Friday, June 06, 2008
4th and H Street
I've gotten about 5 emails about this place, but this is the first chance [busy few days] I've had to write anything about it. My understanding is that they are operating as a sort of BYOB go-go spot, that caters to an all ages crowd. The event advertises itself as safe and drug free. It appears to be a peace-go. These are occasionally held around town, and sometimes at the Market Lounge. Thanks to George for locating a flyer. I'm also told there is something with much younger children going on during the day.
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160 comments:
So you mean totally illegal?
thanks for the flyer.
now i know what time i should call the cops to raid the joint.
Does anyone know if the folks at F.F.U.E.L. are still planning to turn this location into a smoothie-bar / cafe, or if that plan was abandoned?
What did I miss? Where's the illegality?
-confused
I actually inadvertantly ended up at a go-go concert at the Market Lounge with a bunch of friends (a function that we were having there sort of overlapped with it) and it was a lot of fun! It may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it is indigenous to DC. Speaking of the Market Lounge, it appears to be closed. I walked by the other day and the sign was down. Also, the place that was formerly Bud's has a bunch of wood panneling up on the facade. Anyone know what's going in there?
Probably betraying my age, but what exactly is a "go-go concert"? Admit all ages but BYOB? Can you do that in DC?
BYOB seems to be the recipe for bad behavior and little accountability. When can they cut people off for having had too much to drink if it is BYOB?
400 H Street is currently listed as a vacant property with a religious designation on the DC Tax Database. I don't understand how a vacant property can get a Certificate of Occupancy to operate a music venue. In addition, they would still need an ABRA license to have any type of alcohol on premise. It sounds like a glorified house party to me. My greatest concern with BYOB is underage drinking.
I find it odd that their directions to the event is to take the metro to Rhode Island Avenue station and then a bus. Using N.Y. Avenue station and walking would be so much faster and easier.
Maybe these are bus people?
What exactly are "bus people?"
Walking is certainly a viable option in this case (would be from Union Station, too), but telling people that there's a bus that will drop you off right outside the door makes a lot of sense to me.
why are there bus directions from rhode island, but not from georgetown?
Seriously, folks. I think it's incumbent upon us to all call the police at the time of this illegal party. We need to help set a decent precedent for the neigborhood.
Boy, this place is going to make XII look like the Cotton Club of the 1920's. I'm sure XII owner will be thrilled to have this place take the racist spotlight off of him for a while.
I tried to Google all the top names on the flyers who I assume are backers ("Beautiful Mind, Dizney Ent, and T&C Records") to try and learn more about this place, but I couldn't find anything. Maybe others will have better luck. Looks pretty shady to me.
I live a block away from this establishment and I’ve heard the same thing about it being a go-go spot. I was born and raised here, and I know that go-go is very popular, but I just don’t care for the music (and I have a broad taste in terms of music). Anyway, everytime I walked by a few weeks ago, it just happened to be after 9 p.m., and it was always bustling with people going to and from getting the place fixed up. I really hope that it will be safe and drug free. Growing up in NW, I have vivid memories of a few times when fights and shootings occurred at neighborhood events like Georgia Avenue Day.
...during go-go performances that is. There was a point where the city stopped go-go bands from performing at such events in the neighborhood.
i'm sure it will be peaceful ... until it isn't.
311 will be getting a call from me! Just what H Street needs. More misbehaving, gun carring, drug taking drunk thugs all pretending to be like Lil Wayne
What is Dizney ENT? Did someone make a slepping error?
Plain and simple - I'm for establishments that will bring more middle/upper class people to the neighborhood and against those that do the opposite. And if this place is as sketchy from a legality standpoint as it seems to be, shut it down.
Here's what I know, so y'all get learnt:
The property was once WOL, the African-American radio station that was home to the infamous Petey Greene. It changed hands a number of times and at one point became a church, hence its OTR designation as a religious institution. An official at DCRA yesterday informed me that the online assessment database (where many of you are gathering your Use Code data) is not frequently updated.
The club has two stages, one parallel to H Street and one parallel to the rear alley. The remaining space is hardwood floors, a bar parallel that sits parallel to 4th Street, a speaker system, and walls with large works of art. I highly recommend stopping by if the doors are open, the owners/promoters are very friendly and eager to show neighbors the renovations.
The club was originally supposed to host go-go but might no longer after hostility supposedly surfaced at one of its early events. I suspect go-go will return in due time, provided their substitute events (poetry slams, jazz) are successful. The club has a security apparatus that rivals many Federal buildings and has often included members of MPD. So calling the po-po on the go-go (aren't I clever?) is probably a waste of one's time.
The commissioner over in that area (Tony Richardson?) was supposedly chasing down some more information...I am sure he will share in time.
I've walked by while they were renovating, and everyone was very friendly and welcoming. They described it the same way, as a music and art venue.
As for the funky RI Ave directions, for some crazy reason WMATA has been *SLOW* to update their trip finder info, so if I ask it for Metro directions for my place at L & 4th, it says the same thing, ignoring the NY Ave stop a couple blocks away. I've emailed WMATA to no avail...
what are you people, flunkies? why do people keep putting words in for the commiss for that area? thanks but we don't need the play by play. If he's gonna respond, then he'll respond.
Give me a break - that's a whole bunch of hot air for trying to cover "bad news". How did this place get in under the radar?
Two steps forward for H, one big step back.
I said go-go because that's what the flyer advertises. I'm told the operation is BYOB, which is NOT illegal. I don't know anything about the C of O. It was not my intention to suggest any illegality, because I haven't heard anything that would indicate any.
I noticed on the flyer that that they have a different cover charge based on gender. That's probably not legal, is it?
Who knows if they even have permission to charge a cover in the first place. I know it's not easy to get permission to do that. Most bars can't even charge a cover without a permitting change to an "entertainment" license.
Well the fact that their first "event" had a "disruption" which has already led them to (at least temporarily) change the type of venue they are running, is NOT a good sign.
Let's just face it--these types of establishments cater to a crowd that seems to have extreme difficulty avoiding trouble. And I'm supposed to feel better because they are going to have metal detectors and cops around?? Why are they necessary in the first place? Do you see those types of things at The Pug, GM's, Showplace, Argonaut etc. etc.? No.
I don't care if they are able to contain their patrons while AT the establishment, I'm worried about afterwards when some of them have had some fight over a girl or some such nonsense and it spills out into the surrounding neighborhood.
Sorry but I'm simply NOT for establishments that may very well increase the flow of trouble into the neighborhood.
When someone calls themselves DIZNEY ENT you know the venue is shady!
Metal Detectors - Cops
Right there is bad news. I have never been to an establishment where that is needed. What that says is these hood rat people usually carry weapons and get into criminal misgif
to anon @ 10:56,
So, the battle of the classes continues on the frozen tropics board. in favor of things that attract middle/upper class people, but opposed to things that do not? like, say, a boxing themed bar? boxing is pretty working class. maybe we should shut down the pug?
to tom,
clubs in dc frequently charge different prices for ladies versus gents. i suppose someone could try to make a constitutional argument and sue the promoter for gender discrimination, but the relatively long history of things like 'ladies night', 'all ladies free before 10pm' etc in nightlife tend to militate against the likelihood of anyone even filing that suit. i'd like to see someone try though.
FYI:
http://www.myspace.com/2020gogo
http://www.myspace.com/tandcrecords
Soul Searcher--
Ok, so your ridiculous logical leap to banning the Pug aside, I'm not advocating class war. But put plain and simple, here are my priorities when gauging the new establishments that come into this area; how will they effect:
1) Safety
2) Comfort (from a noise/trash perspective)
3) Property values
I'm not going to apologize for preferring businesses who draw law-abiding, clean, respectful people with disposable income into this neighborhood rather than those that will rob, fight, yell and leave Rap Snacks wrappers and empty cans of Icehouse all over my yard. It is not my fault that those distinctions tend to fall along class lines in this city.
In regards to the supposed gender discrimination, I believe New Jersey recently made things like "girls drink free" or "ladies get in for $5.00 all night" illegal. As far as I know, this practice is not illegal in the District of Columbia.
In regards to the establishment of Studio 400, what exactly do you mean by it getting "in under the radar"? Other than doing some unapproved interior renovations, what protocol did the owners not follow? What chapter/verse of code is not being violated?
Fights inside, outside, and in areas surrounding clubs/bars seldom have anything to do with the composition of its patrons. Rhino, Modern, Sollys, Crush, Kellys Irish Times, Rumors, Mad Hatters, Fur, Dream/Love, 1223, etc. all have had their problems. Nation (now defunct) used to have metal detectors and friskings to prevent not only weapons but also drug paraphrenalia from entering their premises. H20 used to have them too.
Not every establishment on H Street is going to be like Local 16...
AMEN to Anon. 10:56/12:35!
And furthmore I'd like to add to SoulSearcher's comment, "in favor of things that attract middle/upper class people, but opposed to things that do not?"
YOU BET!!
To All who intend to call the po-po tonight without first checking the place out for yourself:
please pack your things and go back to Bethesda.
I'm not going to apologize for preferring businesses who draw law-abiding, clean, respectful people with disposable income into this neighborhood rather than those that will rob, fight, yell and leave Rap Snacks wrappers and empty cans of Icehouse all over my yard...
This sort of litter already exists, even without the presence of a club with a seemingly benevolent purpose. Do you live South of H Street or something?
George, you are so full of crap - and your last statement verifies that!
We all know that H St. was already full of litter (no matter what side you live one) and you can't even see/admit where something like this place is going to contribute to more crap! You must have a stake in this place or something.
People, Stop going crazy. This is probably a legimate venue. Besides, I applaud alot of security at venues... especially if they are all ages. This means that the kids inside will be safe. Go-go is great music. Unfortunately, I cant get out to see it much BECAUSE its so undergroud. I know gogo gets a bad rep. for being violent, but I would rather have a club that has GOOD security where the kids can go and be safe than other clubs that arent. Also, when you goto just about any Club in DC, you have to get frisked. Its the best way to be safe.
I have the worst neighbors in the world
DCJaded you said nothing that has helped people feel better about this place. Just to emphasize what people just read that you support:
"I applaud alot of security at venues... especially if they are all ages. This means that the kids inside will be safe."
"I know gogo gets a bad rep. for being violent,"
"when you goto just about any Club in DC, you have to get frisked. Its the best way to be safe."
DCJaded are you for real here or are you making this stuff up?
Folks now we're really beginning to see who has the best interst of H. St. in mind - SoulSearcher, DCJaded, and I wouldn't be surprised if one these anoymous psodonyms isn't Anwar.
Yes, you pay $600 for a house and you'd be concerned about people and places like this as well.
We all know that H St. was already full of litter (no matter what side you live one) and you can't even see/admit where something like this place is going to contribute to more crap! You must have a stake in this place or something.
What's this talk of H Street litter? Your original whinging was about your front yard. I pick up garbage on H Street once a week. Haven't ever met anyone out there...
Liquor stores that sell tall boys contribute more to the Icehouse cans in your yard than the all-ages go-go club opening on a street corner. Sorry friend, but this is pretty undeniable.
I don't have any stake in Studio 400, just don't have any basis to discriminate if what they are doing is well within the law and their clientelle don't seem unruly or dangerous.
Soul Searcher is probably married to a white man...Hence searching soul...
Just out of touch...Class this race that...Yall SUCK!!!!!
I don't care take my comment how you so choose too... That goes for everyone...
Alright well if they don't expect their clientele to be unruly or dangerous, why the police presence and metal detectors? Please, Mr. Townsend, let's not pretend that there isn't a world of difference between a place like that and, say, Granville Moore's.
And that was the gist of my original post (I am not ALL the anon's on here, just so you know)--I want to see MORE Granville Moore/Sticky Rice/ANM Market/Atlas/Argonaut/RR Hotels and FEWER XIIs/400 Lives.
And I don't think there is anything wrong with that.
This neighborhood is poised for some real decent change, and as a homeowner, yes I have a personal stake in seeing that happen. And it has nothing to do with race/bigotry---you can be a portugese, transexual, parapalegic midget as long as you contribute to the betterment of this neighborhood.
That question I'm afraid, 10:56, will come down to whose definition of "better". We all have different ideas of what's better and our definition is probably more similiar than how SoulSearcher and George define "better" - I could go into how I think they define "better", but no doubt I'd be branded a racist, and they'd likely be right, so I'll just let them define there own "better".
Please, Mr. Townsend, let's not pretend that there isn't a world of difference between a place like that and, say, Granville Moore's.
When did I ever make that assertion?
...midget as long as you contribute to the betterment of this neighborhood.
Other than paying taxes and tidying your yard, what do you for the betterment of the neighborhood?
That may be true 2:07, and if it is, well there isn't much more to be said between us and them.
I had originally thought the argument was about whether places like this tend to pose the sort of problems I was suggesting and that the SS's/Townsends of the world seemed to be saying that they didn't.
If they acknowledge that they do, but they simply don't care, then there isn't much you can do with that. Maybe if they get their wish, and this neighborhood goes back to being crappy, they'll pitch in together and buy my house when I decide to move.
Wow, I'm disagreeing with George Townsend in one thread and agreeing with him in this one.
Anon 10:56/2:02 wrote: And that was the gist of my original post (I am not ALL the anon's on here, just so you know)--I want to see MORE Granville Moore/Sticky Rice/ANM Market/Atlas/Argonaut/RR Hotels and FEWER XIIs/400 Lives.
What is it that you know for a fact to be true about "400 Live" that makes you so sure it'll be a negative factor in the neighborhood?
There seem to be a lot of asssumptions about what this place will be like; the only person that's posted any details, really, is George; and come on, have any of you ever been to a poetry slam? What in the world do you imagine them to be like?
Getting past everyone's favorite topics of class/race, taste great/less filling, boxers/briefs -- I'd like to ask the following of everybody on this board who lives in the neighborhood:
How many more bars/nightclubs do we want on H St.?
Joe Englert pointed out awhile ago on another post that the community needs to start thinking about limiting the number of bars/nightclubs with liquor licenses on H. Point being that if we don't limit these, H St. will turn into Adams Morgan.
I have to say that while this 400 club does not have a liquor license, it makes me think that we are bringing in too many nightclubs/bars and not enough retail and restaurants. I'm concerned that more clubs/bars we have the closer we are to Adams Morgan and the zoo that place has become. This is not a race issue, this is a community issue.
GT,
I DON'T get into fights at bars, I DON'T carry a gun, I DON'T do drugs, I DON'T stumble around drunk in the middle of the day, I DON'T drop my trash in other people's yards or community property, I DON'T stand outside my neighbor's house yelling at people across the street until 11:00pm every night....
Should I have specified that the midget can provide betterment by omission as well? If so, I'm sorry if it was confusing.
Wow, I really missed the racist, etc. comments. All this focus on public safety has really put a damper on this, I am glad you all are cool now to express yourselves.
This is really classic.
Really, it warms my heart to read people’s comments about a place they know nothing about. A place that could in fact be a go-go ministry.
I think the proper regulatory procedures should be followed, but beyond that. I am glad to have something else not so Hipster on H. Go-Go, while not my cup of tea, is a native form of music and has much a right to be on H as anything else.
Yall need to chill out, go home and watch Fear of the Black Hat, and then laugh at yourselves.
-Robby
Anon. 10:56, you must live on my block!
Agreeing with JJ, no more clubs on H, especially if it attracts the likes of XII or 400 Live. But hey, I'd be ok with another Pug or Martini Lounges.
Chris Metzler,
Fair enough---my assumption was based upon the following items:
1) They have changed from Go-Go to the "poetry slam" vibe due to a "disruption" (and I don't assume that means a power outage) at their FIRST event. And, no I don't "expect" violence at a poetry slam--I've been to a few and they were impressive--I was basing it on the clientele initially attracted, not young poets.
2) They will have a police presence there and metal detectors. That, to me, is a clear indication that one EXPECTS trouble. No one goes through that expense and hassle without reason (see: ALL other bars on H Street).
3) There seemed to be some question about the legality of the operation.
4) I'm not a fan of places that cater to a young crowd, but allow alcohol (class/race aside, those 18+ clubs are ALWAYS trouble).
So, no I'm not privy to any inside information that you all aren't and you may very well be correct that there will end up being no problem, at least in the form I worry about, from this place. And if so, I will have no problem with it.
BUT---when we are all expressing our opinions on this blog and my point was that, upon the initial impressions above, I was worried.
I DON'T get into fights at bars, I DON'T carry a gun, I DON'T do drugs, I DON'T stumble around drunk in the middle of the day, I DON'T drop my trash in other people's yards or community property, I DON'T stand outside my neighbor's house yelling at people across the street until 11:00pm every night...
So you don't do anything, then. Time for me to hit the bong and yell at my neighbors!
Anon 10:56- You should have did your research before buying in this neighborhood instead of seeing it as an opportunity to get rich off of Real Estate... Maybe you should just walk away from your home if its just that bad....
Yes, maybe we should (move). If you can't appreciate what the young middleclass gentrifiers bring to the neighborhood, then maybe we should start packing up. And what's that going to get you? If you're under 50 or so, the H St. you've always known - Crap St. But maybe that's what you want it to remain.
Are young middle class gentrifiers alright as long as they're black or do you just want the whites to leave?
What's the answer to the age old question, can blacks be considered racist? Anybody? I think its a dialog that needs to be had because its the root of a lot of H St. problems!
GT,
What would you have me DO, then, that would enable me to justify having opinions on this matter? Seriously, what level of involvement would be sufficient for me to have an opinion on whether or not a certain business is going to be good/bad for the neighborhood?
Anon 2:36 - That's pretty pathetic. I did research and found this neighborhood to be promising, with lots of new and interesting developments going on. Investment upside notwithstanding, I don't think that I should have to "move" now because I am for increasing property values and upscale business and decreasing trash and uncivilized behavior. Are you really okay with all that stuff? I mean, I'm not so naive to have thought that it wouldn't be the case for a time when I moved, but what is wrong with supporting change? ESPECIALLY of counter-productive activities like the ones I've been decrying here??
"I'm not going to apologize for preferring businesses who draw law-abiding, clean, respectful people with disposable income into this neighborhood rather than those that will rob, fight, yell and leave Rap Snacks wrappers and empty cans of Icehouse all over my yard"
sorry, uber-liberal folks, but this was worth re-posting. lol!!
Anon 10:56,
Rock and Roll Hotel is 18 and over downstairs and they serve alcohol. Black Cat events are all ages and they serve alcohol.
Inked,
Yeah and I still don't think those are a good idea. Now, they've pulled it off without incident (to my knowledge) so far, and if 400 Live does the same, then great. If I had been in this neighborhood before R&R Hotel came around and heard it was doing the 18+ idea (with alcohol), I would not have been a fan.
Again---maybe I'm wrong about this place, it has only had one event and I'm not above admitting that I'm wrong if it turn out to be a great place where young people go to have a poetry slam.
My point was only that I hear about a place like this and I'm concerned. THEN, there seemed to be a faction of people on this blog who took issue with my assertion that I support certain types of change and not others, and that confused me since I have no CLUE why someone would not want this neighborhood to improve.
And I still disagree. You can't be supportive of all the White sponsored businesses and not give a chance to the black sponsored businesses. It's all about being fair. It kills me how some people are still upset about having had a Cluck you in the nabe..Damn I remember I would drive from NW to get me some Cluck you on Fight nights...
The "older residents" that get their yards littered are just as upset and fedup as you "the new yuppie is". I'm new to the area as well and You damn right I want change- but just don't Bitch about everything that your culture does not support. You guys want more retail, do you guys even support the local foot locker? Of do you go to china town or else where and buy sneakers? I mean all you here on this board is give me this give me that- when there are plenty in the nabe that already exists that Most of you don't take advantage of.. Everything must be Hip or Chic for it to be favorable.....
Ugh I swear you guys piss me off sometimes...I'm so glad I truely know my neighbors and I'm damn happy it's none of you people...
Joe Englert said:
I spent the last week answering questions from sensationalist reporters at the Post and Times:
"How is the crime in Trinidad and Rosedale affecting the new nightlife strip on H?"
So, how will they react if something awful happens at a place like this--an unlawful, unlicensed place? We really can't afford something like this if we want to continue making the argument for sensible growth...........
Will the greater public with their mostly-negative view of our neighborhood do the research then? Will they separate the wheat from the chafe?
I had a long conversation with a Washington Post writer this week....after praising us, she of course said, "But what are you going to do about the high crime?"
People from Cleveland Park or Arlington or Alexandria don't have to put up with this sort of nonsense. Either should we.......
Joe -- Why do you say the place being discussed is "an unlawful/unlicensed place." In what way are they breaking the law? Not disagreeing with you -- I honestly don't know, and would like to know.
I freaking give up on you people. Clubs need to have security. Even bars get unruly patrons from time to time. Nation had a pat down, Buzz at Fur did, Ibiza does. Its typical of any club event just to ensure that 1 bad applie doesnt ruin it for everyone.
Also, for a healthy neighborhood you want to see a mix of events. Right now H street is really only 1 type of venue, white hipster, with a smattering of other places like Pat and Peteys and Rose's dream, the martini lounge and 12 that may attract a mostly black crowd. Everytime there is something that will attract a black crowd, people freak out. You wonder why people dont take this as being racist?
If this place becomes a problem, then I've no doubt that it will be shut down. Also, it might just end up being a nice venue for stuff OTHER than gogo too.
Stop trying to turn this into a discussion about race. It started off about "class" (and we can take that either economically or socially) so let's leave it at that.
I don't care who is behind the businesses that come to H Street. AT ALL. I was all for giving XII a chance and have gone there three separate times, hoping to have an experience that makes up for the previous negative one. Hasn't happened yet.
And it has nothing to do with the fact that Bernard is black or that most of the clientle when I was there were black. They were mostly middle class adults in their 30s-40s. My food wasn't that great, the service was terrible, the drinks tasted like gasoline and the prices weren't great. That's that.
Now, when i hear that there were "thugs" outside challenging each other to knife fights, that's another story. And, again, when this NEW place is going to have cops, metal detectors and ALREADY had to drop go-go because of an incident, what the hell does that have to do with race?? It sounds like trouble.
These places happen to be black-owned, yes. And, honestly, there really isn't a lower-class white population in DC like there is in, say, Baltimore. So when you are talking about issues of class, it (unforunately/unfairly) goes hand in hand with race here.
But my opinions have NOTHING WHAT SO EVER to do with the color of the skin of the people commiting the acts with which I have a problem.
dcjaded,
People on this board are not saying that they don't want security at these events. They are saying that regardless of the amount of security you bring to the club, trouble (in the form of fights/urinating /shootings) will occur.
I just wiki'd "go-go music" and here is a portion of what came up:
While go-go's international profile was on the rise in the 1980s, go-go clubs in D.C. were acquiring an unfortunate reputation for violence. In some areas of Washington—even today—clubs are not permitted to play go-go or have go-go bands appear. In 1988, an all-star go-go band dubbed the Go-Go Posse recorded "D.C. Don't Stand for Dodge City," in an attempt to raise awareness and stop the violence. Suffice to say, any reduction in violence was short-lived at best.
One well-publicized venue with trouble was Club U, located inside a District-owned building at the corner of 14th and U Street NW, where numerous incidents—including murder—occurred, leading to the revocation of its liquor license,[10] and eventual closing.[11]
In March 2007, Jack B. Johnson, County Executive in nearby Prince George's County, Maryland, also cracked down on go-go music, announcing the indefinite closing of nine area clubs that had experienced a high frequency of police calls many for violent incidents in the past year.[12] A court battle is ongoing over whether the closings were justified, with a court order temporarily stopping the closing of five of the clubs.[13]
So maybe you should stop acting so exasperated and actually consider other people's concerns about crime. Especially, given all the recent shootings in Trinidad.
I don't understand how a place like this can just seem to pop up(and I am only going by what I can glean from this thread about what it is) when everything else on H Street seems to go through some sort of community review and then permitting. Can anyone explain this? What is the zoning on the building? What kind of CO do they have?(not that DCRA can be trusted with anything)
My opinion is that there are too many of the same sort of establishments opening on H(clubs, bars,etc...don't care who owns them). I would like to see more diversity of businesses and esp retail....(I'm not interested in Foot Locker), but I imagine we are aways from that.
Please. Dont try to use "class" as a shield or codeword. Lets be blunt. The the poor in DC are overwhelming black. Those are the facts. So when you are discussing the economically disadvanted in DC. You are talking primarily about blacks and a small percentage of latinos.
Further, all people here about is gogo is dangerous. Its ill-advised to paint an entire music scene with the same brush. Also, these clubs, any clubs will not cause any additional violence in near your house. In fact it will probably get kids who may otherwise be causing trouble to go somewhere where they can enjoy themselves in safety.
Is anyone even sure this venue is going to be a go-go club? I heard a rumor that this was going to be a "club" run by a MPD cop to give local kids a safe place to hang out on the weekend. Granted, that's just a rumor.
Before everyone gets worked up about this place, I'd like to get some facts.
I've been very disappointed in the lack of information available. In particular, I'm wondering why our new ANC Commissioner hasn't weighed in on the subject. He deserves the benefit of the doubt, but people will rightfully expect him to take a position on this quickly.
Of course, if this an unlicensed club, I'll be the first in line to protest its opening.
The Truth:
I just got off the phone with DCRA and 400 H has a recoding studio with live music/hall license. This type of license is associated with Caberets around town and does allow a cover charge and BYOB. It does not require "security" persay,so I think they are being proactive. I don't think they have security because they expect or want violence.
At the end of the day, establishments succeed on merit, not perception. I mean Sticky Rice is still open after so many poo pooed on it, right.
I'm all for more variety in terms of nightlife in the neighborhood, but really - how can anyone on this board expect people who live here and have invested in the neighborhood (through probably the most expensive financial transaction of their lives) to be excited about any venue that requires this level of security?
And this BYOB thing sounds like a recipe for trouble - the owners/management of the place then have absolutely no control over who is drinking and for how long. With all the crap in the paper lately about violence in the area, the last thing we need is a nightlife venue that's more likely than any other spot on H Street to attract potentially violent patrons.
W.E.C-
Well, shoot, if its a police run club looking to give kids a place to safely hang out, then I'll gladly eat crow on that. That would be wonderful.
And dcjaded, I already made the point about class and race unfairly having to be connected in this argument. My point was that people are wrong to imply that, because that's the way it is, that my comments are racist.
It warms my heart.
-Robby
I dont know why people are freaked out by BYOB. I've been do dozens of BYOB clubs over the years and they arent any worse in regards to drunkedness than any other club or bar. They typically only allow beer or wine (non-glass), and alot of venues make you check multi-packs it at the bar and get it later. They still have to check ID to make sure you can drink what you are bringing into the club.
Joe Englert said:
I don't know how many times I have had to preach this--but retail isn't coming to H street for 3-5 years--especially with a ruinous street construction coming.
Here is all of the "new" inner city neighborhoods from South of Market (SF) to Magazine Street (N.O.) to Williamsburg (NY)
First come the bars and taverns.
Now the restaurants are arriving along with coffee shops.
Hopefully, we get a diner next.
Then we will start having bakeries, clothes store, boutiques, etc. If we don't have a moratorium or a strict policy against wall to wall clubs and restaurants (see the debacle they call Adams Morgan) it will never be a street that all of us can be proud of..........
If the next 100 businesses were African-American run, great. If they are run by Koreans, Nigerians, Ethiopians or Croatians, I could care less too. I just hope they are well-baked, well-capitalized and diversify our neighborhood a bit.
Don't our kids deserve some fresh fruit in the neighborhood?
Don't our wives, girlfriends, sisters and grandmothers deserve to walk down the street, shopping without having to step over drunks and dealing with demeaning comments?
Can't our kids get a music lesson on our street?
That is why you have to stand up against people that are just in the way of a more civilized place.
Let's hold the businesses accountable to be better, licensed, legitimate well-thought our endeavors....that's all......
Joe Englert said:
Sorry for the bad typing.
I meant to say, here is the maturation process they went through. Ours will mirror their growth--from hip urban nightlife to shopping and dining district within five to seven years.....
Again, let's expect ALL the businesses to be licensed and have the best interest of the neighborhood in mind.
And oh yes, DEMAND parking lots and garages on H from Wells, Fenty and anybody else you see. Not deliver them is a disservice to us all............
Joe, if you can help turn H Street into Magazine Street in N.O., or anything close, I will be a happy happy man.
Joe, you don't have to preach about retail....I think I said "diversity of businesses". I actually have little hope/expectation for retail.
hey george townsomething.
i get permits, pay my taxes, clean my yard, and call the cops on prostitutes and muggings.
that's what i do for the neighborhood.
this "club" doesn't have the proper permits, and as such, is not even paying taxes the way they're supposed to.
i'm calling the PO PO (you're so "hip" dear georgie) tonight. if they're legit, we'll find out. if they're not, screw 'em.
my educated guess is that they are not. and contribute nothing in terms of tax to the nabe. just loud music, and one altercation already.
glad to see you support that. now you can go back to your bong.
p.s. you need to spend a bit of time on your analytical thinking. it's totally out of whack.
regards, dear georgie bongsend.
poo poo, is that you?
Folks, former mayor Anthony Williams purchased his home at Senate Square on 3rd and H.
Do you think he's going to tolerate a place without proper permits, and its short history, a track record of violence? No. He won't.
If the cops don't do anything about it, and the comissioner doesn't, I have full faith that he will. He's not mayor, but he carries a lot of weight.
It would be nice to get rid of these idiots before he moves in, but I doubt anyone has the will or clout to do that.
Let them party and gogo, drink, and be "peaceful" for a few nights, until something breaks out, and then we have reason to blame the city for not doing anything.
Step in Mr. Williams.
Bye-bye, illegal noismaker of a joint.
By the way, the alley behind that place is notorious for being able to buy pot and 'ludes'. How do I know? I was offered them twice, while walking around the hood taking alley pictures.
Watch and see. This place is going to claim a life or two and set H Street back, when it shouldn't even be open in the first place!
When that happens, the comissioner of that area is likely not to get re-elected in the coming months.
Not that his competition would do much better....
poo poo neither *is* nor isn't.
poo poo is a philosophy.
there are more poo poo's than you can shake an illicit doob at, on the corner of 4th and H.
but, nah. i'm not 'the one'.
"Can't our kids get a music lesson on our street?" After Chuck Levin, the champion of the blacks on street left for Wheaton. I doubt we'll see something like that again, unless your kid wants trombone lessons. I can give those if you want:)
Soul Searcher, dcjaded, GT, etc., it's really time to hang it up. I know I have. If I have to tell one more person that a neighborhood isn't the ghetto because black people hang out outside their houses... But I think anon 10:56 makes a good point. Having security for nightspots is a terrible sign. Next time I go to the Pug, I'm going to complain that a bouncer checked my id at the door and I'm going to tell those silly bike cops to find some real work to do, instead of hanging out in front of my favorite bar, Martini Lounge and GM's. I'm also going to recommend that everyone should have to bring their W-2s to H Street when going out here at the next ANC meeting. That should get the "thugs" off our streets. Horace and Dickeys? Shut that m'fer down! The patrons are so low brow and thuggish, I can't stand to walk by the place when I want to eat my bucket of tots and Sticky Balls(all jokes aside, you need to try these if you haven't yet. My favorite appitizer on H Street, without a doubt.)
And who needs three beauty stores on one block? There needs to be a Banana Republic and Crate and Barrel on this block soon, or I'm moving to Georgetown. I heard poo poo knows people there. Maybe he can hook me up.
apparently, all ages are allowed.
so.. kids can get in.
that should be interesting. i'll be letting my neighbors know that they have a new place to let their kids hang out - they're all under 20.
woohoo! sounds fun!
oh, and horace and dickey's doesn't tolerate crap. i eat there every week and love the place.
the fact that they are franchising in Miami speaks volumes of their model.
this club, however, is different.
inked whines about why the choi's development didn't consult with the hood... did these folks tell anyone anything? no. but they opened without any community dialogue. the same way some folks want to stop the market for "lack of dialogue" (violin playing in the background), i want to stop these arseholes for the same reason.
as they say in arabic, wahad bwahad (one for one, or as jesus loving folks say, an eye for an eye).
all of you people are so full of double standards, including inked (no offense, inked, i'm just calling it as it is).
by the way, i'm heading out there now. just want to see what's up.
i'll report back later.
poo poo,
So... you don't know about any house deals in G-town?
Joe, I had to snicker about the well-baked business plan comment because I just walked past the country club and was thinking once again, "Indoor miniature golf?"
:-D
Just kidding, I'm sure somehow it will end up being exactly the right thing at the right time. You've been right plenty of times so far.
Anyway, I can't help but think you've done your homework on the n'hood evolution front, but at the same time it's just a bit too convenient for me that you're advocating limiting bars now that you've set yours up. When you open up a bakery or boutique, I'll see the light.
Won't the market lead to this Main Street utopia you're describing? Aren't the demographics around H more in line with a diverse stock of businesses? I prefer your utopia to Adams Morgan but I'm leery of this all-too-convenient advocacy of bar/restaurant restrictions. Do they have them in those other n'hoods you described?
Joe Englert said:
Rob, no problem, I am fair game.
However, I once owned 1210 (Palace of Wonders) 1224 (Sticky Rice) 1234 (Pug) 1380 H(Radius Pizza, coming soon). I sold them not only for profit, but to bring different, good business people into the neighborhood. Whenever Duke Cross (Pap and Petey's) needed advice, I was there for him. Same goes for the new Italian Deli that will be opening up on 10th, too. Promoting good business and business people only helps me.
Anybody can buy any of the places I own now, just name a good price, and I will walk--as long as you are a good business person with strong financials.
That being said, I now have millions invested in the street. You bet your life I want to limit how many clubs can come into the neighborhood. I say right on to anybody opening a good restaurant or bar. But an unwieldy, unthought mega-bar or nightclub is pretty scary.
I will be opening a dessert place within the year. I will be opening a family-friendly pizza parlor in the future, too. So, yes, that is my shot at business diversity.
The country club is going to be an awesome venue for younger kids and family birthday parties by the way.
Finally, the only liquor class you are allowed to open in Georgetown, Glover Park, Tenley Town, Cleveland Park, Woodley Park, Chevy Chase, DC, Takoma DC, Dupont Circle, Logan Circle and now even Adams Morgan is resaurant. You cannot open a tavern or nightclub in these neighborhoods..............
8th and el: no, i don't. not now.
TRUE TO MY WORD, i just ran by 4th and h. i JUST returned home, and am sweating buckets. the place looks clean. parking on the sidestreets and alley is starting to back up. as i was stopped at the light to cross h toward the south, three guys with shades were hanging out. a woman came by, and one of them said (AND I QUOTE), "yo, baby, YO! i'll let you hit this [hand tugging at groin], if you let me hit that!" snap of the fingers, general chuckling from the other two, and the woman making an effort to ignore them. but hey, that's just inoffensive stuff that folks do in NE, no? affirm this please, you folks that support these actions.....
anyway, i know the club is for all ages, but if i had a kid, there is no way i would let him or her into that joint as long as they were under my roof.
OH, and i challenge anyone reading this to go by right now.
RIGHT NOW!
There are four older guys smoking pot in the alley behind the place.
go and see and then argue with me, if you dare, after you see it in action.
GO. NOW.
the place is a crock.
and in case any of you don't believe me, check out the red motorcycle parked on the sidewalk on the 4th street side. it's the site where the street hangers tend to gravitate, when i went by.
Why can't some blacks just admit there are some ingorant-ass black folks out there, just like some whites will admit there are some ignorant-ass white folks out there. Brotha' your own denial is keeping you down.
From American Beauty, "Never underestimate the power of denial."
stupid people of every race, color, class, ethnicity, etc. always point the finger at someone else.
that's democracy, for the illiterate.
sort of a catch 20/20, no?
the louder the voice, the more relevant the 'point'.
gotta love america...
Poo Poo, there is a huge difference between that tiny building an ten story one with various issues linked to a 24 acre development. Plus, the Market is in my ANC, this thing at 4th and H isn't. They don't abut my ANC and so they wouldn't consult us. I know next to nothing about the business at 4th and H, but I know a lot about the Gateway Market Residences. That isn't hypocrisy, it's geography.
SO, Anyone call the police? If so, what happened?
"where do you buy sneakers in chinatown?"
CITY SPORTS YOU IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just drove down H and had to lock my doors. 20 wana be rap thugs littering the street.
I hope the street sweeper comes by soon to clean them up! LOL
dont see any floks doing this at Sticky Rice, Pug, Red and Black, R ock and Roll Hotel, GMs, or thr Arganuat
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=706&sid=1391463
http://www.examiner.com/a-1347716~Club_shooting_victim_dies__venue_temporarily_closed.html
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/columns/showandtell/
three shootings in DC in the past two years to do with go go places.
someone tell me three shootings that have happened in normal nightclubs. (please dont give me H20 where criminals hang)
totally what H Street needs teenagers running around with guns...
but now that I made my point I will be called a racist. Reverse racism, never addressed and PATHETICCCCCC...
a more refined search came up with a few more area go-go killings
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/11/AR2007021101458.html
http://www.examiner.com/a-1347716~Club_shooting_victim_dies__venue_temporarily_closed.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/07/AR2008050700106.html
and one from our own hav blog!
http://frozentropics.blogspot.com/2006/08/post-more-on-shooting-market-lounge.html
seems like a great idea to have this trash in our hood
next these poeple will be calling the newspapers racist for running the stories...
from the post
The District's all-ages policies allow nightclubs to attract larger audiences, particularly die-hard teenage music fans. But many teenagers admitted yesterday that part of the growth of area nightclubs is due to the ease with which young people can obtain alcoholic drinks. Several said they either pay club employees an extra $5 or $10 to get a drink or find a club patron who is 21 or older to buy the drink.
Briejon Smith, 14, Ford's cousin, said that at several city clubs, it is "easy" for teenagers to get alcohol. "All you have to do is slip the bartender $10 and you can get a drink. They ask me if I have ID, and I say 'No,' and then they charge me extra. But I can still get in and order a drink if I wanted to," she said.
we need drunk 14 year olds.
Hey Joe - you let 14 year old kids in your places?
First, we now have indications that they may no longer be hosting go-go concerts.
But if that is no so..
Well, if the place is BYOB, you won't have bartenders in the alcohol equation. Go-Go may appeal to certain segments of the population, by which I mean young black males, where there may be a statistically greater incidence of violence, but that doesn't mean that you will necessarily have violence at a particular venue. Statistics also don't translate particularly well to individuals. Lots of kids go to these concerts, and only a few cause problems. All teens still need places to go that aren't home. We should consider that, particularly when many rec centers close down early, and aren't up for the mid-night basketball thing. How early did you fall asleep at 16? Because I had serious insomnia at that age.
Well meaning white people--it's okay to express anger and fear about dangerous and bad behavior when it comes to any ethnic group, including African Americans.
Well meaning black people--it's okay to admit that there are uneducated and clueless African-Americans just like there are millions of clueless White-Americans.
Inked--it's okay to admit some businesses plain out suck.
It's okay to admit some kids are just outright criminals and bad eggs.
It's okay to have a value judgement about anybody you feel like. It's called self-protection and it's called rationale. (And sometimes it might be misguided)
It's okay if you are rolling a baby carriage down H to avoid a group of mean nasty people.
It's called survival and it's called looking out for your responsibilities.
And when it comes down to it, it doesn't matter what we all say or write on some blog.
How do you treat people one-on-one? How generous are you when it counts? How willing are you to give up a little wealth to give someone an opportunity? We are challenged every day in simple ways.
How do we respond?
Inked you are being extremely ignorant to this one. Go Go, Poetry Slam what ever they are calling ti is the same thing.
Take a look at teh people on the flyers, do they look like they are going to be reading poerty in a circle?
As for all the articles, that valisates teh neighborhoods concern. Someone show me over that last two years 9 instances where white people wehn around shooting eachother in bars?
Dont call me a genious but I am pretty sure this is why we dont want this crap in our neighborhood
Is this the building that used to have the oddly comforting murals of what I assumed to be Michael and Janet Jackson as children? With the oddly oversize heads?
I loved that mural.
I do find it surprising that you can open a club in DC with absolutely no ABC oversight or community input if you simply allow BYOB instead of serving alcohol. That would seem to be a major loophole in the draconian DC liquor laws.
Can anyone shed some light on the actual permit process / legality / public notice requirements of a BYOB club?
I essentially asked that question many posts back....no real answers. Why doesn't the whole neighborhood show up at the next ANC meeting and ask the ANC zoning committee to look into this and get on top of it? I would think that community pressure needs to be applied. I am saying this in regards to correct procedure and to start letting people know that you will not stand for this if it is in fact illegal.
I just can't understand how something like this just pops up, while everything else is going through review, etc. Did they have the proper permits for the reno?
And PS...to Joe Englert's point....at the same time I was commenting yesterday....my daughter and a friend were at Bikram Yoga. She took a friend from Chevy Chase DC. She had to convince the friend to come over here, she wanted to go the the Dupont Circle studio. My daughter said the friend was uncomfortable the whole time walking to and from the car and didn't want to leave the yoga studio to walk back to the car....so much for stopping at Sidamo afterwards.
I always wondered about the group of people who are hanging out in the alley behind the yoga studio....they are there all the time.
of course Joe E. wants to limit future bars and clubs on H street. it's called eliminating the competition!
If the competition is XII and this 400 place, then I'm all for a Joe-opoly on H...we can call him our Dear Leader...
Anon 637,
That flyer is for a go-go event, not for the entire place. This is in ANC6C, which is not my ANC, and not in an area that I pass everyday. I have ridden the bus past this place, and that's it. I'd prefer to hold off on making any judgments about the place until I have more information. I fail to see how that is extremely ignorant. One comment says that someone called DCRA and the licenses were in order. I don't know the rules about ANC input for this type of place. If there is a problem, then there is a problem. I'mm just saying that I don't yet know that there is a problem. And I've never been to a poetry slam that ended in someone getting shot, or a poetry slam that resembled a go-go concert. And, based on some poetry slams I've attended, yeah, the people on the flyer could actually be dressed for such an event.
Joe Englert said:
Charles, I want more licenses on the whole of H st--but I want them to serve food and be responsible. That is to be CR and CT licenses. Everytime a good, new place on H street opens, revenue goes up about 25% for everyone of our places. Why would I want to stop such a trend?.
We aren't in retail competing for a finite dollar.
The entertainment dollar is not static. Often, people go to Sticky Rice for dinner and then GM for a drink or vice-versa. Lots of bars and restaurants in the same area work--its called clustering.
Badly run, illegal clubs is called scary. It hurts everyone.
Anon. 12:20 a.m said, "but now that I made my point I will be called a racist. Reverse racism, never addressed and PATHETICCCCCC..."
SO TRUE! Young white people trying so hard to be liberal and tolerant of the woes of the'black man' they don't even realize how their pity keeps him down.
ANYONE WANT TO ADDRESS THE 7 ATRICLES POSTED LAST NIGHT DETAILING THE SHOOTINGS IN THE DC AREA AT THESE GO-GO EVENTS.
OR I GUESS ON THIS BLOG WHEN SOMEONE MAKES A LEGIT COMMENT AND BACKS IT UP NO ONE CAN AGREE.
UNBELIEVABLE
ANY OF YOU IDIOTS THAT READ THESE ARTICLES AND WANT THIS IN THE HOOD HAVE A PROBLEM AND YOU ARE PROBABLY PART OF IT...!
Agreed with last post. Not even Inked will agree. Has anyone read the acticles?
Inked says no bartenders BYOB is better. Do you have any education? BYOB is alot easier for a 14 year old to drink then with a bartender. You dont have the balls to denounce a shoot em up club because it is black owned.
I'll add my support to that - people love to say stuff like 'just because these types of bars tend to have problems doesn't mean this one will' while totally ignoring the fact that the odds of violent crime along our emerging commercial strip just shot up by virtue of this place being in business.
I know a lot of of well-meaning liberals feel they have to say garbage like this to prove they aren't racists, but let's deal with reality, folks. This kind of establishment is going to be trouble, and I don't give a damn about diversity if this is what people are willing to tolerate in its name.
So what's the next step in addressing neighborhood concern over this place? This blog tends to be a place to vent and share opinions. I'd like to see more. Where's the action?
Where's our new ANC Commissioner on this issue? I'd certainly like to see him get some facts about this place and share it with the community.
How about a meeting with the new owner so that he can explain to neighbors what type of business he's running? If it's good for the community, let's support it. If it's bad for the neighborhood or illegal, let's band together and shut it down.
It seems that these things should have already happened. Anytime there is a new business opening in our neighboring ANC, Commissioner Fengler is all over the prospective businessowners to provide the local community with facts and input.
For too long, that type of active engagement has been missing on this end of H St. I hope Tony Richardson steps up to the plate and addresses this issue very soon.
I cant imagine this "business or bizzness" if you can call it that went through the proper procedures with the city and ANC.
The shootings alone at these gogo establishments raise enough concern for a meeting with the "business or bizzness" owners to explain how they are going to run a safe extablishment.
Here is the owner information for this building.
Owner Name: DARRYL POUNDS
Mailing Address: 4613 LAMBERT PL; ALEXANDRIA VA22311-4959
Sale Price: Not Available
Sale Date: 04/03/2000
Instrument No.: 31843
In addition, Darryl is 13,322 in back property taxes on his building.
http://football.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=3436
I remember this guy drafted by the Redskins. Had a long very criminal history
Anon 1241,
of course BYOB has its own issues. I too was under 21 once, and I took advantage of the BYOB thing a time or two. I was just saying it didn't have the specific bartender issue that was raised above.
Reading all this hostile talk would be funny if it weren’t real. I don’t really know how to feel as a person, let alone a native Washingtonian, let alone a gay guy, lets alone a black guy about some of the more vile stuff that’s been written here.
It really shows how far we’ve not come as a city and as a country since 1968. We can nominate a biracial candidate to the Democratic party, and still the idea of a business that may cater to “low class” black people raises the hackles on our collective backs.
It’s beyond disappointing, yet there is hope in the reasoned comments. There are hard truths that we all must come to terms with.
Talking about black violence doesn’t make one a racist. Assuming that blacks will be violent is a sign of bias.
I live up in Trinidad, way up in Trinidad on a small block tucked away, amidst a nest of one way streets and an open air drug market. All of the dealers are black, young and male. That’s not a biased statement, that’s factual. Most of the people buying the drugs as I can tell are actually from all races and walks of life, on any given day you can see Asian, Latino, White, Black, and people of undeterminable ethnic heritage drive up and buy drugs. It wasn’t until neighbors took a stand against the insanity, that the flow of people slowed.
I say this to say we can work together and make H great for all types of people, and have many different experiences. Or we can continue this high handedness that really makes people like me, that want harmony, not want to frequent H.
I sometimes feel like H isn’t welcoming to black people, or the native black experience, and while I know that isn’t true, because I’ve ventured down there. I also know many blacks who do feel that it is not for them. From this blog I get the impression that many people believe that blacks are lazy trouble makers that neglected this area for years and now are fighting any “positive change.” I’ve read comments to the effect, “Why beat up on me for trying to make the place better?”
The “while man as the victim” is an interesting construct, but it is just as indigestion prone as the “black guy as the eternal victim” construct. In the end both are dumb and backwards. The reality is that we need to get along. The street is wide and long and there is room for all of us.
Let us collectively try to make efforts to push our growing edges and listen more, and think before we talk or write.
-Robby
Robby said, "I sometimes feel like H isn’t welcoming to black people, or the native black experience, and while I know that isn’t true, because I’ve ventured down there."
I say, I OFTEN feel like H isn't welcoming to white people or the native white experience, and I know that's true because I venture down there frequently.
Robby, H St. businesses have catered to “low class” black people since before 1968 and they've had 40+ years to do something constructive with that - including having "their own" in leadership positions that they democratically elected all these years. And think about ALL the positive things Marion Barry has done for his black people - especially the "low class" ones at that - and yet these brilliant people continue to reelect him (and others) into leadership positions. This level of - what do I call it other than ignorance or is it misguided loyalty - confuses the hell out of young middle clas white people who just want to live in their (our) neighborhoods in peace and get along with our peaceful homeowning black neighbors - who no doubt are just as fed up with this crime as the rest of us. Yes, it's enough to raise the hackles on our collective backs as well.
- middle income, homeowner, gay man - oh, I left off white if that's relative.
na - dont include white or Robby mihgt cry again in the park...
no one cares on this blog about change, everyone only bitches the way it has been and why it should be that way. speaks to their education
Wow, you're angry.
That damn victim role.
The "These damn niggers come here and complain but wont fix anything. They had 40 years of low class bullshit, and now they're mad because us good white people have come in and cleaned it up and made it ours. They love their crack smoking nigger mayor w/o cause. They are ignorant money looking niggers" attitude.
I am sorry if that offended anyone, but I figured I should translate the last message. I have a solid gold swiss made bullshitometer.
Here's the truth GWM, you're an ass. All who think like you are assholes. The very notion that, its about "our" neighborhood, or "your Maion Barry" is what's wrong with the conversation. The neighborhood belongs to everyone, and Former Mayor Barry was the Mayor of everyone when he was the second and fourth Mayor of the District.
I don't think that the Washington Post, which endorsed him at least three out of four times he ran is run by poor blacks or any blacks at all.
Sir at least have the balls to call me a nigger to my face. Inked knows how to find me. We can arragne it. No, no, really I am w/n walking distance. We can arrange a meeting you can call me a nigger and be done with it. Get it off your chest. Then you can beat your chest, shout white power and move the hell on.
Leave the business of trying to work together to people that actually give a damn.
-Robby, Just another middle class home owning Nigger
"Anonymous said...
na - dont include white or Robby mihgt cry again in the park...
no one cares on this blog about change, everyone only bitches the way it has been and why it should be that way. speaks to their education"
It warms my heart. It really does. If a black person disagrees they must be ignorant. Funny.
Bless your soul.
-Robby
you cant really be serious with your barry comments. last time i checked he was caught having sex with prostitiues and smoking crack, but blacks kept him in office ecause they hold 80% of the vote. shows how dumb certain people can be. i am laughing and cannot stop. had to take a puff off of my inhalor
"Former Mayor Barry was the Mayor of everyone"
The reality is Marion Barry used racial division and hatreds to his own political advantage for decades. Just like white mayors in other cities have done in years past.
The only real difference I see is the timing.... by the time Marion Barry was deeply entrenched in power it was unfashionable for white mayors to appeal so obviously to racial tensions. Marion Barry, on the other hand, reveled in it.
The other obvious difference is that he betrayed his own constituency, literally ruining the city and making life pretty bad for a whole bunch of people (the burden of the hell he helped create fell most heavily on the very poor).
But to suggest he was 'everyone's mayor' is to ignore reality.
Can anyone shed some light on the actual history of go go clubs in DC? For instance, how many have lasted for any significant period of time without violence?
Also, if the previous poster is correct and this property owner is behind in his taxes, he is supposedly precluded from getting a business license. One of the first things you have to fill out to get a business license is a 'Clean Hands' form where you swear you don't owe the city any unpaid taxes.
Of course, if this info is coming solely from DC records we can't assume it's actually correct, given the sorry state of DC records online.
Check the history. He was endorsed by the Post three times, in 1978, 1982, and 1986.
No further comment needed.
-Robby
What is the 'native black experience' in DC?
Is it really that monolithic?
Hillman is correct. We actually should do some real fact finding. Beyond the meaningless race and class BS/debate. We need real informaiton inorder to make reals decisions.
Hillman no it’s not a monolith, an organized whole that acts as a single unified powerful or influential force. However, since I have a father from 15th street NE and other friends and family in other places nearby. I've met people from this patch of NE, many lived here 50 years, white and black who remember how it was to be here back then. What H was like, what H wasn't like.
The "native blacks” in NE are not like the Borg, but they did share common experiences back when segregation, real and imagined, forced most of them to live in close proximity. We lose something by not recording their history. To me, and I am young, the building that we are discussing is a radio station. That's my reality, and that's now past. To the older population it's something else.
real information, how can you be so blind to not see the decision.
please copy and paste each link...
count the number of locals killed at these gogo clubs
http://www.wtop.com/?nid=706&sid=1391463
http://www.examiner.com/a-1347716~Club_shooting_victim_dies__venue_temporarily_closed.html
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/columns/showandtell/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/11/AR2007021101458.html
http://www.examiner.com/a-1347716~Club_shooting_victim_dies__venue_temporarily_closed.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/07/AR2008050700106.html
http://frozentropics.blogspot.com/2006/08/post-more-on-shooting-market-lounge.html
did the post endorse him after he was caught smoking crack and banging hookers?
Robby do some research before stating the post endorsed him time after time
"After endorsing Barry for the 1978 election, (Washington Post Editorial 1978) they seem to regret it the next year. In a 1979 article Coleman claims his speeches content have become more like that of the slow and oaf like Washington (Barry's predecessor) "than of the outrages of American materialism and injustices of racial discrimination that once were Barry's major themes." (Coleman) Quoting Barry, "If I can just get everybody to answer the phone right, that's drastic change, that's revolution", Coleman proves Barry is perhaps not the Mayor everyone claimed he would become. (Coleman) Yet perhaps the media is always negative about American politicians"
To Anon 2:48:00 AM:
Oh, you mean dumb like when certain people saw certain other people as property, forced them to work, beat them, killed them, raped their women and segregated this country? Yes...it does show “how dumb certain people can be.”
"the “while man as the victim” is an interesting construct, but it is just as indigestion prone as the “black guy as the eternal victim” construct. In the end both are dumb and backwards."
Robby:
I absolutely agree that we should document the past. I know there are groups out there doing that. Many of our elders are dying off, and a lot of institutional knowledge is dying with them.
I can't pretend to know what it's like to be black in DC.
But I can tell you how it has been to be white in DC.
I grew up dirt poor in rural white America. I don't mean a little poor. I mean so poor that we were each rationed the number of toilet paper squares each of us could use each day. We were very lucky if we got meat of any kind twice a week.
I saw poorly educated poor rural America from the inside. And, yes, there certainly was racism there. The only thing I would say, though, was that it was far from universal. And often, oddly, is was more theoretical than practical. There were blacks amongst us, and we often identified with them moreso than we did with wealthier whites.
I had a mother and father that both worked demeaning jobs to support their kids. My father picked up trash by the side of the road for the county when he couldn't find work elsewhere. And my Mom scrubbed toilets. We lived in an area that did not have the easy availability of jobs that DC has traditionally had, and continues to have.
Ironically, they were in this pickle in large part because my Dad lost his job standing up for the rights of blacks. He was a preacher, and he insisted very early on that his church include black people, civil rights and issues of social justice. He was, pardon the pun(?), blackballed for his position. He never recovered his professional position fully.
My own dirt poor background is why I find it sortof silly that we say that people living on the dole in DC are 'poor' and that are constantly to be pitied, regardless of their own actions, or lack therof. By comparison to many of us they are poor. But compared to 95% of the rest of the world they are not. And compared to many even here in this country they are quite comfortable, with adequate housing, enough to eat, decent clothes to wear, easy access to the amenities and opportunities of a world class city, a stunningly strong job market, etc.....
Anyway, I grew up a good liberal,probably in large part because of my parents' idealism.
Then I moved to DC.
I quickly learned that racism isn't just a white thing, and I learned also that racism is acceptable to many, as long as it's black on white.
I was naive at first, but it soon became clear that I was a second class citizen here. Black DC cops would talk to me one way, and totally different to black people. Same with most (but certainly not all) DC employees I ran into. Same in many private industries.
Many interactions with city agencies made the different standards applied to me glaringly obvious.
Three black men robbed me at gunpoint. They definitely made it a racial issue, threatening to make sure I didn't 'have any more cracker babies'.
I've been called 'cracker' and a dozen variations more times than I can possibly recount. For a while there I thought 'white boy' was my actual name, but only if said with derision and contempt.
Countless interactions in DC led me to conclude the obvious: black and white aren't equal in DC. And for many in DC it's perfectly acceptable to treat whites in a more hostile manner.
The racism was not even subtle. Quite often it was right there in the open.
And I learned pretty quickly that you could never ever challenge the status quo or any social program, no matter how obvious it was failing, without being called a racist. It became a given.
It's a shame, really, because I've also had terrific interactions with people of all colors and backgrounds in DC.
And I do think it's something that can get better.
But to do that we have to attack the self destructive aspects of a culture that is so often seen in lower income communities in DC (and it's not necessarily a race thing..... many of the same pathologies exist in poor white communities), and we have to acknowledge that racism is alive and well in the black community, just like it is in the white world at large.
It's just that in the white world at large most people will tell you that such racism is wrong and shouldn't be tolerated.
In DC, it's been my experience that many don't see anything wrong with black-on-white racism.
Example: how often do we hear blacks in DC saying we need to 'preserve black neighborhoods'? Can you imagine the hell that would break loose if whites in DC went on about 'preserving white neighborhoods'?
I can't count the number of establishments in DC I've been made to feel unwelcome in, while the black person next to me is welcomed heartily.
Would this be tolerated if the situation were reversed?
Of course, I also realize that all I have to do is leave DC and suddenly I'm once again a member of the privileged class in most areas of the US. But it's worth noting that this is NOT automatic. When I was white and dirt poor I certainly wasn't a member of any sort of privileged class.
We can make things in DC better, but we have to admit that there is a lot of black on white racism and hatred in DC. Is it universal? Absolutely not. But from a white guy's perspective, I'd have to say it is commonplace. And most of DC is deep in denial about it.
Wow, that sums up my 23 years in DC as a white guy in a nut shell. Great comment.
Hillman
Couldnt have said it any better. Agree 100% I am glad someone else here has had the same experiances in DC and is willing to voice their opinion
Hillman hit the nail on the head...here 28 years. White female.
Cannot agree more with Hillman. You hit a bullseye with that dart (34 Year Old Male
Do ever get the sense black people just don't "get it" just like white people just don't "get it"?
H St. businesses have catered to “low class” black people since before 1968 and they've had 40+ years to do something constructive with that...
Bullshit. Read your history. H Street businesses have historically been mixed, with Irish, Jewish, and Black proprieters catering to their respective "target markets". Clubs on H Street followed the same trend.
I plan to attend the george townsend go-go this friday night, 40 in one hand and a 14 year old in the other. How ya like the noiz?
In the end Hillman, bias sucks. Your experiences are not unique. What is interesting in DC, unlike any other place I've been. The Bias, because of the large black population and that blacks ran the government, runs both ways.
It makes DC to me feel more open than other cities. I will accept that is counter intuitive. But every where else I go, I am odd or at least different, because I am black. It is refreshing to some degree to have been a black kid here. To have seen that blacks can achieve the highest levels of success in government and in the private sector. I grew up w/o many of the black self loathing that many of my peers in college did. I took it for granted that a Mayor could be black, that the leaders could be black.
I dare say it was wonderful to live here and not feel like the odd man out.
To feel normal, not different, special, but just a regular citizen is an amazing feeling. When I leave DC, and spend time other places I am reminded that our young democracy is the exception not the rule. Many Major cities have never had a mayor other than a White male. It's really a point of pride, since the current government is rather young to have achieved so much and to be where we are, we've not done so bad.
From Washington the Fenty we've been led by Mayor's that have truly loved and intended the best for the city. The execution has been uneven, but to reduce Mr. Barry to only being a crack head and a whore monger is to deny that he did any good. Personally, I will always have admiration for Mr. Barry, at times he was a lone proud voice fighting the US Congress on behalf of the poor, young and elderly in the District. I am not an apologist for him. Those are just my personal feelings about the Man, whom I have to view in all of his seasons, not just in the Winter of his life.
Racial Bias cuts both ways. In some respects I am glad, because here many white Americans, who normally have the option to opt out of interacting with black people, have to do so. White people here get to be called names, and looked down on and made to feel unwelcomed, for no other reason but for the color of their skin.
It is a bias felt by many black, brown, and biracial people the world over.
It isn't nice, it isn't fair, but maybe it can be a launching pad into something better. No one like s the way it feels. Let's work together to end it. Person by person.
-Robby
"The execution has been uneven, but to reduce Mr. Barry to only being a crack head and a whore monger is to deny that he did any good."
I couldn't care less about his sex life, if only he had been a decent mayor and not the actual source of the hell DC became.
What chaps my ass is how he ruined this city and played so cynically to racial divisions.
He singlehandedly created a city government whose chief function was to sustain jobs for themselves. Actually governing the city was something they would try only when forced.
He encouraged a welfare system that damned countless people to lives of crushing poverty and crime, and many to an early death.
He presided over a city where many thousands were the victims of violent crime, yet he did less than nothing about it - his policies, so obviously failures, were the primary reasons for the stunning crime rate.
He started out with decent ideals, but he quickly became a selfish, cynical prick, blinded by his hatred of whites and enamored of the sycophantic praise of countless worthless losers around him, and thousands suffered because of him.
"It's really a point of pride, since the current government is rather young to have achieved so much and to be where we are, we've not done so bad."
Is that a joke? The 'current government' was given the nation's capital, lock stock and barrel.
It could have been a massive economic powerhouse, what with the never-ending stream of jobs and federal presence here,and a shining example of racial harmony and decency for all.
Instead, race hatred and laziness soon became the coin of the realm (admittedly, not always, but certainly often enough to ruin the city).
Granted, there were some problems inherited (including lack of representation in Congress, a fiscal imbalance created by the Feds themselves).
But with even a minimally competent local government we could have overcome all of that.
But we didn't. We slid into stunning crime, crushing and unnecessary poverty, and unbelievably useless local government..... all the while squandering possibilities that just about every other city on earth would kill for - a massive federal job presence, a terrific public transit system, a beautiful city with stunning housing stock, etc, etc., etc.
And even the one thing that DC should have gotten right - the equal treatment of all, regardless of race, we managed to piss away. What's doubly sad is that those in DC knew (and know) better, having been the victims of racial hatred. But, no, they more often than could ever be acceptable immediately went out and crapped all over other races.
I just don't find much to celebrate there.
I like ham.
Wow, you're angry. I am not. I am sorry your anger, when you calm down maybe we can have a conversation.
I said
"It isn't nice, it isn't fair, but maybe it can be a launching pad into something better. No one like s the way it feels. Let's work together to end it. Person by person. "
I guess you're too angry to focus on that, I guess when you come back down I will be here. We can talk about it.
Lets forcus on the future.
Otherwise have a blessed day.
-Robby
Hillman watch out. Robby might go to the park to cry because he dosent like your tone
Robby:
That's a copout and you know it.
I'm not really angry. More sad and disgusted than angry.
And I notice you didn't actually refute anything I said.
I am delighted to know that so many of you are interested in promoting quality establishments on H Street. I appreciate George Townsend's historical commentary and other substantive commentary as it relates to this issue. However, I would like to bring everyone up to speed and clarify some things.
Studio 400 came to my attention as I was walking the neighborhood during my campaign efforts. I naturally assumed the establishment had jumped through all the necessary hoops with the city and local municipalities because they had been aggressively renovating the building for at least four months. During one of my walks I approached a young man outside of the Studio to inquire about the nature of the business. At that time the response I received wasn't totally clear.
After my appointment as Commissioner, on May 22, 2008, I spoke to other commissioners to learn more about Studio 400 and ANC 6C’s position and approval or support for this establishment. I was dismayed to learn that Studio 400 received a business permit under the radar of our entire Commission (ANC 6C); the Planning, Zoning, and the Environment Committee (of the commission); and all of the residents that make-up the H Street corridor. I find it troubling that this establishment was not brought before the community during the critical stages of them pursing a business permit. Studio 400 does not have an alcohol permit and thus, they did not have to seek support from our Commission’s Alcohol, Tobacco, & Licensing Committee.
On May 29th, I spoke with the operators of this establishment to formally introduce myself and to schedule a meeting. I met with Mr. Antoine Rice and Thay Smith, operators of Studio 400 on June 4th and again on June 6th. I toured the facilities on both occasions. According to the primary operators, the facility will be used to mentor and tutor youth through music (primarily go-go), and art. I was told that their permit of occupancy allows them to operate in this capacity and as a hall. When Studio 400 allows caterers to use the hall, alcohol may be served by the caterer.
I was very clear with the owners that this community was in the process of redeveloping and as such; residents are vigilant concerning new businesses and development affecting the quality of our neighborhood. With that in mind, I advised them that it was imperative for them to present their business before the ANC Planning & Zoning Committee, the full ANC Commission, and to present their business to the community. The owners have agreed to do so. As a result, I will have Studio 400 on the agenda for July 2nd – Planning & Zoning Committee at NPR, (635 Mass. Ave., NW)) at 7:00 p.m. and the next full ANC meeting on July 9th at 7:00 p.m. also at NPR. You are encouraged to attend. I am also planning a community meeting with all residents of 6C05 and business owners in the SMD to give residents the opportunity to raise questions and concerns directly with the owners and Visa Versa. Unfortunately at this time I am not at liberty to disclose additional information that I am working on with regard to this issue. However, I will keep the community updated on this matter. Please continue to be watchful and report to me and other responsible officials of any suspicious activity within the community . I look forward to working with you on this matter and many others.
Tony Richardson
Commissioner, ANC 6C
Inked, this one might be worth its own link on the main page...
Good idea. Every neighborhood has to start getting all over the city on enforcement and putting a stop to this "under the radar" sh**. Why not invite Kwame Brown and Tommy Wells?
If you walk by the place right now, you'll see that they're advertising "free drinks" in their latest flyer. I'm not sure how you serve free drinks without a liquor license...unless it's non-alcoholic. Regardless, this is cause for concern.
Bravo to Tony for getting on the case.
Thanks Tony for sharing this information about Studio 400. Please look into their "free drinks" advertisement. What hours are they allowed to operate? What kind of security are they required to have during events? I don't recall hearing about Studio 400's move to H Street from Alan. Thanks for explaining that they somehow bypassed the community. We definitely need to show a presence at these upcoming meetings to voice our concerns. I agree that you should nail down Kwane Brown, Tommy Wells, neighboring commissioners, and others to attend the community meeting. Lets stay on top of them!!!!
Robby,
You were the first, at least earliest clearly visible, person here to exhibit "anger" in your post. Yet you cop out of the argument, one that was completely superior to your infantile view. You should know you wasted much time and effort on this blog, except to let everyone know that you are a racist and a bigot in your own right. To desire another human being to be marginalized to seek a jumping off point is ignorant and backwards. You are the kind of person that keeps the status quo. Continue to argue for the rights of the people you perceive to be "like" you, and against those that are not "like" you and keep thinking you are taking anything but the low road. I truly feel sorry for you.
All of you, both black and white, need to stop it! The entire go-go debate is a class issue! I've passed by there many times and have not seen any problems whatsoever. What else is close to that block other than some empty lots? Let's discuss what business plan on moving onto those blocks in the near future and how they will affect all of our equity! All of you are in great denial if you thought that you would move into the middle of the hood and see changes immediately! I was doing business in Dundalk Maryland earlier this week and the lower class whites were just as bad as lower class blacks! Did I look down on them? No. Most Americans are less fortunate than all of us on this blog. Now that doesn't mean that destructive behavior, loitering and littering should be tolerated! And for those whites that are treated unfairly in DC, just think about how all blacks are treated on a daily basis for our entire lives despite our MD's, PHD's, Masters Degrees, or GED's. Most of us are very proud AMERICANS and harbor no ill feelings towards you! Maybe someone should plan a "Frozen Tropics Blog Party" at a local establishment in order to discuss and debate topics of interest? I am confident that there is much to learn from all sides. Once again, when you get pissed at these lower class people in the neighborhood who happen to be "black", you would experience the exact same thing if you were in a lower class white area. You may not see it, but "middle and upper class blacks" stick out like sore thumbs in the hood as well! We have a huge class divide in the black community (that's an entirely different conversation). But guess what? You learn a lot from people who are not like yourself. Welcome to the neighborhood, and I would love to meet any and all of you on a lighter note. Don't get discouraged, hang in there! We all are feeling the same pain! And guess what? You are not racist for venting your frustrations. It may be a little uncomfortable for most, but just try socializing outside of your own circle and you'll discover an entirely different H Street and DC!
"Mentor and tutor youth through go-go music"....what a crock of *&%#! I can only wonder if Tony kept a straight face when they actually told him that.
Can anyone take a picture of the flier that says they serve drinks? (from the previous anon. poster).
If, in fact, they are advertising alcoholic service bringing evidence of that to the July 2nd meeting would be critical.
It's not a class issue exclusively, just like it's not exclusive to one race.
At least not an economic class issue, as economic status being the only determining factor.
There are plenty of poor people out there that are terrific, upstanding citizens.
It's a culture issue.
And I have to defend Robby a bit. He has been quite positive and encouraging in tone on several occasions.
We should also remember that this format is one in which your printed word is usually taken at it's harshest, and you don't get the instant in-person give and take that often results in a more cordial conversation.
I drove by Club 400 today about 2 o'clock....I was in the car....the flyers on the front of the building(the headlines that I could make out):
"Grown and Sexy...Wednesdays Live!"
The logo was in the bottom left corner. There were bands(I imagine, etc.) mentioned, but I could make out no fine print.
How many shootings have to take place there inorder for it to be shut down?
I don't think anyone has mentioned the obvious: if this place mentors and tutors youth (through go-go music or not) why would they ever serve any alcohol? I don't get it--seems mentoring and tutoring youth would never involve alcohol. If this place has anything to do with area youths, why are they involving alcohol? Seems whack!
Hillman, what you said in your 6/9/08 7:37 post hit the nail on the head for so many of us here and I think should be reposted for a discussion in itself. Too bad its about to cycle out.
There were a number of people posting after you that were in total agreement with you. I'm curious if all of them were white and/or if there were any African Americans out there that were willing to admit/post that there was at least SOME truth to what you were preaching. Seems that many African Americans are so busy standing up for their own that they can't see the overall harm it does in keeping their own black community down (think OJ).
As a gay white male, I think what Former Gov. Jim McGreavy did is deplorable and I do not defend anything this man did and Andrew Cannanon was a nut job and I certainly don't embrass him as part of the gay community. I just don't understand it among the black community. Maybe someone can enlighten me.
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