i live on 8th street se, in the residential corridor. so i was thunderstruck by the line in the article that said "There are plans, however, to run it down Eighth Street in Northeast and Southeast Washington..."
what does that mean for the neighborhood? how do i confirm that it will go in front of my house? do i or any of my neighbors have any say in these plans?
i'm not jazzed about overhead wires. it is one of the finer things about living in dc from my pov.
I recall going to an Office of Planning community meeting some time back and they discussed the re-introduction of the street cars on the same paths as once before with a slight change. There was talk of the 8th St. tracks and also tracks connecting H St. NE with K St. NW.
Here is a posting with a map of the proposed lines. I think the 8th st line is slated for later (i.e., it is separate from the H street line that is being pushed right now).
Anon 8:12, that is actually the same article we are discussing. I just had to make the title shorter (the Post uses multiple titles for the same story ALL the time).
I don't understand why someone that has busses running down their would object to a relatively nice quiet streetcar, but then I hear that you are trying to get rid of the busses too.
It seems like the people touting the "No one wants overhead wires" angle are the same people who tell us all to freak out when gas actually becomes more expensive than water. If you create enough fake concern, people WILL start to care eventually. Overheard wires are the least of the worries for the average DC resident.
I am missing something here. I looked the pictures of street cars from back in the days in DC from the WP article and didn't see any overhead wires. How did they run the street cars back then?
8th St. up and down is a historical streetcar line. The route still exists, it was only replaced by all of those buses. In fact, I read that it is one of the few places where there are still old rails underneath some of the asphalt.
I live on 8th St. NE and whole-heartedly support rebuilding the streetcar line in front of my house.
1. Buses (90/92) currently rumble by now every few minutes. Streetcars are a LOT quieter, smoother (less shaking), and nicer to look at. 2. The streetcar will be convenient--I look forward to just hopping on to go to U-street or down to Barracks Row or Nationals Stadium. 3. Living on a streetcar line will add value to my house. There is little doubt that living in close proximity to fixed public transport adds to property values. Yeah for me. 5. There are trees on 8th St, so the wire won't even be noticeable (contrary to what the opponents want you to think, trees and streetcar can co-exist). 4. I look forward to sitting on the porch and watching them quietly glide on by.
mmm, although I support the streetcar on 8th, I would like to point out that I am reasonably sure that streetcars would not be very quiet. In addition, streetcars have a bigger vibration impact than buses. Look at the environmental impact statement for the purple line. Its a good primer for noise and vibration impacts for buses vs. streetcar or light rail.
I'm really hoping streetcars go down 8th Street--I live 3 blocks farther east and though we love to (and do) walk everywhere, we have the hardest time getting senior citizen/older guests to walk more than 3 blocks in any direction, so have to constantly drive/cab them to/from Union Station or Eastern Market to anywhere they want to go. They've been talking about streetcars going down 8th street for a really long time--months, maybe a year. My hubby and I cheered because we knew it would make our home that much more attractive if we ever decide to move. It just makes the whole area more livable-a 3 block walk in 40-degree weather is much easier and faster than an 11-block walk.
to the person who wrote "I don't understand why someone that has buses running down their would object to a relatively nice quiet streetcar" i'd like to say this:
1. someone on this thread mentioned streetcars may replace buses. it is not at all clear to me that the buses would go away if the streetcars came, which means we may get more traffic not less - i agree with others who have noted how noisy they are (btw: i don't own a car and am a proud clean commuter, so i am not anti-bus or mass transit per-se, just anxious for someone to notice that residential parts of the city are different than commercial corridors)
2. 8th street now has two lanes for parking and two lanes for traffic. putting in a streetcar lane may be problematic for space issues - ie: + does it go up the middle of the street? + do they eliminate parking to make room? + do they cut down trees and make sidewalks/gardens smaller to make road wider to accomodate?
3. the 8th street residential corridor has one of the most beautiful mature tree canopies in the city; it creates a very nice place to walk, cool in the summertime and some limited privacy, etc. which i really enjoy - if they insist on doing a street car i'd want some assurance that they would not cut down trees - i haven't heard squat about this and find it hard to take the word of any blog commenter as sacrosanct on that point.
this topic makes me very nervous for my neighborhood. i don't feel like the government has done nearly enough to engage the community to roll out their plans and ideas. before i read that post article i had the illusion street cars were just about union station and H street.
it would be nice if DC-DOT or Tommy Wells weighed in on this thread and told us what was going on exactly.
On a related point, a lot of DC streets still have the old streetcar rails underneath the asphalt (although I doubt if they'd be useful anymore for the new streetcars). It's just cheaper to leave them there than rip them up. For example, D and F Streets NE both still have the old rails but they've been covered over.
You can see the old rails when the city repaves the streets. And even when they're not under construction, you can still usually tell. Streets with rails have several parallel cracks in the asphalt because the metal rails expand and contract at different temperatures than the asphalt. D Street is one way with one set of tracks, which means it has two parallel lines. F is two way, and has four -- two on either side of the road. I assume C Street also still has the rails but have never checked.
I apologize for being slightly off topic, but it's always interesting to see these remnants of old infrastructure hidden here on the Hill.
WRT noise, streetcars are electric vehicles so they are extremely quiet. (It's why some light rail systems include incredibly annoying and loud "bell" sounds.) ... as someone said wrt systems in Portland and elsewhere.
WRT underground wiring systems, yes in the previous DC system there were underground conduit systems. Today's safety and health laws and regulations do not allow for powering streetcar systems in the same manner.
Current technology that meets laws and regulatory requirements to power streetcars in the same fashion does not exist.
There is one type of short range underground system currently in operation in Bordeaux but it doesn't work very well.
And short range battery power works similarly in Nice.
But the range and volume of ridership doesn't allow for the use of these systems in a practical way in the DC context.
I don't understand ultracapacitor technology (high speed battery recharging). Maybe it can make sense over time. Some people are touting it as a possible technology, but it certainly isn't something in use right now.
People with huge old mansions in New Orleans live with street cars in their front yard and a handful of wires so the fact that some in DC are all up in arms seems ridiculous.
Sure I love not having a whole lot of wires but come on. Streetcars used to run in a lot of places in DC so this is "historic." Also, it supposedly messes with the vista. Please. H Street doesn't have a vista.
24 comments:
So, a hybrid system with underground power would "result in a system that might not function during weather such as we all remember from February."
Right, because streetcars with overhead wires operate real well in 2 feet of unplowed snow.
At least no one gets electrocuted.
i live on 8th street se, in the residential corridor. so i was thunderstruck by the line in the article that said "There are plans, however, to run it down Eighth Street in Northeast and Southeast Washington..."
what does that mean for the neighborhood? how do i confirm that it will go in front of my house? do i or any of my neighbors have any say in these plans?
i'm not jazzed about overhead wires. it is one of the finer things about living in dc from my pov.
I recall going to an Office of Planning community meeting some time back and they discussed the re-introduction of the street cars on the same paths as once before with a slight change. There was talk of the 8th St. tracks and also tracks connecting H St. NE with K St. NW.
Here is a posting with a map of the proposed lines. I think the 8th st line is slated for later (i.e., it is separate from the H street line that is being pushed right now).
http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post.cgi?id=3862
Anon 8:12,
that is actually the same article we are discussing. I just had to make the title shorter (the Post uses multiple titles for the same story ALL the time).
isn't there a way to set up a demo wire system so the anti-wire people can actually see what a modern streetcar wire looks like?
i also wonder how many anti-wire people even take public transit?
i respect that they love their views. and respect that they think it affects what they consider to be a true asset of dc.
but i still think that streetcars with overhead wires are more important.
I don't understand why someone that has busses running down their would object to a relatively nice quiet streetcar, but then I hear that you are trying to get rid of the busses too.
It seems like the people touting the "No one wants overhead wires" angle are the same people who tell us all to freak out when gas actually becomes more expensive than water. If you create enough fake concern, people WILL start to care eventually. Overheard wires are the least of the worries for the average DC resident.
Anonymous 11:00 said...
.... but then I hear that you are trying to get rid of the busses too.
---------
say what?
I am missing something here. I looked the pictures of street cars from back in the days in DC from the WP article and didn't see any overhead wires. How did they run the street cars back then?
8th St. up and down is a historical streetcar line. The route still exists, it was only replaced by all of those buses. In fact, I read that it is one of the few places where there are still old rails underneath some of the asphalt.
I live on 8th St. NE and whole-heartedly support rebuilding the streetcar line in front of my house.
1. Buses (90/92) currently rumble by now every few minutes. Streetcars are a LOT quieter, smoother (less shaking), and nicer to look at.
2. The streetcar will be convenient--I look forward to just hopping on to go to U-street or down to Barracks Row or Nationals Stadium.
3. Living on a streetcar line will add value to my house. There is little doubt that living in close proximity to fixed public transport adds to property values. Yeah for me.
5. There are trees on 8th St, so the wire won't even be noticeable (contrary to what the opponents want you to think, trees and streetcar can co-exist).
4. I look forward to sitting on the porch and watching them quietly glide on by.
I live off 8th st (ne) and hear those buses rattling down the street ALL the time. I would loooove for them to be replaced by something quieter!!
mmm, although I support the streetcar on 8th, I would like to point out that I am reasonably sure that streetcars would not be very quiet. In addition, streetcars have a bigger vibration impact than buses. Look at the environmental impact statement for the purple line. Its a good primer for noise and vibration impacts for buses vs. streetcar or light rail.
8th Street would be the logical street car route.
It goes directly to the Navy Yard and SE Federal Center.
It goes directly down Barracks Row.
It goes within a block of Eastern Market and would actually meet up with Eastern Market metro.
There is talk of moving that line to 11th Street. The stated reason is for revitalization of Hill East.
That's a laudable goal, but shouldn't be pursued through this development at the expense of common sense.
8th Street simply makes more sense.
Anyone that has visited or lived in Seattle,San Francisco, or Portland can tell you that streetcars are much quieter than busses.
Spoil the child, spare the rod.
I'm really hoping streetcars go down 8th Street--I live 3 blocks farther east and though we love to (and do) walk everywhere, we have the hardest time getting senior citizen/older guests to walk more than 3 blocks in any direction, so have to constantly drive/cab them to/from Union Station or Eastern Market to anywhere they want to go.
They've been talking about streetcars going down 8th street for a really long time--months, maybe a year. My hubby and I cheered because we knew it would make our home that much more attractive if we ever decide to move. It just makes the whole area more livable-a 3 block walk in 40-degree weather is much easier and faster than an 11-block walk.
to the person who wrote "I don't understand why someone that has buses running down their would object to a relatively nice quiet streetcar" i'd like to say this:
1. someone on this thread mentioned streetcars may replace buses. it is not at all clear to me that the buses would go away if the streetcars came, which means we may get more traffic not less - i agree with others who have noted how noisy they are (btw: i don't own a car and am a proud clean commuter, so i am not anti-bus or mass transit per-se, just anxious for someone to notice that residential parts of the city are different than commercial corridors)
2. 8th street now has two lanes for parking and two lanes for traffic. putting in a streetcar lane may be problematic for space issues - ie:
+ does it go up the middle of the street?
+ do they eliminate parking to make room?
+ do they cut down trees and make sidewalks/gardens smaller to make road wider to accomodate?
3. the 8th street residential corridor has one of the most beautiful mature tree canopies in the city; it creates a very nice place to walk, cool in the summertime and some limited privacy, etc. which i really enjoy - if they insist on doing a street car i'd want some assurance that they would not cut down trees - i haven't heard squat about this and find it hard to take the word of any blog commenter as sacrosanct on that point.
this topic makes me very nervous for my neighborhood. i don't feel like the government has done nearly enough to engage the community to roll out their plans and ideas. before i read that post article i had the illusion street cars were just about union station and H street.
it would be nice if DC-DOT or Tommy Wells weighed in on this thread and told us what was going on exactly.
Moot point. There is NO plan for a streetcar line down 8th Street.
On a related point, a lot of DC streets still have the old streetcar rails underneath the asphalt (although I doubt if they'd be useful anymore for the new streetcars). It's just cheaper to leave them there than rip them up. For example, D and F Streets NE both still have the old rails but they've been covered over.
You can see the old rails when the city repaves the streets. And even when they're not under construction, you can still usually tell. Streets with rails have several parallel cracks in the asphalt because the metal rails expand and contract at different temperatures than the asphalt. D Street is one way with one set of tracks, which means it has two parallel lines. F is two way, and has four -- two on either side of the road. I assume C Street also still has the rails but have never checked.
I apologize for being slightly off topic, but it's always interesting to see these remnants of old infrastructure hidden here on the Hill.
P Street is the most obvious. The cobblestone road with tracks are still there.
WRT noise, streetcars are electric vehicles so they are extremely quiet. (It's why some light rail systems include incredibly annoying and loud "bell" sounds.) ... as someone said wrt systems in Portland and elsewhere.
WRT underground wiring systems, yes in the previous DC system there were underground conduit systems. Today's safety and health laws and regulations do not allow for powering streetcar systems in the same manner.
Current technology that meets laws and regulatory requirements to power streetcars in the same fashion does not exist.
There is one type of short range underground system currently in operation in Bordeaux but it doesn't work very well.
And short range battery power works similarly in Nice.
But the range and volume of ridership doesn't allow for the use of these systems in a practical way in the DC context.
I don't understand ultracapacitor technology (high speed battery recharging). Maybe it can make sense over time. Some people are touting it as a possible technology, but it certainly isn't something in use right now.
People with huge old mansions in New Orleans live with street cars in their front yard and a handful of wires so the fact that some in DC are all up in arms seems ridiculous.
Sure I love not having a whole lot of wires but come on. Streetcars used to run in a lot of places in DC so this is "historic." Also, it supposedly messes with the vista. Please. H Street doesn't have a vista.
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