Steuart Development, which owns a lot at 3rd and H just got $5 million tax break to help it build a mixed use (retail/restaurants and apartments/condos) development. The lot's been vacant for a long time. At one point it was slated to house a large gas station. In recent memory there has been talk of various grocery stores. At one point Harris Teeter signed a letter or intent, but then pulled out in favor of a site in NoMA. Most recently things have been moving slowly as the market downturn has taken its toll. This tax incentive is big news, and was pushed forward by Ward 6 Councilmember Tommy Wells. The Examiner reports. So does the Business Journal.
Office of Planning
96 comments:
The plans are for a large grocery store with an entrance at 3rd/H and an additional several thousand feet of retail at the corner of 4th/H.
They are expecting to break ground this year, as soon as they finalize the lease with the grocery tenant. The grocery is a part of their approval, and they definitely will not move forward with any other type of retail tenant. It WILL be a grocery store.
Did I hear something about that grocery store being a Whole Foods?
*ducks*
Seriously though, that is great news!
Is there any hope for a Trader Joe's? What do we have to do to start the campaign?
Not a chance on a Trader Joe's. It's a 35,000 sq ft space, and TJ's are less than half that. The developer is in advanced negotiations now, and Tony Richardson (the ANC for the area) has said that they specifically don't want any neighborhood lobbying right now.
I think they've already convinced a really great tenant that this neighborhood will support them, and now it's just a matter of their final, sensitive financial details.
That said, there are a lot of other ideal spots for a TJ's in NoMA and in the middle blocks of H Street. I know I'm sick of trekking all the way across town to Foggy Bottom!
I would be highly skeptical of a grocery store tenant 3 blocks away from an existing harris teeter and 6 blocks from a safeway.
if it isn't TJ's, and it isn't HT, and it sure won't be safeway or giant, and it seems small for a whole foods, it either has to be a shoppers (kind of doubt that) or some other store that isn't currently in DC.
bloom?
dcjaded,
where are those stores you speak of?
if it it grocery store, it should be a Whole Foods. There is a Safeway at the other end of H, and they carry organic items, but not the kind of selection as whole foods carries. if the space is gonna be something mediocre, then we don't need to waste that space. we could maybe petition that safeway to carry more organic stuff as an alternative, but I don't know how much progress we can achieve with corporations.
I would rather see a skate station in that space than another mediocre grocery.
Can I hope for a year round indoor farmer's market/co-op with a Trader Joes on the side?
3 stories sounds awfully small for that lot. I'm surprised they wouldn't go (a little) bigger.
@Dave B - they may be referring to the Safeway at City Vista
I would be really happy with a Wegmans. A Bloom? Uhmmmm....I could go for that too. What is wrong with turning to Murry's and encouraging them to provide more items that certain people in the neighborhood wants?
to Dave B: There will be a harris teeter on 1st and M NE, and there is a safeway on L and 5th NW.
Yes! Organic Market or MOM (My organic mkt) would be a decent fill-in on H Street. As for Murray's they do respond (a bit) to requests for certain products. When I bought my house in 2000 they didn't carry any fresh produce or named brand products. Now they have a few things but they are still WAY to heavy on the processed food and they still don't carry skim milk or real butter!
Donna
That 5 mil$$$$ would be better spent on forgiving the taxes for existing small businesses on H. Why the hell is DC giving $$$ to a big oil now development company??? ... oh yeah,and we will get a Yes! store that hires no one from the community.
Not only does Yes! not hire from this community, they will not accept your personal check, like the Yes! stores do in NW.
Derek, Great suggestion on the Wegmans - I second that!!!
Honestly I wouldnt mind if they didnt hire from the community. I think that was the downfall of the Hechinger Mall Safeway and Brentwood Giant. The term "customer service" is a foreign concept in those two stores.
who writes personal checks these days??
Anon 4:41,
Small businesses should be excited about this. This is 240k sf of residential and 45k of grocer. This development equates to approximately 200 new families and thousands more in foot traffic.
Why does everyone think that small businesses are the solution? I agree it's nice that some early adopters took a risk in setting up shop on H Street, but it's going to take large scale developers (many whom bought of plots 5-10 years ago) to actually make H Street a "great street."
I live in Drew Ronneberg's ANC district, not Tony Richardson's, but if what the Anon poster said is true, it's disappointing to me that Richardson has discouraged the community from giving any kind of input. Also, is the footprint large enough for a Wegman's or a Bloom?
Jaime,
they already have a tenant, and are in negotiations. They don't want people calling for a particular store to derail the negotiations.
inked: they have a grocery store lined up already, or are they not even sharing that level of information?
My understanding is that they are talking to a particular store.
As someone noted, the space is too big for Trader Joe's. It's also clearly not a Wegman's, whose stores run "80000 to 140000 square feet." With their space needs, it's unlikely that they will ever open a store anywhere in DC, and certainly not around here. (There is a Wegman's being built at Woodmore Towne Centre - love that British spelling - in Landover, about a 20 minute drive from H St.)
Yes! also tends to have much smaller spaces, around 5000-10,000 square feet.
Safeway has 3 stores within a couple of miles.
The area seems a bit underdeveloped for a Whole Foods, but I could be wrong.
So it could be a new chain, like Bloom or Shopper's, or Giant.
Aldi, Aldi!!!
Whole Foods. Confirmed.
Damn shame they can't incorporate one additional floor for a gym. The ability to work out then pick up groceries before going home would seem to be a perfect urban fit.
If it were me (not that anyone asked)..... it'd make sense to make it a one stop shopping thing.....
First floor grocery.
Second floor gym.
Residential on top of that.
Top floor restaurants, with great street views and setbacks for roof decks / outdoor dining.
And underground parking.
Then you'd have yourself quite the destination building.
Wow. I mean WOW! I don't want to get myself too excited about all this rumoring going on....but if it is a Whole Foods I will be doing Arsenio Hall fist pumps up and down H St. for the next week!!
Just look at what WF's did for 14th and P. As I recall, that area really didn't take off until WF's signed on.
You tack on a streetcar and, man, we are taking off...
Did I mention I'm trying not to get excited?
And please, please can we have some interesting architecture? Senate Square next door is an example of a design with a lot of thought put into it.
We're going to have this marquee building for decades to come. And with them getting tax $$ as part of the deal, I'm hoping we get some really outstanding architecture.
Yes, I know, it's a dream rarely realized in DC.
Inked, did you mean to say 3 story bldg? Every article I have read says this is going to be around 10 stories tall? Thanks in advance for clarifying.
Bad news for some of you, if it is a Whole Foods, they do hire from the community,so you will have to move to Virginia.
It's five storey residential atop ground floor retail.
Jordan,
I could have sworn I saw three story somewhere. Maybe not.
Giant or Whole foods are the only two grocers that would make sense. I can't image HT opening another location so close to its other stores, same goes for Safeway. TJs is too small, Wegman's too big. And I don't think Shoppers, Bloom or the other discount places target urban locations like this.
WF has been scouting locations outside of northwest for a while and had been rumored to be looking at a lot off M st. near barracks row a year or so ago. It would be nice to take some pressure off the P st. location, which is just overwhelmed with customers, many (like me) who are driving over from NE and SE. Putting a WF in the capital hill area will be a success. There is a lot of pent up demand in this area for an upscale grocer like WF and a lot disposable income to support it.
either way, the sepculation will be fun.
Yes, confirmed: it will be 6 stories total with 5 stories of residential condos/apts atop ground level retail.
I would post the link but its obscenely long. Just google "Steuart Development and H Street NE".
I'd be beside myself if it is a whole foods. I should clarify the statement I made earlier. It is not solely the hiring of locals, but the hiring of locals without enforcing similar standards of customer service and appearance found in other stores. I'd bet money that if there were some Corporate Safeway consequences for the lack of upkeep in the Hechenger Safeway then there wouldnt be any problems.
How 'bout Piggly Wiggly?
dangereous delicious pies opens March 12th!!!!!
http://www.steuart.com/SICwebindex2010.v5_files/Page1103.htm
Just two cents: I had a few business meetings out in Virginia land last year, and stopped in at a Bloom.
It's basically a shit-box with rotten produce and gray meat, and a "deli" with bologna sandwiches on white bread, but with nice signage and packaging.
Granted, the Bloom I went to was in PWC, and pretty much everything (except for the 800,000,000 sq ft Wegmans) sucks out there.
Read up, kiddies:
http://planning.dc.gov/planning/frames.asp?doc=/planning/lib/planning/developmentreview/ward_6_zc_cases/06-01b_-_3rd_and_h_ne_-_op_public_hearing_report.pdf
oboe: i went to a bloom out in leesburg. it was much much nicer than what you describe. i'm a vegetarian, so i didn't pay attention to the meat, but the vegetables looked pretty good there.
i suppose it's just like safeway and giant. if you're in the right neighborhood, they can be fantastic. if you're not, good luck.
it would be really great if the "really great tenant" Steuart has hooked is indeed Whole Foods. I think Capitol Hill could definitely support one. And a WF would raise the profile of H st. tremendously.
I went to a Bloom once down near Richmond in Mechanicsville and was pretty unimpressed. It's just another clone of Safeway or Shoppers with a more spartan feel, not sure what the hype is about them. A Whole Foods would be huge for the image and continued development of H St. and pretty much all the northeast communities that straddle the corridor. Though I'm skeptical that a gigantic ``upscale'' corporation like them is willing to make that gamble on a still redeveloping community, especially considering that Whole Foods practically had to be dragged kicking and screaming to open up on P St. which anyone who lived in that area at the time knew was a no-brainer. I remember WF amusingly mumbling something about low median income stats. Talk about lazy market research. I was told by a manager a few years ago that based on sales per square foot, the P St. store at the time was their most successful opening nationwide. Whether or not a location in NE could duplicate that remains to be seen. I would love to have a whole foods, but I'm not holding my breath,
Seems a little close to P Street for a WF ... but then again it is also close to 2 safeways, 2 harris teeters, and the giant @ home depot.
And the grocery store is getting a 10-year tax break - which the city CFO apparently said DC couldn't afford, btw, but hey it's only (somebody else's) money.
Having two-thirds as many parking spaces as apartments will create a parking nightmare for people on nearby streets.
Grocery stores care about 2 things:
Parking and Signage Visibility
Charles,
Like most new apt. buildings, not every apt./condo will have a parking space assigned to it. To the contrary, the additional parking proposed by the development may actually help the parking situation by adding some public parking (i.e., for whatever grocery ends up signing on).
Also, your contention that this location is somehow too close to P St. really doesn't make any sense. P St. is a pain to get to given the downtown traffic. I know quite a few people on Cap Hill who love WF's but loathe having to truck over to P St.
Like myself, I think many people on the Hill would rather go to WF's than Harris Teeter or Safeway if we had our druthers. Further, I think all of these new businesses opening along H St. (and doing well for the most part) clearly shows that there is a lot of demand for higher end products/services that is not being fully met in the area right now.
You tack that onto the streetcar, streetscaping and relatively good property values -- why wouldn't a WF want to come to H? This area would be another P St. goldmine for them...
JJ, I said it seems kind of close BUT ... the other chains have stores closer, and the tax break for the grocery store will affect the math. Don't get me wrong, I hope it is a WF or Trader Joe's.
I don't see any way this will make parking better in the surrounding blocks. Even if one-third of the apartments have no cars, others will likely have multiple cars. But no point in speculating, I guess we'll see how parking is a few years from now.
I wonder who the 7 people were that protected this being approved?
This tax break for out-of-town developers and grocery store owners is a disgrace.
The local small business owners on H Street would kill for a comparable deal. They've struggled to build their businesses and their customer bases through tough times. And their property taxes kept climbing.
Just as things were looking up, the construction is hurting their businesses, and the best Tommy Wells can do is let them pay their tax bills later. Well, there may not be a "later" if the businesses fail during the disruption from the streetscape work. They aren't making the money to put aside for the tax bills which are still increasing.
"Working capital" doesn't help if you're hanging on for dear life.
Hundreds of jobs at established local businesses are at stake. The city needs to wake up and stop favoring the Fat Cats.
@Anonymous:
You don't think a major grocery store would attract significant foot traffic from Capitol Hill and bring people to the independent restaurants when they come grocery shopping?
For the record, Bloom is not actually a "new" grocery store. A few years ago, Food Lion was facing bankruptcy so they decided to split their stores up into "Bloom" and "Bottom Dollar", with Bloom being the middle class Safeway like store, and Bottom Dollar competing with Aldi on the low end.
Most Bloom stores are former Food Lions that were given a light remodel.
Be sure to check the recall list before you go shopping at Bloom!
http://www.foodlion.com/FoodSafety/Recalls
Anon 1:12.
Have you ever been out on H-Street? Try getting a table at Souk, H Street Country Club, Dr. Granville's or Sticky Rice any day besides Sunday and Monday. I can tell you, that unless you show up before 6 or after 10 you are going to have wait quite a while. So I am not sure about these struggles you are referring to. I am sure that the construction is annoying and might be hurting business a bit, but based on the traffic in these establishments I am sure they can all afford to pay their taxes. Not only will they be the biggest benefactors when H street is turned into one of the best streets in the city, but now they have a temperary tax defferment and a free shuttle for their patrons courtesy of my tax dollars.
Just to be clear I support the shuttle, and the tax deferment, and love all the small restaurants I just named, but I am a little over all the complaining about the street. I mean this is DC, did any of us expect the street to be done in 3 months?
Just look at what WF's did for 14th and P. As I recall, that area really didn't take off until WF's signed on.
------------------------------
well, a similar logic might be that dc real estate didn't take off until the 9-11 attacks.
there was more to 14th and p than whole foods. a whole lot of planning and development and collective neighborhood action and a smart developer made all that happen. h street doesn't have this kind of organization. hell, no where else in dc, except maybe columbia heights ( and that took nearly 20 years of action) has that type of cohesion and activism.
anyway, look at the whole foods in tenley town. that area sucks. whole foods did nothing to improve that area outside of its own isles.
now, im not dissing whole foods, but one store doesn't really inspire the growth we saw at 14th and u.
Bigman - I dont get the reference to 9/11 and DC real estate?
Also, I dont think the argument is that Whole Foods alone will transform H Street, but rather that the collective restaurants and stores in the area will transform H Street with a big boost from WF. With WF coming, it may encourage other big box stores to come - imagine if we could get Target in that shopping strip where Rite Aid is...
I am not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but IF a WF does show up at 3rd & H I will go shopping there only once in a great while and probably only buy certain items and not in large quantities. Solely because I don't have a disposable income like most people seem to have around here. WF is expensive. It is great that the whole store is dedicated to organic products (some have gotten into question as if it really is and why is it imported from China). Yet, it is very expensive to shop there. I always have gotten a sticker shock when I shop at WF.
That being said, I am not against a WF showing up. Also, as it was stated earlier, it is not confirmed who will or is committed to that location.
Derek-
That is the beauty of this area. I and most others will take advantage of having WF right next door, and you can just buy a few things there, but get everything else at Murray's. Everyone wins.
It's not any of the grocers mentioned before. It's going to be "The Fresh Grocer"--a chain primarily based in Delaware and Philly that's been looking to expand into the DC region.
As for the viability of Whole Foods, there are MANY similarities between this site and P St...
Abdo project across the street;
estabilished/emerging neighborhoods that would be serviced (Dupont/Logan vs. Cap. Hill/NoMa East);
retail corridor under revitalization (14th St vs. H St)
and others as well
...but I see Whole Foods playing hardball and/or not truly believing in the area's deographic profile...even 5 years from now.
(I'm not Anon 3:48 above this comment)
I haven't heard anything about The Fresh Grocer coming in, and this would be smaller than their other stores.
However, there was a mention of them in the Washington Business Journal six months ago, that they were looking at Howard U's new development, so they are interested in DC.
http://washington.bizjournals.com/washington/blog/breaking_ground/2009/08/fresh_grocer_eyeing_dc.html
Let me put this whole thing to rest, as I have been keeping my eye on these two squares for many, many years. My apologies if some of what I have to say has already been mentioned.
The Planned Unit/Urban Development (PUD) calls for a large grocery store, several floors of residences (including affordable housing), and below ground parking to support the retail and residential properties. You can find very detailed information about the various zoning/adjustment transactions here: http://search.dcoz.dc.gov (suggest "Steuart" or "06-01" as search terms).
The developer Steuart Development Company has not said a word to anyone about the future tenant, especially after being burned by NoMa for stealing Harris Teeter. They have not told anyone anything other than being in negotiations...and that is all you will hear. Anyone who tells you otherwise is not credible. Period.
Bloom = Food Lion = ghetto
To jro at 3/6, 10:00 AM
Your personal observations on 4 new restaurants in the 1200 and 1300 blocks of H Street for a few hours in the evening are not relevant to the majority of businesses on H Street. Even those restaurants can't survive with 4 hours of customers for 5 days each week. Without the construction, there were people in those and other places from the time they opened until well past midnight every night. Business is down. TonyT from the Pug reported a drop of 25% in his overall gross on FT. Others have not publicly disclosed their numbers but from conversations with some of the owners, there have been decreases in volume.
The problem is more extreme for the retail and service businesses that are open during the day. You may not shop on H Street, but before the construction, many more people did than do now.
There are barbers and hairdressers, manicurists, a hardware store, plumbing supply, upholstery, dry cleaners, clothing stores, dollar stores, convenience and grocery stores, beauty supply shops, medical equipment sales, drug stores, a flower shop, coffee shops, liquor stores, places that used to do a strong lunch business, exercise and yoga studios, art galleries, business offices, tattoo parlors, tax preparation offices, electronics sales, cellular phone stores, shoe stores, banks, and many more.
I shop at many of these places. Do you?
Foot traffic and business are down because of the construction. Old customers have gone elsewhere because they have no place to park and navigating the broken sidewalks and jersey barriers is difficult.
Although the construction has harmed businesses, their property taxes have continued to rise along with other fees, taxes, and mandates from the City. Just delaying the due date on taxes does not help if the money is not coming in.
We cannot afford to lose these long term businesses. Do you want a beautiful new street lines with "Going out of Business" or "Closed" signs on vacant buildings? The kiss of death to any commercial district.
DCJaded wrote:
I would be highly skeptical of a grocery store tenant 3 blocks away from an existing Harris Teeter and 6 blocks from a Safeway.
In point of fact, Trader Joe's almost always builds stores within a few blocks of high-volume conventional supermarkets.
Margaret: If you recall, customers that used to frequent the stores you mentioned used to create such a chaos on H-street. I have witnessed double parking, even triple parking on H-street during rush hour. That's just plain rude with complete disregard to inconvenience caused by one's selfish nature so that they don't have to walk even a single block. You will never see that kind of behavior from customers in Georgetown, Dupont circle and such. I don't really understand the need to be able to park like a Rock star. Like walking a few blocks is really going to hurt you. Before the advent of automobiles, planes and other conveniences people used to live happily too, why are we getting so lazy as to complain about parking as if it's such a big deal. People from a lot of countries do not even have luxury to own a car and still go about doing their day to day business for years on.
Does anyone *really* know if a lease agreement is close to getting done?
I hate getting my hopes up about developments that appear to be on the cusp of starting construction but then drag on with nothing happening for years.
Call me crazy, but you'd think DC floating 7% of the total cost of the project would be enough to seal the deal and fire up the 'dozers...but then again this is DC we're living in (where no good idea or good effort goes unpunished).
Does anyone *really* know if a lease agreement is close to getting done?
Guy Steuart appeared before the Zoning Commission on 30 November 2009 and stated the following (http://dcoz.dc.gov/trans/091130zc.pdf):
"We have a signed letter of intent with another full-service grocer that proposes to lease the entire grocery footprint. And we are in detailed lease negotiations and construction negotiations to finalize that arrangement. But while I cannot name names, I can characterize our discussions with this grocer as much further advanced than the aborted effort two-plus years ago, giving me much greater confidence that this development can proceed and succeed...if that schedule were to hold, we will be projecting a grand opening in the spring of
14 2012."
...but I see Whole Foods playing hardball and/or not truly believing in the area's deographic profile...even 5 years from now.
You evidently do not remember that when the P Street Whole Foods underwent construction, realtors were describing the area as "Dupont East" because it was a shithole (and still is somewhat of a shithole). Whole Foods has never been overly fearful of demographics.
For those hoping for a Trader Joe's or smaller grocer, this testimony by Guy Steuart dilutes such notions:
"We studied alternatives such as breaking up the 3000-square foot grocery and a couple of the retail bays, and though not optimal from a retailer's perspective, the thought was we might be able to kick start the development were we able to secure sufficient interest from multiple tenants complementing the smaller grocery. We met with several smaller grocers and received genuine interest while we continued to pursue but were rebuffed by other larger ones. And for better or for worse before critical milestones could be met with those that demonstrated interest, the real estate and finance market cratered, thus slowing the progress."
Yet, it is very expensive to shop there. I always have gotten a sticker shock when I shop at WF.
Harris Teeter is expensive too! Don't believe me? Compare prices in their produce department. And toiletries. Only exception seems to be frozen food.
A Whole Foods would be just what the neighborhood needs to give it that extra push towards transformation. People would flock to the neighborhood if we had a Whole Foods. I personally get tired of trekking to the Whole Foods on P Street to shop. I hope Whole Foods realizes how well they would do at this location. They would capture the Capital Hill market as well as commuters.
Margaret-
I am not just talking about 4 bars. I am talking abut older establishments like Argonaut, and Rock and Roll Hotel. Every night I go there they are busy. As far as the coffee houses and yoga studios, to answer your question I go to both. In regards to the yoga studio, it is so crowded, the only time you can get a space is during work hours and even then it is packed, and I go to Sidamo all the time, and it seems like things are as strong as ever. I also go to Taylor's for dinner, and at lunch, and despite the fact that I have to park 3 whole blocks away sometimes during lunch, I don't complain that I have to walk the 5 minutes to get my sandwich..
As far as the wig stores, the pawn shops, the check cashing stores, and the 30 shoe stores, well to be quite honest, I wish they wold all close up anyway. But that is just me being an a$$.
My major point must have gone over your head a bit. It is this. While I agree that the construction is not good for business, I believe most of H street is still thriving like they never have, and once the construction is done, and the streetcar is in place, the biggest winners will be those of us who live near H street, and those business's who are located on them.
So yes I hate that H street is a mess. Yes I hate that I get woken up way earlier than I would like from the construction. I also hate that I have to drive down G street just to avoid my car from being destroyed. Yet, at the end of the day, I am thankful for DC, that they are turning H street into a destination street we can all finally be proud of.
Margaret wrote: "There are barbers and hairdressers, manicurists, a hardware store, plumbing supply, upholstery, dry cleaners, clothing stores, dollar stores, convenience and grocery stores, beauty supply shops, medical equipment sales, drug stores, a flower shop, coffee shops, liquor stores, places that used to do a strong lunch business, exercise and yoga studios, art galleries, business offices, tattoo parlors, tax preparation offices, electronics sales, cellular phone stores, shoe stores, banks, and many more."
I could do without over half of your list. I would like to see only the following survive: hardware stores, dry cleaners, grocery stores, drug stores, in-service dining, flower shops, coffee shops, exercise and yoga studios, art galleries, banks.
The other retail serves a different demographic than me. If they fail to utilize those services, then the businesses should leave. Why would you keep a wig store afloat by relieving them of their taxes, even if people aren't buying wigs??
lol... lets just call a spade a spade. The last couple of commenters want H street to be gentrified, as do I. Lets get rid of the wig shops and check cashing places and get Target to come to H Street!
I don't get all the hate on wig shops. Especially when there are plenty of empty storefronts to fill in with your whatnot and hoo-ha. I LOVE the wig shop/cellular phone/TV repair shop and I am NOT being sarcastic. It makes me smile every time I walk or drive by it. I don't need a wig or a new cell phone or my TV fixed but one day it will be gone and I'll be sad.
In the meantime, what harm is it doing? And how can it be bad that we have businesses that serve someone other than Mr/Ms Anonymous?
Donna
I live in the area and would love to see a grocery store and additional residential units come to 3rd and H. I hope sooner rather later. Whole Foods would be awesome!
Joshua
Donna, don't you understand? If a business isn't interesting to Anon 3:23 or Anon 3:30, it should go. After all, all sunlight pours out of their asses, and the world revolves around them.
Annoyingmous:
I believe you've missed the point. I have no use for a yoga studio, flower shop, art studio, or coffee shop as I never visit these types of establishments, but I would love to have them because they attract a different clientele than the check cashing places. Call it what you want, but I would love to be able to walk down H street and feel safe walking past large groups of men which I cant do now. I hardly think that there would be a large group of men hanging outside the yoga studio cat calling women...
d.f.w.s.: you said: I hardly think that there would be a large group of men hanging outside the yoga studio cat calling women...
clearly, you've never been to yoga district in bloomingdale. they have this exact problem from time to time.
imgoph: If this is the case in Bloomingdale, I would probably find it funny more than threatening...
Call it what you want, but I would love to be able to walk down H street and feel safe walking past large groups of men which I cant do now.
Why? I would love to gain some perspective on how exactly these groups of men could jeopardize your safety. Seriously.
clearly, you've never been to yoga district in bloomingdale. they have this exact problem from time to time.
Bloomingwhere? The climate in Bloomingdale/Eckington is far different than Near Northeast. You are comparing apples and door hinges.
In my opinion people need to lower their expectations with regard to the pace of change on H Street NE.
If you take the time to do a little footwork, you will discover that almost every single vacant property on H Street is undergoing some sort of renovation, investigating the possibility of undergoing some sort of renovation, or in search of tenants/buyers. You will also discover that many properties with existing businesses (many of which you abhor) are in the process of converting to retail or restaurants. Things are changing more than meets the eye...
"Why? I would love to gain some perspective on how exactly these groups of men could jeopardize your safety. Seriously."
Off the top of my head:
Do you remember last year when that guy was beaten horribly by a bunch of guys hanging out at the corner of 13th and H? If I remember correctly, they broke his jaw on the first punch. He narrowly escaped by running back to the Rock n Roll hotel.
Also, lets not forget how that guy was shot and killed on the X2 in broad daylight a few months ago.
These are the types of people hanging out on H Street.
Do you need more perspective or is that sufficient? I'm sure I can remember more if I put some effort into it.
doesn't frequent wig shops: so you're worried about people who hang out in front of wig shops? Or, looking at the list of establishments excluded by the anon poster, you're worried about the risk from the clientele of tax preparation offices or plumbing supply stores?
And wasn't the guy killed on the X2 just leaving a funeral that he'd come to the area to go to? And wasn't he shot by someone else who came to the area for the same funeral? In other words, weren't *neither* of them "hanging out on H Street"?
Doesn't Frequent Wig Shops,
Annoyingmous is correct that the killing as the guy boarded the X2 really didn't have anything to do with people hanging out on H Street. Both the shooter/s and the victim had come here for a funeral. It was a planned and targeted killing by people who had a connection to the same neighborhood crew over in NW.
Scott (the guy who was "beaten horribly"), did get jumped by a group of guys. It was maybe 3am, and he was coming from further down the street. He did get rescued by the security from the Hotel. They did break his jaw on the first punch. Other than that he escaped alright.
Trust me, you can get jumped in many areas of DC walking alone at 3am.
Ink, I have nothing but love for you, but come on..."They did break his jaw on the first punch. Other than that he escaped alright." Seriously??
7:52,
I wasn't trying to minimize it. I was saying the beat down part was true. I was just adding the 3am bit.
I also was trying to clarify that the brutal beating didn't mean beaten until unconscious, or something like that. If someone didn't know the story (which was brutal), they might think it was far worse.
I would venture to say that in other parts of the city it would be highly likely that you could get jumped by a random group of guys at 3 AM. However, if we're talking about other populated entertainment / bar strips, it is more likely that a fight / getting jumped would probably be fueled by too much liquor. That aside, I think that far too often we measure our situation as compared to "other parts of the city" or chalk up crime to just being "city life." I think thats BS - Its almost like we should accept that law abiding citizens should be victimized by criminals simply because we live in the city. Its unacceptable whether we live in DC or Fairfax.
As for the guy who got beat up, I'm sorry if my description sounded too dramatic for the situation. Perhaps it is my sheltered suburban upbringing, but I think someone getting their jaw broken is horrible. Its not as if they just knocked him down and gave him scraped knee.
And the shooting suspect. Even if they were from NW, they were on H street and clearly felt comfortable enough in the environment to shoot someone in broad daylight. I doubt they would have tried that in other areas of the city.
Sometimes I wonder as to the immense hatred one must have for oneself to be able to inflict such excruciating pain unprovoked on a complete stranger who has done nothing wrong to you. Something to think about.
doesnt frequent wig shops,
I did say the assault was brutal, so I don't think that suggests I was comparing it to a skinned knee. But, in case someone was unfamiliar with what happened, I'd rather they not mentally finish the sentence with something like "brutally beaten"...and left for dead.
Scott was (he's since left DC for Iraq) a friend and co-worker, and I saw him about 15 minutes after he was attacked when he was still all bloody. So I'm not trying to make it sound less bad than it was. I just don't want to give people unnecessary nightmares. Ok?
The hole is getting deeper...Lets just move on to the original topic.
*i* am poster #94!
Anon 6:47: welcome to weblogs.
Not on Parker,
You are a rare bread of blog commenter -- one who actually does research and reads zoning orders and transcripts! Please get involved in your ANC, they can your help.
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