhead lines or no streetcar?
-stella
Stella,
these cars will likely go for the Anacostia project, which doesn't have the same wire issue.
Inked, are you sure these cars are going to Anacostia? H Street line is going first now and I had heard that the cars were expected to end up here, but were likely to be altered so they could operate with and without wires in different parts of the city.
H Street Great Street,
I'm not sure where they are going. The bit about the overhead power made me thing Anacostia, but I know there has been some discussion about which line might happen first.
What I don't understand is, and help me if I am off base here, some of the Amtrak and commuter trains that run into Union Station operate off overhead power lines and the tracks are in the location of the Old City aren't they? Call me kooky but those are overhead power lines in the Old City if I have ever seen them if that is the case!
Pretty sure these are headed to H. DDOT must know something the rest of us don't about the overhead wire issue. They are talking about speeding up the process...
Good point about the train wires in and out of Union Station.
I've also got lotsa overhead wires in the alley behind the house.
Agree that DDOT must know something we don't. I like H-street, but hardly "monumental" views here.
good point about the overhead wires outside of your house!
fenty said that h street was going to be the first to get cars.
but then again, fenty may not be "FENTY" in the near future...
I still favor having the streetcars powered by teams of Clydesdales. Very green. Feed them oats. Produce manure. Maybe that's what that Google Maps guy was trying to advocate.
I have another logistical question. Will the train run up and back on one track? Or will it there be a turnaround? I live on 3rd and H, and notice that the track just ends at 3rd street. Will it just end there, and then turn around? Or will the build another track going west to east? I don't see how they can create a turn. It looks like it will just stop there, and then go reverse on the same track. I hope this makes sense. Does anyone have any info on how this will work.
Left turn lane issue discussed here: http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/2009/12/08/implementing-streetcars-demands-consideration-of-the-way-traffic-works/
That does not answer my question. Again, as of now there is a single track that runs in the east to west lanes. Will that be the only track, and the trains will just go back on the same track? Or will there be a turnaround somewhere, and tracks will be laid West to East? If so, where would the train's make the turn? I don;t see how either possibility would work.
jro -
The north side tracks are in place for a portion. They are working on the center then the other side will happen. They are working from the ends toward the middle. The Benning Road end is finished.
There was a community meeting some weeks ago where DDOT explain that they are still working out the issues of power, maintenance, turn-around and other connections. It was to start building it now and figure it out while it is being built. I first thought that was stupid, but then again, they are building and improving now not some time latter. There was talk of wanting it to connect into Union Station to then connect with K Street for the K Street line.
I don't think there is any line crossing with the tracks being planned, so the stopping and going will be on one side until it connects elsewhere.
The streetcar runs to Union Station, stops and goes back to Benning? What good is the street car if it doesn't connect down K St to Gtown?
And they're figuring out to run the cars after they laid the track?
What a bunch of amateurs!
At Anon 9:51,
While I generally agree with your assessment that all DC agencies don't know their asses from a hole in the ground; the process of starting prior to working out all the details is a time-honored negotiating tactic.
This project would have been bogged down for years as the Capitol Hill Historical Nazis and other NIMBYs held everything up. So you go ahead and start and get to a point where bowing to their nonsensical demands really illustrates how stupid they are. Public Opinion swiftly turns your way when folks realize that all the time and money spent to date will go to waste over an seemingly minor point. Some will point to the stupidity of starting before having a complete plan... but most will rally behind getting it done.
Why do you think Congress routinely allocates money just for planning, or design of projects? Gets the people bubbling and then they tell their detractors "well, do you want to waste the X million we have already spent."
That being said... I find the entire project idiotic.
Idiotic or not, the project has led to economic growth. The H St Revitalization Movement needed the idea of a street car to get businesses to realize opportunity.
Agreed that the CHRS is attacking like a bunch of weiners. Instead of installing overhead wires, would they prefer the return of boarded up windows and 60% vacant retail space?
I like the look of overhead wires, and I like the sound of not having to retrofit existing streetcars and rails to run on surface power.
What is historic anyway? History is created as of we speak. When will the ugly Taco Bell buildings be designated as historic? Who said overhead wires are not historic? They were there before we were born. If you don't like the look why don't you decorate the wires with balloons and stringers!!
The other thing about the "historic" designation is that the idea was to prevent overhead wires from blocking the view of the Capitol and its environs. Considering we've got a big huge bridge blocking H st NE from the rest, that really shouldn't be an issue. H St Connection is more an eyesore.
As a fan of the street cars (and yes, I'm talking the street cars, not the cable cars) of San Francisco, I'm cheering this on...
Anon @ 9:51,
During the crime walk last week I was able to talk to Tommy Wells for about 15 min about the street car plan. He said a couple of things that were news to me. First, he said all of the funding for the street car line has been acquired (not sure if he was talking about the Anacostia and H Street lines or the entire 3 phases). Secondly, he said that during Phase I the H street line will connect to Union and will be operating solely on H and Benning. During Phase II and III DDOT would be working to connect the H st line to Union but would somehow also run it down K st to Gtown. As for Phase I, he said that he had seen a very preliminary drawing of a huge hole being cut in the hopscotch bridge to have the street car connect to Union. I question the feasibility of this.
Not sure if someone answered this, but yes, there will be tracks laid on the south side of H st which will run east. The tracks already being laid on the north side of H, which you mentioned, will run west.
Thanks, Jordan.
It would be great if the city provided some feedback of what is actually being done. All DDOT shows are contractor status reports. I don't need to see pictures of holes in the ground. I need accurate timelines of when and where these streetcars are going. Developers are in the dark as to what the eff is going on..
This may be of interest to a few of us. There will be a Public Hearing about the H Street Development on Jan 20th.
I don't know how to create a 'link' for you to jump to the site so you have to past the url, but the main information is listed.
Council of the District of Columbia
Notice of Public Hearing
1350 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, Washington, DC 20004
Chairman Linda W. Cropp
Announces a Public Hearing
By the Committee of the Whole on
PR 15-580, H Street NE Strategic Development Plan
Approval Resolution of 2003
Tuesday, January 20, 2004, 2 pm
Council Chamber
The John A. Wilson Building
1350 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
http://planning.dc.gov/planning/cwp/view,a,1285,q,589501,pm,1.asp
Thanks for posting, Derek. Let me hop into my DeLorean and gun it to 88. I'll be sure to tell Cropp to not waste her time running for Mayor.
Maybe we all could at least refrain from making an extra effort to be jerks in the comments?
C'mon, that last "Back to the Future" comment was hilarious. I'm just pissed I didn't think of it first.
>> he said that he had seen a very preliminary drawing of a huge hole being cut in the hopscotch bridge to have the street car connect to Union.
I guess we are going to be the new bridge and tunnel crowd.
Jordan,
Thanks for the substantive info.
If DDOT is planning to have the streetcar go into Union Station this is a great route change that will mean WAY more economic benefit to H Street over the long haul. Union Station will be a true intermodal hub and H Street will no longer be substantially cut off from tourist traffic.
I'm sure we'll be getting a lot of boo-bird comments about how this is a bad idea -- but, honestly, this is the smartest route when you consider how it will DIRECTLY connect H Street to all those people in Union Station and the surrounding area (lets face it -- very few tourists in the station would want to truck out to the hopscotch bridge and wait at a windblown trolley stop so they could ride down to H Street). Very happy with this development if in fact it is being planned!
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