I went to Liberty Tree over the weekend. It was busy but not crazy; staff was good about updating us on the wait and the bar was a lovely place to wait. We tried a bunch of stuff. On the apps, the peppers with goat cheese were a table favorite. I enjoyed the potato fritters and calamari... the red pepper butter was awesome (frankly on both the calamari and the potato fritters!). Pizza was good and everything arrived in a reasonable amount of time. The rigatoni was a bit rich for my taste but a) it looked and smelled fantastic and b) if you like rich pasta, this is for you. I'll definitely be back and will put it on my list for decent take out pizza (my only suggestion is to put a bit more savory flavor in the sauce, it seemed a little sweet but nothing a healthy helping of crushed peppers won't fix at the table.) All in all, a great time was had by all.
I went last week with friends. The four of us split 3 pizzas, and a couple bottles of wine. Three pizza's for four people was plenty of food, and each pizza was about $9 or $10 bucks. Their clam seafood pizza was awesome, and so was their meat pizza. We ran into the chef outside as he was heading home. Nice guy, who clearly knows what he is doing. I highly recommend.
Seems risky to be prominently displaying and touting the “Liberty or Death” flag, now associated with the Tea Party movement and other radical, right-wing Republicans.
Anon 9:49 - people have used that sign/flag for lots of stuff throughout America's history, and I'm sure others will continue to do so. To take the flag down just because some tea partiers are using it would show fear - and then the terrorists would have won!
I disagree with Anon 9:49. Firstly, the theme of the the restaurant is New England fare and it is decked out in Colonial themed decorations. Secondly, the original intent of that flag was to promote unity between the colonies. It was a rallying cry for every one to unite and overcome their differences in support of a larger cause. The tea-partiers are hijacking that thought simply because the flag says "Don't tread on me."
In fact, I am upset they are using the term "tea party" at all. The original tea party was a protest against taxation without representation. If "tea-partiers", who almost all have voting representation in Congress, are so against the idea of taxation without representation, then why aren't they vocally supporting DC voting rights?
Just saying it's risky that's all. Didn't say it should come down. Some people may walk in there and not be as informed as you and think they may be sypathizers of the Tea Party movement or even worse, a right-wing Republican, and choose not to come back. Just a risky symbol for a new business in a very Democratic city that's all.
We ate at Liberty Tree two weekends ago. The food was great, but I thought the vibe in the restaurant left a bit to be desired. The seating feels extremely cramped. It wasn't even busy in there, but I felt like people were on top of me. The white table cloths and music seemed somewhat out of place. To be honest, the vibe kind of made me sleepy. It felt like one of those restaurants your parents used to take you to when you were a kid that you absolutely hated.
thread hijack: I've missed the info about what is coming to the southwest corner of H Street & 14th (directly across H St from Ohio restaurant). It's quite a rebuild going on there. Anyone know?...
Seems risky to be prominently displaying and touting the “Liberty or Death” flag, now associated with the Tea Party movement and other radical, right-wing Republicans.
Are you for real? What exactly do you predict happening as a result of the historic flag being displayed? Do you think neighbors will revolt and decide not to visit? Or that militias from West Virginia will detonate C4 in the kitchen? Or that NBC4 will show up and report that the restaurant is really a secret meeting location for clandestine dissidents?
Very possible, so why take the risk as a new business. Would you patronize the place if they had an old south rebel flag hanging on the wall. What about a gay rainbow flag out front? I'm just saying, symbols matter, and this could easily be interpreted as a hostile symbol and sympathetic to the anti governement, Don't Tread on Me, movement.
I post this out of fear of a thread hijack, but I am going to hope you didn't mean to infer the gay rainbow flag - a symbol intended for unity of all people- to be a deterrent to people patronizing a business? Careful where you tread.
Love Liberty Tree and if people chose not to enjoy the food of a restaurant based on an assumption without doing their research or even asking the owners what their intention is, then let them find somewhere else to dine.
Gay rainbow flag! Is that a flag that likes bright colors and only gets it on with other flags of bright color? I, for one, only spend my hard earned money at restaurants sporting drab heterosexual flags. Can't think of any such places right this second, but they'll come to me.
Nothing especially rave-worthy but nonetheless a very solid meal. Stuffed peppers were great, arugula salad was good, pizza was pizza.
Now, I can get real picky about the pizza, but honestly theres been lots of talk about bringing pizza to H street and I'm just glad to have a sit-down slice.
The best part about the Liberty Tree to me is having a regular, non-themed restaurant option that I can count on getting a table at.
If "tea-partiers", who almost all have voting representation in Congress, are so against the idea of taxation without representation, then why aren't they vocally supporting DC voting rights?
My hubby and I went there two weeks ago and loved everything about it. We both had the Calamari for appetizer which was decent and their individual pizza yummy. We will definitely be back soon....
Sometimes a flag is just a flag, but why risk the offense of new patrons if the flag you are displaying has become associated with something offensive?
Liberty Tree is what I've been craving on H street. It's not fine dining, but it's a great place to take a date. I wish it were bigger. It's a nice addition and a bit more grown up than some of the other food places.
Been twice was impressed both times. The menus needs more NE food and less pizza. Or maybe specials or something.
wait i don't understand do they have tea parties at happy hour. i would have gone for some herbal tea instead of whisky when i had my excellent dinner there. tonyt
As a right wing overtaxed underpaid terrorist member of the tea party I enjoy the liberty or death flags.
You liberals need to grow up, where was your moral outrage when the lefties were depicting Bush as hitler.
For you to carry youre asinine political sensibilities to the decor of a resturant is childish in the extreme. (and remember not everyone who lives or works on h street is a left wing nutjob)
I can't believe I'm even dignifying this with a response, but the depictions of Bush as Hitler came almost exclusivelyfrom the ANSWER asstards that mainstream Dems and liberals went out of their way to denounce.
I'm not seeing the Republicans denounce the fringe nutcase anti-Obama stuff. If anything, they are encouraging it.
My fiance and I ate there a few weeks ago; the owner talked with us and was super nice, down to earth and friendly. Being from New England, I felt at home there! Its a place my parents would like to go to and diversifies the H Street restaurant options; right now there are a lot of trendy/ethnic places (which i LOVE!) but its also good to have something simply "american/pizza/burger-esque" in the neighborhood. Keep it going H street!!! wohoo!!! :)
A) I am a little surprised at the suggestion that liberals on H Street would allow partisan discrimination to affect the businesses they support.
B) If you are a restaurant/retail owner on H---I can assure you, no conservative on H Street cares about your political affiliation, sexual identity, gender, age, etc.
C) I am a conservative that lives on H and (I have attended two Tea Party Rallies) and I wish that the liberals would appreciate a more diverse community here on H. Not everyone on H Street is a liberal so please have a more open minded attitude and accept (rather than intimidate) the diversity that live within these blocks.
D) Hillman-- How short is your memory? Recall the Code Pink protestors (we love our neighbors) that were given tickets to the capitol by D's only to disrupt proceedings? Don't tell me D's didn’t support the anti-war protesters, especially during the 06 election cycle. (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=133893) Bottom line, there is plenty of squalor on both sides of the isle which I think is good for our democracy not a threat to it.
Observation of the "Give me liberty or give me death" flag, was not intended to insight a Tea Party, liberal, Republican vs. Democratic discussion. I was simply stating that such a devisive symbol (now mostly associated with Timothy McVeigh and the Tea Party movement) was risky for a new business owner in potentially alienating some customers, just as a Rebel flag or a Rainbow flag might be symbols that could make some feel that the business has a certain political agenda that could keep some customers away. That's all.
If the owner chooses to keep the flag up that's his right. If I'm offended by it I can choose not to go. But his choice just lost a customer - a risk he was willing to take.
Mainstream Dems denounced Code Pinks tactics once they became extreme. So much so that Code Pink members constantly complained about it.
As for conservative v liberal, I'm a pro gay rights gun loving welfare-despising balance the budget guy.
And I'd ask the Tea Party folks why it is the are so adamant about the federal government not running our lives, yet they are totally cool with the Defense of Marriage Act and federal laws against medical marijuana, both of which are huge power grabs by the Feds.
Why the double standard? Until they clear that up I have to call bullshit on their entire stated premise.
Are you kidding me? Shame on you. Not only are you intolerant but you are (apparently) easily offended. That's not a recipe for success in life, Im sorry.
Hillman- I agree its an inconsistency but the inconsistency lies in the fact that both the Left and Right are not compleltely homogeneous entities.Note that the DOMA did not pass even with an R majority (prior to 06) which I think reflects that not all those on the Right are as inconsistant as you might think. Follow? There's room on the right for you, brother!
I guess my point was that the old labels don't necessarily fit, particularly in DC.
But I have yet to have a single Tea Party supporter explain to me why they haven't taken a stand against DOMA and medical marijuana.
Or DC voting rights, for that matter.
Talk about your ultimate federal infringement....
Or where they were during the massive Bush era deficits and federal takeovers (like the prescription drug plans, which passed without a peep from the Tea Party folks).
I hope the owners keep the Liberty flag. It does not "belong" to any one party affiliation. They're clearly relating it to its Boston history and that's where it belongs. This divisive partisanship and seeing bogiemen in every corner
My husband I went for dinner at Liberty Tree last night and found the food to be good. The arugula salad with beets and goat cheese was really good. We also enjoyed the roasted cod and clam pizza. We'll certainly be making a trip back...it's worth a visit, but the interior of the restaurant is lacking and space is tight.
Hillman- Congratulations, you have met a pro-legalization Tea Partier. I work with several more.
Not sure I like the "medical" bit though. I think it's a disingenuous ruse, often tied up with anti-trade protectionism, but I guess if we're moving the ball forward.
There's a lot of diversity in the Tea Party movement. A huge number are libertarians who are all for equal treatment of gays, and an even larger number are anti-war. See the blistering attacks from the social conservatives on the Tea Party movement if you want evidence. They're freaking out because they think the right is abandoning socons.
As for taxation w/o representation, I don't think anyone outside of DC cares that much. It's just not a vote-moving issue. But the original Tea Partiers weren't looking for a Member of Parliament. They wanted an end to the tax. That's where I am. No more federal taxes for the District. Just like Puerto Rico.
They should definately keep their "Don't Tread on Me" flag - but they should also know it comes with the risk of offending people who associate the flag as a symbol of right-wing extremist. But it's his risk to take. Period. Enough said.
free shot of whisky for anyone who brings me a rainbow flag, a rebel flag, and a don't tread on me flag. we'll make an h street flag quilt. interesting historical piece in the post's op ed section on the tea party. just for perspective of course cuz no body wants actual facts to cloud their arguments. by the way the us men's soccer team fans often wave the don't tread on me flag at games. of course every one knows how gay soccer is so i guess that just makes every thing more confusing. tonyt thepug
Second on the fan club for tonyt. Jeez, I haven't seen this much sensitivity since I had to sit through "sensitivty training" in big ole bad corporate America.
"free shot of whisky for anyone who brings me a rainbow flag, a rebel flag, and a don't tread on me flag. "
Best flag ever?
The confederate battle flag, with Hank Williams Jr on one side and Merle Haggard on the other, on black velvet, hanging over the jukebox in a gay bar in Glasgow, Scotland.
Turns out they get very testy over there if you are American and you don't know the words to all country songs ever written.
"There's a lot of diversity in the Tea Party movement. A huge number are libertarians who are all for equal treatment of gays, and an even larger number are anti-war."
To some degree I'll take your word for that, as I'm certainly not out there with the grass roots Tea Party folks.
But I have yet to see any actual resources going to fight against DOMA or in favor of any other gay rights cause.
The resources I see being used are to provide free press for Sarah Palin and to fight to take the Republican Party farther to the right.
If you can provide me some real-life examples of that not being the case, I'm all ears.
But from what I can see they are sponsored by RedState, FreedomWorks, and Michelle Malkin.
Not a lot of pro gay sentiment in that crowd.
Which is ironic, because I've long thought that gays have a strong equity argument, in that as long as we aren't full citizens then why should we have to pay the same taxes as full citizens?
Cut my taxes by 1/3 and deny me gay marriage? Let's talk.
If you can provide me legit examples of real resources being given to any socially liberal causes by the Tea Party folks, it would go a long way toward balancing out what I think of them to date.
Hillman, i was doing some thinking while putting the kids to bed, and i had a moment of enlightenment which may surprise you. As i said earlier, the don't tread on me flag is very popular with the us soccer team supporters. During a speech once, jack kemp called soccer too european and too socialist. Once on the bathroom wall, someone eloquently scribbled soccer's for fags. I don't know about you, but if a politician says something, or i read something, than i belueve it to be true. That means the don't tread on me flag is really a gay, socialist banner , so by extension i can only believe the tea bag folks are gay, big government rebels. Clearly i need a hobby tonyt
I'm starting to feel like we're hijacking this thread, but it's interesting to me. As far as spending money, I can't give any examples. That's a measure of intensity, though, not preference. They get in up in the morning to fight big government, not to do anything at all about social issues. There's diversity there. But I don't think it's what gets any of them out of bed in the morning.
Here's some examples of what I'm talking about though. The huge tea party contingent booed a speaker at the Conservative Political Action Conference for his objection to a gay Republican Group this year. That would have been unthinkable even five years ago. Here's a link: http://www.mediaite.com/online/homophobic-cpac-speaker-booed-off-the-stage/
After the conference, the socons went berserk about how the right is turning libertarian: Tony Perkins from the Family Research Council and Mike Huckabee have both criticized the tea party movement for not caring about social issues. They don't, and on the issue itself there is diversity of opinion. I don't think anyone is involved for the purpose of working for gay marriage rights or eliminating don't ask don't tell (for example) because that's not what the movement is about. It's about economic issues.
As an anti-war conservative/libertarian I quit going to rallies because of all the nutjobs. Every movement has its weirdos. But the tea party movement is about spending and government intrusion. It has a more libertarian bent than anything we've seen develop substantially on the right probably ever. I wouldn't paint them with that old-school conservative brush.
...thinking again jeeezee TT... ...don't forget the Red, the Black, and the Green on that quilt of yours... ... and stick with the shots. BTW last time i was in your place i counted three pizza boxes from that Yankee Doodle place. I think we have a hit on our hands. Go H Street !
I too feel a little guilty. One of the nice things about FT is that it is mostly politics-free.
But in an effort to ruin that.....
The Tea Party actively promotes candidates that are extremely unlibertarian.
I can't count the number of candidates they are supporting that are anti-gay, anti-medical marijuana, etc.
How may Tea Party candidates are supporting repeal of DOMA or medical marijuana?
Zero, that I know of.
If they really are about a new day in politics they would call on those candidates that meet their economic criteria to also meet basic social freedoms criteria.
But they don't.
If you support and help get elected candidates that are viscerally anti-gay and seek to use the power of the federal government to make things harder for gays then you can't claim to be libertarian.
Oh, and did I mention farm subsidies? Funny how the Tea Party is silent on that big government intrusion into free market issues.
I think you may be right - there are some with libertarian or socially progressive ideas that are drawn to the Tea Party because they feel they are being ignored.
But so far they certainly are not running things in the Tea Party. If anything, their support of the Tea Party is actively promoting regressive social and utterly nonlibertarian ideas.
Just to set the record straight- The flags in my restaurant in no way represent the Tea Party Movement, they represent the actual Boston Tea Party and the group of Patriots whose motto was "No Taxation Without Representation". I figured it was a good Boston/DC tie and that the residents of DC would be able to relate. So if my flags in some way offend you I suggest you don't come to my restaurant because they are not coming down and if that's a risky business move on my part then I'm willing to roll the dice. Scott Hamilton
Jeez, I thought opening a new business on H St. was rolling the dice enough, now a snarly attitude like this over some flag. I'd focus on the comments about the pizza.
It's interesting that the initial posting that hijacked this thread said that Liberty Tree displaying the historic Gadsden flag might be "risky symbol for a new business in a very Democratic city." Does this mean that Democrats are intolerant of assumed "sympathizers" of groups that they might not agree with, "or even worse, right-wing Republicans?" Would they run in horror from a good restaurant for fear of catching political cooties?
Fear of "offending" the tens of thousands of locals and tourists who don't support the Democratic Party or Obama never seems to stop some from building shines of their own. The reason it's not "risky" is that some people are more tolerant than others. And apparently more tolerant than Anonymous who seemed to say that they're not going back to Liberty Tree because of an historic flag??? Most people just don't give a shit about this stuff.
Why not? I've been to lots of places that have displayed lots of flags. Communist Chinese flags. Soviet. FLMN. You name it. Flags mean different things to different people. Some of those flags might have been political statements, but I didn't have to sign up to eat there. The Stars and Bars means something different to many than what has been imputed to it, often for political reasons, by others. It is just decor to many, even if that may be hard for you to believe. There are many flags that are regularly displayed that people don't even recognize. If you've been to places in the Gulf South, you might well have enjoyed your meal under the Bonnie Blue Flag. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonnie_Blue_Flag It didn't give you indigestion or cause you to stomp out because no one had ever assigned political baggage to it.
Gadsden, I would say you're more enlightened then most of us and I still stand by my original statement that it is neither right or wrong to have a controversial flag hanging in your buisiness. The owner has a right to have a Confederate Flag, a Liberty or Death Flag, or the Christian Flag hanging in his establishment. But for a new business owner it is simply risky to have potentially devisive and customer alienating flag in your restaurant. That observation is completely seperate from saying it should come down. Liberty Tree should and will do whatever they want with the flag - especially as it relates to their hopefully successful business.
52 comments:
I went to Liberty Tree over the weekend. It was busy but not crazy; staff was good about updating us on the wait and the bar was a lovely place to wait. We tried a bunch of stuff. On the apps, the peppers with goat cheese were a table favorite. I enjoyed the potato fritters and calamari... the red pepper butter was awesome (frankly on both the calamari and the potato fritters!). Pizza was good and everything arrived in a reasonable amount of time. The rigatoni was a bit rich for my taste but a) it looked and smelled fantastic and b) if you like rich pasta, this is for you. I'll definitely be back and will put it on my list for decent take out pizza (my only suggestion is to put a bit more savory flavor in the sauce, it seemed a little sweet but nothing a healthy helping of crushed peppers won't fix at the table.) All in all, a great time was had by all.
I went last week with friends. The four of us split 3 pizzas, and a couple bottles of wine. Three pizza's for four people was plenty of food, and each pizza was about $9 or $10 bucks. Their clam seafood pizza was awesome, and so was their meat pizza. We ran into the chef outside as he was heading home. Nice guy, who clearly knows what he is doing. I highly recommend.
Seems risky to be prominently displaying and touting the “Liberty or Death” flag, now associated with the Tea Party movement and other radical, right-wing Republicans.
Anon 9:49 - people have used that sign/flag for lots of stuff throughout America's history, and I'm sure others will continue to do so. To take the flag down just because some tea partiers are using it would show fear - and then the terrorists would have won!
I disagree with Anon 9:49. Firstly, the theme of the the restaurant is New England fare and it is decked out in Colonial themed decorations. Secondly, the original intent of that flag was to promote unity between the colonies. It was a rallying cry for every one to unite and overcome their differences in support of a larger cause. The tea-partiers are hijacking that thought simply because the flag says "Don't tread on me."
In fact, I am upset they are using the term "tea party" at all. The original tea party was a protest against taxation without representation. If "tea-partiers", who almost all have voting representation in Congress, are so against the idea of taxation without representation, then why aren't they vocally supporting DC voting rights?
D
Just saying it's risky that's all. Didn't say it should come down. Some people may walk in there and not be as informed as you and think they may be sypathizers of the Tea Party movement or even worse, a right-wing Republican, and choose not to come back. Just a risky symbol for a new business in a very Democratic city that's all.
We ate at Liberty Tree two weekends ago. The food was great, but I thought the vibe in the restaurant left a bit to be desired. The seating feels extremely cramped. It wasn't even busy in there, but I felt like people were on top of me. The white table cloths and music seemed somewhat out of place. To be honest, the vibe kind of made me sleepy. It felt like one of those restaurants your parents used to take you to when you were a kid that you absolutely hated.
thread hijack:
I've missed the info about what is coming to the southwest corner of H Street & 14th (directly across H St from Ohio restaurant). It's quite a rebuild going on there. Anyone know?...
Anon 10:28,
that will be Angelico La Pizzaria. You can find a link in the sidebar.
It will do Liberty Tree some good to have some competition in the pizza department. I found theirs lacking.
- Pizza Connoisseur
I almost upperdecked their toilet in the men's room when I saw the picture on the wall.
I held back, since I'm not about to stoop down to the Red Sox level.
The red sox rule! I love Liberty Tree. It makes me feel like I'm home in Boston.
Seems risky to be prominently displaying and touting the “Liberty or Death” flag, now associated with the Tea Party movement and other radical, right-wing Republicans.
Are you for real? What exactly do you predict happening as a result of the historic flag being displayed? Do you think neighbors will revolt and decide not to visit? Or that militias from West Virginia will detonate C4 in the kitchen? Or that NBC4 will show up and report that the restaurant is really a secret meeting location for clandestine dissidents?
Very possible, so why take the risk as a new business. Would you patronize the place if they had an old south rebel flag hanging on the wall. What about a gay rainbow flag out front? I'm just saying, symbols matter, and this could easily be interpreted as a hostile symbol and sympathetic to the anti governement, Don't Tread on Me, movement.
Anon 11:24 -
I post this out of fear of a thread hijack, but I am going to hope you didn't mean to infer the gay rainbow flag - a symbol intended for unity of all people- to be a deterrent to people patronizing a business? Careful where you tread.
Love Liberty Tree and if people chose not to enjoy the food of a restaurant based on an assumption without doing their research or even asking the owners what their intention is, then let them find somewhere else to dine.
Gay rainbow flag! Is that a flag that likes bright colors and only gets it on with other flags of bright color? I, for one, only spend my hard earned money at restaurants sporting drab heterosexual flags. Can't think of any such places right this second, but they'll come to me.
We had lunch last Saturday - thumbs up.
Nothing especially rave-worthy but nonetheless a very solid meal. Stuffed peppers were great, arugula salad was good, pizza was pizza.
Now, I can get real picky about the pizza, but honestly theres been lots of talk about bringing pizza to H street and I'm just glad to have a sit-down slice.
The best part about the Liberty Tree to me is having a regular, non-themed restaurant option that I can count on getting a table at.
If "tea-partiers", who almost all have voting representation in Congress, are so against the idea of taxation without representation, then why aren't they vocally supporting DC voting rights?
Black folk?
:)
My hubby and I went there two weeks ago and loved everything about it. We both had the Calamari for appetizer which was decent and their individual pizza yummy. We will definitely be back soon....
Sometimes a flag is just a flag, sometimes pizza is just pizza -- really good pizza is the view of this conservative.
Sometimes a flag is just a flag, but why risk the offense of new patrons if the flag you are displaying has become associated with something offensive?
Jeeez, let the flag thing rest already. You've made your point. We get it. We don't have to agree, and you don't have to repeat it until we DO agree.
Slow day at the office?
Liberty Tree is what I've been craving on H street. It's not fine dining, but it's a great place to take a date. I wish it were bigger. It's a nice addition and a bit more grown up than some of the other food places.
Been twice was impressed both times. The menus needs more NE food and less pizza. Or maybe specials or something.
wait i don't understand do they have tea parties at happy hour. i would have gone for some herbal tea instead of whisky when i had my excellent dinner there.
tonyt
As a right wing overtaxed underpaid terrorist member of the tea party I enjoy the liberty or death flags.
You liberals need to grow up, where was your moral outrage when the lefties were depicting Bush as hitler.
For you to carry youre asinine political sensibilities to the decor of a resturant is childish in the extreme. (and remember not everyone who lives or works on h street is a left wing nutjob)
I can't believe I'm even dignifying this with a response, but the depictions of Bush as Hitler came almost exclusivelyfrom the ANSWER asstards that mainstream Dems and liberals went out of their way to denounce.
I'm not seeing the Republicans denounce the fringe nutcase anti-Obama stuff. If anything, they are encouraging it.
That, in a nutshell, is the difference.
My fiance and I ate there a few weeks ago; the owner talked with us and was super nice, down to earth and friendly. Being from New England, I felt at home there! Its a place my parents would like to go to and diversifies the H Street restaurant options; right now there are a lot of trendy/ethnic places (which i LOVE!) but its also good to have something simply "american/pizza/burger-esque" in the neighborhood. Keep it going H street!!! wohoo!!! :)
Hillman and Others-
A) I am a little surprised at the suggestion that liberals on H Street would allow partisan discrimination to affect the businesses they support.
B) If you are a restaurant/retail owner on H---I can assure you, no conservative on H Street cares about your political affiliation, sexual identity, gender, age, etc.
C) I am a conservative that lives on H and (I have attended two Tea Party Rallies) and I wish that the liberals would appreciate a more diverse community here on H. Not everyone on H Street is a liberal so please have a more open minded attitude and accept (rather than intimidate) the diversity that live within these blocks.
D) Hillman-- How short is your memory? Recall the Code Pink protestors (we love our neighbors) that were given tickets to the capitol by D's only to disrupt proceedings? Don't tell me D's didn’t support the anti-war protesters, especially during the 06 election cycle. (http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=133893)
Bottom line, there is plenty of squalor on both sides of the isle which I think is good for our democracy not a threat to it.
Observation of the "Give me liberty or give me death" flag, was not intended to insight a Tea Party, liberal, Republican vs. Democratic discussion. I was simply stating that such a devisive symbol (now mostly associated with Timothy McVeigh and the Tea Party movement) was risky for a new business owner in potentially alienating some customers, just as a Rebel flag or a Rainbow flag might be symbols that could make some feel that the business has a certain political agenda that could keep some customers away. That's all.
If the owner chooses to keep the flag up that's his right. If I'm offended by it I can choose not to go. But his choice just lost a customer - a risk he was willing to take.
Mainstream Dems denounced Code Pinks tactics once they became extreme. So much so that Code Pink members constantly complained about it.
As for conservative v liberal, I'm a pro gay rights gun loving welfare-despising balance the budget guy.
And I'd ask the Tea Party folks why it is the are so adamant about the federal government not running our lives, yet they are totally cool with the Defense of Marriage Act and federal laws against medical marijuana, both of which are huge power grabs by the Feds.
Why the double standard? Until they clear that up I have to call bullshit on their entire stated premise.
Are you kidding me? Shame on you. Not only are you intolerant but you are (apparently) easily offended. That's not a recipe for success in life, Im sorry.
Hillman- I agree its an inconsistency but the inconsistency lies in the fact that both the Left and Right are not compleltely homogeneous entities.Note that the DOMA did not pass even with an R majority (prior to 06) which I think reflects that not all those on the Right are as inconsistant as you might think. Follow? There's room on the right for you, brother!
I guess my point was that the old labels don't necessarily fit, particularly in DC.
But I have yet to have a single Tea Party supporter explain to me why they haven't taken a stand against DOMA and medical marijuana.
Or DC voting rights, for that matter.
Talk about your ultimate federal infringement....
Or where they were during the massive Bush era deficits and federal takeovers (like the prescription drug plans, which passed without a peep from the Tea Party folks).
I hope the owners keep the Liberty flag. It does not "belong" to any one party affiliation. They're clearly relating it to its Boston history and that's where it belongs. This divisive partisanship and seeing bogiemen in every corner
Also, what Hillman said.
My husband I went for dinner at Liberty Tree last night and found the food to be good. The arugula salad with beets and goat cheese was really good. We also enjoyed the roasted cod and clam pizza. We'll certainly be making a trip back...it's worth a visit, but the interior of the restaurant is lacking and space is tight.
Hillman- Congratulations, you have met a pro-legalization Tea Partier. I work with several more.
Not sure I like the "medical" bit though. I think it's a disingenuous ruse, often tied up with anti-trade protectionism, but I guess if we're moving the ball forward.
There's a lot of diversity in the Tea Party movement. A huge number are libertarians who are all for equal treatment of gays, and an even larger number are anti-war. See the blistering attacks from the social conservatives on the Tea Party movement if you want evidence. They're freaking out because they think the right is abandoning socons.
As for taxation w/o representation, I don't think anyone outside of DC cares that much. It's just not a vote-moving issue. But the original Tea Partiers weren't looking for a Member of Parliament. They wanted an end to the tax. That's where I am. No more federal taxes for the District. Just like Puerto Rico.
They should definately keep their "Don't Tread on Me" flag - but they should also know it comes with the risk of offending people who associate the flag as a symbol of right-wing extremist. But it's his risk to take. Period. Enough said.
free shot of whisky for anyone who brings me a rainbow flag, a rebel flag, and a don't tread on me flag. we'll make an h street flag quilt. interesting historical piece in the post's op ed section on the tea party. just for perspective of course cuz no body wants actual facts to cloud their arguments. by the way the us men's soccer team fans often wave the don't tread on me flag at games. of course every one knows how gay soccer is so i guess that just makes every thing more confusing.
tonyt
thepug
I am going to start a fan club for tonyt
Second on the fan club for tonyt. Jeez, I haven't seen this much sensitivity since I had to sit through "sensitivty training" in big ole bad corporate America.
"free shot of whisky for anyone who brings me a rainbow flag, a rebel flag, and a don't tread on me flag. "
Best flag ever?
The confederate battle flag, with Hank Williams Jr on one side and Merle Haggard on the other, on black velvet, hanging over the jukebox in a gay bar in Glasgow, Scotland.
Turns out they get very testy over there if you are American and you don't know the words to all country songs ever written.
"There's a lot of diversity in the Tea Party movement. A huge number are libertarians who are all for equal treatment of gays, and an even larger number are anti-war."
To some degree I'll take your word for that, as I'm certainly not out there with the grass roots Tea Party folks.
But I have yet to see any actual resources going to fight against DOMA or in favor of any other gay rights cause.
The resources I see being used are to provide free press for Sarah Palin and to fight to take the Republican Party farther to the right.
If you can provide me some real-life examples of that not being the case, I'm all ears.
But from what I can see they are sponsored by RedState, FreedomWorks, and Michelle Malkin.
Not a lot of pro gay sentiment in that crowd.
Which is ironic, because I've long thought that gays have a strong equity argument, in that as long as we aren't full citizens then why should we have to pay the same taxes as full citizens?
Cut my taxes by 1/3 and deny me gay marriage? Let's talk.
If you can provide me legit examples of real resources being given to any socially liberal causes by the Tea Party folks, it would go a long way toward balancing out what I think of them to date.
Hillman, i was doing some thinking while putting the kids to bed, and i had a moment of enlightenment which may surprise you. As i said earlier, the don't tread on me flag is very popular with the us soccer team supporters. During a speech once, jack kemp called soccer too european and too socialist. Once on the bathroom wall, someone eloquently scribbled soccer's for fags. I don't know about you, but if a politician says something, or i read something, than i belueve it to be true. That means the don't tread on me flag is really a gay, socialist banner , so by extension i can only believe the tea bag folks are gay, big government rebels.
Clearly i need a hobby
tonyt
Hillman-
I'm starting to feel like we're hijacking this thread, but it's interesting to me. As far as spending money, I can't give any examples. That's a measure of intensity, though, not preference. They get in up in the morning to fight big government, not to do anything at all about social issues. There's diversity there. But I don't think it's what gets any of them out of bed in the morning.
Here's some examples of what I'm talking about though. The huge tea party contingent booed a speaker at the Conservative Political Action Conference for his objection to a gay Republican Group this year. That would have been unthinkable even five years ago. Here's a link:
http://www.mediaite.com/online/homophobic-cpac-speaker-booed-off-the-stage/
After the conference, the socons went berserk about how the right is turning libertarian: Tony Perkins from the Family Research Council and Mike Huckabee have both criticized the tea party movement for not caring about social issues. They don't, and on the issue itself there is diversity of opinion. I don't think anyone is involved for the purpose of working for gay marriage rights or eliminating don't ask don't tell (for example) because that's not what the movement is about. It's about economic issues.
As an anti-war conservative/libertarian I quit going to rallies because of all the nutjobs. Every movement has its weirdos. But the tea party movement is about spending and government intrusion. It has a more libertarian bent than anything we've seen develop substantially on the right probably ever. I wouldn't paint them with that old-school conservative brush.
...thinking again jeeezee TT... ...don't forget the Red, the Black, and the Green on that quilt of yours... ... and stick with the shots. BTW last time i was in your place i counted three pizza boxes from that Yankee Doodle place. I think we have a hit on our hands. Go H Street !
I too feel a little guilty. One of the nice things about FT is that it is mostly politics-free.
But in an effort to ruin that.....
The Tea Party actively promotes candidates that are extremely unlibertarian.
I can't count the number of candidates they are supporting that are anti-gay, anti-medical marijuana, etc.
How may Tea Party candidates are supporting repeal of DOMA or medical marijuana?
Zero, that I know of.
If they really are about a new day in politics they would call on those candidates that meet their economic criteria to also meet basic social freedoms criteria.
But they don't.
If you support and help get elected candidates that are viscerally anti-gay and seek to use the power of the federal government to make things harder for gays then you can't claim to be libertarian.
Oh, and did I mention farm subsidies? Funny how the Tea Party is silent on that big government intrusion into free market issues.
I think you may be right - there are some with libertarian or socially progressive ideas that are drawn to the Tea Party because they feel they are being ignored.
But so far they certainly are not running things in the Tea Party. If anything, their support of the Tea Party is actively promoting regressive social and utterly nonlibertarian ideas.
Just to set the record straight-
The flags in my restaurant in no way represent the Tea Party Movement, they represent the actual Boston Tea Party and the group of Patriots whose motto was "No Taxation Without Representation". I figured it was a good Boston/DC tie and that the residents of DC would be able to relate. So if my flags in some way offend you I suggest you don't come to my restaurant because they are not coming down and if that's a risky business move on my part then I'm willing to roll the dice. Scott Hamilton
Jeez, I thought opening a new business on H St. was rolling the dice enough, now a snarly attitude like this over some flag. I'd focus on the comments about the pizza.
It's interesting that the initial posting that hijacked this thread said that Liberty Tree displaying the historic Gadsden flag might be "risky symbol for a new business in a very Democratic city."
Does this mean that Democrats are intolerant of assumed "sympathizers" of groups that they might not agree with, "or even worse, right-wing Republicans?"
Would they run in horror from a good restaurant for fear of catching political cooties?
Fear of "offending" the tens of thousands of locals and tourists who don't support the Democratic Party or Obama never seems to stop some from building shines of their own.
The reason it's not "risky" is that some people are more tolerant than others. And apparently more tolerant than Anonymous who seemed to say that they're not going back to Liberty Tree because of an historic flag???
Most people just don't give a shit about this stuff.
Gadsden, would you go to an establishment that hung a historic Confederate Flag?
Why not? I've been to lots of places that have displayed lots of flags. Communist Chinese flags. Soviet. FLMN. You name it.
Flags mean different things to different people. Some of those flags might have been political statements, but I didn't have to sign up to eat there.
The Stars and Bars means something different to many than what has been imputed to it, often for political reasons, by others. It is just decor to many, even if that may be hard for you to believe.
There are many flags that are regularly displayed that people don't even recognize. If you've been to places in the Gulf South, you might well have enjoyed your meal under the Bonnie Blue Flag. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonnie_Blue_Flag
It didn't give you indigestion or cause you to stomp out because no one had ever assigned political baggage to it.
Gadsden, I would say you're more enlightened then most of us and I still stand by my original statement that it is neither right or wrong to have a controversial flag hanging in your buisiness. The owner has a right to have a Confederate Flag, a Liberty or Death Flag, or the Christian Flag hanging in his establishment. But for a new business owner it is simply risky to have potentially devisive and customer alienating flag in your restaurant. That observation is completely seperate from saying it should come down. Liberty Tree should and will do whatever they want with the flag - especially as it relates to their hopefully successful business.
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