Sad it did not work out. Pretty cool mixed crowd with a nice authentic neighborhood feel for a while there.
I did notice a sudden decline in clientele and service professionalism the last few times I was there. Was it under new management or ownership near the end?
That is sad news. Unfortunately, I think a big factor had to be location. The west end of H St. just doesnt have the foot traffic and number of establishments that the east end has.
Went on Friday night and they only had two types of bottled beer (with no beer on tap), wine at $10 a glass, and the menu had shrunk since the last time I was there. After one drink, we left saying it would probably be the last time we dropped in. Didn't think it was about to close though.
Sidamo is doing great but its a coffee shop that closes at 6 or 7 PM. Much different than a bar/lounge/restaurant that keeps later hours. If P and P had neighbors like the bars/restaurants on the east end, it might have had a better shot at drawing in more people.
A few things. I think most people on this blog have zero clue as to what makes a business successful. It's not always about how many people come through the door. That's a big part of it, but then I see these comments about how well Sidamo is doing, and I can tell you for a fact that they haven't even made money yet. What bothers me is the lack of knowledge by most people around here with what they think a successful business is.
Staying afloat is hardly doing well. What certainly helps Sidamo is the fact that they have low labor cost given that Kenfe and Mimi work a lot of hours there themselves. But you have to sell a hell of a lot of coffee to do well, and given the lack of foot traffic on H St right now, I can tell you that they're looking to the future.
I've been a small business consultant for 17 years, and I've worked with at least 7 or 8 independent coffee establishments from here to Richmond and Baltimore. Unless you have 200 people walking through your door every day, or unless you have a second or third revenue stream besides coffee, then you're just not making money.
There's clearly a lot more to it then that, but I'm not trying to teach small business 101.
All I'm saying is, I get irritated when I see people who have never even run a lemonade stand comment about who's doing well, and who isn't. There are a lot of businesses on H St that are just barely getting by, and most of those owners are in significant debt.
The long and short is that the western terminus of H Street NE needed a spacious "local" with a decent jukebox, consistent service, and a familiar atmosphere. We were instead provided with a cramped, rigid space with occasional jazz (a risky genre to introduce to a part of town that doesn't have anything other than yoga and coffee) and poor service. Duke's failure to advertise, open up the sidewalk seating, and vodka drinking habit didn't help either...
I really have to hand it to Anon 3:44. That was an excellent post. I too was baffled by Sidamo doing well comment. I cannot imagine any restaurant/bar doing well on the west side unless there is a major draw. The east side's traffic is due to the fact that it has become a destination. Basically, I can walk to another spot if I do not like decor, music, menu, price, or people. On the west side, I am stuck with one choice on the west side. Who would take that chance unless the food is just that good.
For the life of me, I cannot figure out why would they do all that renovation only to close within a couple of months.
"If P and P had neighbors like the bars/restaurants on the east end, it might have had a better shot at drawing in more people."
Really? You honestly think that Granville Moore's was successful because of the neighbors? This is absurd. It was featured on the Food Network! Night after night, people roll down to the East end of H from all over the place. I doubt the high rise, low rent, apartments at the starburst intersection are a prime source of clientele for Begian beers and mussels. People come from both inside, but especially outside of the neighborhood to these establishments, and that is why the East end of H thrives.
The West end of H Street has plenty of fine people living there, Pap's just couldn't keep afloat and the newer, more prosperous businesses on the West end of H have not reached critical mass yet to compare with the so-called Atlas District, which is a destination with lots of consumer choice.
Leave the good neighbors of out of your silliness, please.
By 'neighbors' I did not mean the residents of the east end. I used 'neighbors' to refer to all of the surrounding businesses there, such as Granville Moores, Sticky Rice, Rock and Roll Hotel, etc. I apologize for not being clearer.
I also want to apologize to Anon 3:44. When I agreed that Sidamo was doing 'well,' I guess I meant that in the sense that they haven't had to close up shop. And you're right, staying afloat doesn't qualify as doing well. I don't have intimate knowledge of their finances, or the finances of any H St. business, and I don't have your small business experience/expertise, so it was foolish of me to comment at all. I didn't mean to irritate anyone. Again I apologize.
Didn't P&P feel like it had no originality (or soul) to it? Just a place where the put a bar, bought some liquor, some "fancy" chairs, and had staff that didn't really give the sense that they were excited about being there and seeing it work.
We went once, didn't enjoy it, and didn't go back. It was very similar to our experience at Phish Tea when we first moved into the neighborhood...How about that for showing how long we've been around? :)
Pap n Petey's was just kind of bland, even after the renovation, it was just a place to go drink but not much else. I'm actually surprised it lasted this long. The Ethiopian-owned market in the 1300 block was also a jumbled mess of boring, and Sweets and Treats was just kind of blah as well.
sometimes you need a bit of a gimmick. Look at the suckers shelling out $4 for cupcakes in Penn Quarter and Georgetown and Dupont, all because the stores have a hip image and rich buttercream frosting. tell me Sweets and Treats shouldn't have jumped on that bandwagon.
The fact that this pie store from Baltimore is getting so much buzz for its new location on H (pretty much across the street from a failed bakery: Sweets and Treats) shows how having the right gimmick can draw customers in. selling bland yellow cake that's barely a step above what you can buy at Safeway isn't going to bring in the dollars, but gourmet pies, sold by a guy with tattoos? that's gold jerry! gold, I tell ya!
let's face it most of the businesses that have managed to draw a crowd are those with a bit of a unique theme or gimmick: Rock and Roll Hotel, Granville's, Taylor, HCC, Sticky Rice, etc. all those places have struck a nice balance in appealing to a limited pool of customers.. I'm a failed small business owner myself and one of the hardest things to do is to get potential customers to a) notice you and b) make an effort to actually set foot in the business. the run of the mill places will continue to struggle until H truly becomes a destination and they can then feed off the residual foot traffic.
Jesse - Agree 100%. I live almost around the corner, and would have LOVED to have a place to just grab a beer and a burger some nights, and I tried to like it, but just couldn't. There was no real "feel" to it.
Taste of Jamaica has been around for about 3 years and I don't think they are about to close up. They have seating and carry out. A restaurant on the West end that seems to survive.
I stopped going to Paps a while ago due to certain people that worked there and the way i was treated. I am still sad to see it close.
It amazes me that a while back people where talking about supporting Pap and Petey's. Now we we have hindsight on their misfortune. There must be something going on here beside bad business as they did not last very long. I remember they used to use Frozen Tropics for announcements so it is only fair that they should use this outlet to tell us what really happened. I know I cannot be the only one that feel this way.
I would not compare a P&P to a Jamaican carryout. Those are two completely different types businesses. You may as well throw Murray's, Danny's, and the liquor store into the mix. The owner took a chance on a jazz model and it did not work out. That happens all the time in the restaurant business. I predict there will some 2010 causalities on the west side as some businesses do not have the capital to ride out the storm.
Man I hope it's just a short term thing cause the place has potential. I looked in the window today and the place looked like it was ready to open at any minute, it was 6:30 at the time.
It seemed like it was building a following albeit i haven't been in the place since probably the first week of July. That being said i was with a crowd and we dropped some serious cash and the place was packed i guess they needed that every night to keep the lights on and it wasn't happening often enough.
i suspect the renovations cost a bunch plus the rent on top of that did them end, not to mention the economic slow down and summer duldrums. Oddly i liked the place better before the renovations. I did like the new menu though, and i'm guessing that it required a substantial investment in kitchen equipment, but apparently not an exhaust fan cause the place always smelled like fried food, which was my biggest complaint about P&P. When you left there you'd smell like you just manned the grill for a 8 hour shift. Also, in my humble opinion the place never stayed true to it's Jazz and blues aesthetic that is proclamed on the website the stichk was it was named to honor a family member and his boy.
Still i hope that it will remain open, I think if it can just hold on a little longer it may become a success and Duke can continue enjoying his vodka Martins at his own place.
For something to work on H St., it can't be half-assed. People will travel down here for great mussels, a good band, a freak show, or the only put-put place in town. But they aren't coming down here for mediocre jazz at a sort of cheesy place. Jazz could work on H St., but you need the money and the vision to make it a top-notch place with great music that will draw jazz fans from around the area.
Although the western terminus of H Street is devoid of the fanfare and prosperity of the eastern terminus, you would be hard-pressed to find a serious business owner that would shy away from the area. It might not have the lure of the eastern terminus but does have a significantly higher customer base thanks to the finally-being-filled-with-wealthy-yupsters Senate Square, the soon-to-be-completed Loree Grand, and the SEC and surrounding businesses. It's ripe for the right sort of business...it's just a matter of proper packaging and marketing.
as a small business owner, it seems that p and p didn't do much promo to attract a crowd; however, being the solo bar on the west end of H is a challenge. it could have been a real neighborhood bar, but they put little effort in making patrons feel welcome and want to come back. it takes more than just making the place look more snazzy. drink specials, music (not necessarily live), and friendlier staff would've helped...
on another note i've been extremely disappointed by the sandwiches at Heidi's by NY Ave metro and don't plan on going back. talk about a place that doesn't seem to care, stale bread and one of the worst cheesesteak sandwiches i've ever had. my advice is to steer clear of that place... they're no Litteri's or Taylor or even Sidamo. i would even say Subway is much better and they don't charge nearly $8 for a bland sandwich, absolutely pathetic. my wife got her money back for the awful meatball sub she ordered. how do you screw up a meatball sub and cheesesteak and call your self a legit sandwich shop???
re: US marshals - they are there to execute the termination of P&P's lease to let the building owner take back full possession of the property. P&P's is truly no more as of today.
Like I had mentioned earlier small details such as clean glasses, plates and silverware goes a long way in making a restaurant/bar survive or be extinct. Details such as these reflect the kind of service and the state of the kitchen. Something P&P didn't pay too much attention to.
I thought Duke had brought in outside investors which was how he paid for the renovations and expanded the kitchen, but I guess they didn't have very deep pockets.
Frankly speaking there is nothing edible in IHOP, Jimmy T's and any of the diners around the city. It's just plain old tons of junk food, brimming with saturated fats and sugars, chemicals with zero nutritional value and no taste. At least Sticky rice and Granville moore has some nutritional value considering it's not fried food.
I think an old-style sit-in type diner/bar would be outstanding at that location. I know I would support it. 2 blocks away, too...sweet. And yes, I was a supporter of P&P's as well.
What about a strip club or hardware store? Heck, I'd even entertain the idea of a hub for this so called nonexistant communal market that has been languishing for years in their attempt to find a venue on or near h st. Or what about a blockbuster???? Good times!
just a random comment here: this week i took the x2 over to h and 13th from downtown, a trip i've only done in daylight before.
it took this vantage point for me to realize how DARK the streets were. places were open. liquor stores and bodegas were busy, but very very few lights were on. is this usual?
for a commercial corridor, this is crazy. whats the situation with lighting along h? lighting really needs to be addressed.
there's this fantastical "communal, community, farmer's, co-o" market that has been raising money for years in order to open up a spot on H street.
nothing.
i have no doubt that it's a bunch of lesbian granolas that just want an excuse to get together and talk crap in the guise of opening a community oriented, organic store on H.
they come in all colors, genders, and "non-profits".
Yeah - what is the story with the H Street Community Market?! I haven't heard squat since they had those fundraisers at Vegetate and Sidamo a couple of years ago. Even their website is out of date.
David B. would like a diner to open up in the 421 H St. place. I talked to him about it a few months ago.
re the comments, etc., the west end is actually a great place to do business that is resident oriented, many more houses are within an easy 5 to 10 minute walking distance to H Street when compared to the east end (which as someone pointed out, is reliant on non-neighborhood residents to drive business). And as the empty spaces fill in on the west end (as mentioned, Senate Square, Loree Grand, etc.) there will be even more population.
A jazz concept is out of synch with the opportunities on the west end. Plus, the reality is that residents don't go out as frequently, and if they do it isn't for entertainment like live music, it's for reasonably tasty, somewhat reasonably priced meals. (See my old "Richard's Rules for Restaurant-Based Revitalization" piece in my blog.)
And as mentioned in this thread, poorly executed concepts (the term in the comments was half-assed) aren't likely to succeed in any case.
The real problem, in my experience, and this is where Joe Englert has changed the dynamic, is that heretofore, most of the people opening businesses on H Street didn't know what they were doing. Then they would fail (and yes, Taste of Jamaica, which is a business with a track record and experience outside of H Street, has succeeded--as an exception that proves the rule, same with Sidamo, although they do have issues with profitability as discussed; note the Sova post about clothes-swapping, that certainly indicates a revenue issue...).
The problem is that for the most part, except for some people in this comment thread, people don't blame the business proprietor for a failure to execute, but the commercial district, in this case H Street, "for being a bad or impossible place" to locate a business.
Pap and Petey's was the worst place ever. I'm glad it's gone. When I was there, the bartender let in a homeless man and allowed him to beg for money! LAME! They had no food and ran out of Corona and white wine! Whatever!
Not to be discouraging but very enlightening article. Excerpts from http://smallbusinessanswers.yahoo.com/overrated
"1. Restaurants. Dining out and cooking are among Americans' favorite pastimes. But "restaurants are among the toughest businesses to run," says Donna Ettenson, vice president of the Association of Small Business Development Centers in Burke, Va.
Far too many people assume their culinary abilities will lead to success in the restaurant business. Instead, about 60% of restaurants close in the first three years, according to a 2003 study at Ohio State University. That's quite a bit higher than the roughly half of all start-ups that close in the first five years.
The reason: Restaurants typically have low profit margins and need strong managers who can run an ultra-tight ship through seasonal fluctuations and other struggles. Most people don't have that kind of intense managerial ability to pull it off. By the way, the pitfalls are quite similar for restaurants' cousin – the catering business. In other words, Chef Emptor."
The curse of 5th & H is what I warned the owner about. Bad PR, one shot of tequila and a beer for $16 and the bartender helping himself to my change? I did have high hopes for them to make it, but...
I seldom read or respond to blog comments. However, a friend asked me to read the comments on Pap and Petey’s closure and I stumbled across Anon 3:44’s comment on Sidamo. The challenge with this forum is the statements are so narrowly made.
Mimi and Kenfe choose to work in Sidamo to create a community and an atmosphere. They can hire others to work in the store, but they are a part of the positive, welcoming experience that is Sidamo.
I concur with Anon 4:56 none of us have intimate knowledge of the finances of small businesses on H St. so perhaps we all should refrain from assessing their profitability.
60 comments:
How sad! Didn't they just remodel?
Maybe Mr. Englert can work some of his hipster magic on the place and help out. All of his H street businesses are huge successes!
wow. very sad to hear that
Sad it did not work out. Pretty cool mixed crowd with a nice authentic neighborhood feel for a while there.
I did notice a sudden decline in clientele and service professionalism the last few times I was there. Was it under new management or ownership near the end?
Hope it won't be empty long.
That is sad news. Unfortunately, I think a big factor had to be location. The west end of H St. just doesnt have the foot traffic and number of establishments that the east end has.
I would not blame it on foot traffic. Sidamo is doing great...
Damn shame that, who wants to help us open a french toast restaurant in it's place?
Went on Friday night and they only had two types of bottled beer (with no beer on tap), wine at $10 a glass, and the menu had shrunk since the last time I was there. After one drink, we left saying it would probably be the last time we dropped in. Didn't think it was about to close though.
Sidamo is doing great but its a coffee shop that closes at 6 or 7 PM. Much different than a bar/lounge/restaurant that keeps later hours. If P and P had neighbors like the bars/restaurants on the east end, it might have had a better shot at drawing in more people.
A few things. I think most people on this blog have zero clue as to what makes a business successful. It's not always about how many people come through the door. That's a big part of it, but then I see these comments about how well Sidamo is doing, and I can tell you for a fact that they haven't even made money yet. What bothers me is the lack of knowledge by most people around here with what they think a successful business is.
Staying afloat is hardly doing well. What certainly helps Sidamo is the fact that they have low labor cost given that Kenfe and Mimi work a lot of hours there themselves. But you have to sell a hell of a lot of coffee to do well, and given the lack of foot traffic on H St right now, I can tell you that they're looking to the future.
I've been a small business consultant for 17 years, and I've worked with at least 7 or 8 independent coffee establishments from here to Richmond and Baltimore. Unless you have 200 people walking through your door every day, or unless you have a second or third revenue stream besides coffee, then you're just not making money.
There's clearly a lot more to it then that, but I'm not trying to teach small business 101.
All I'm saying is, I get irritated when I see people who have never even run a lemonade stand comment about who's doing well, and who isn't. There are a lot of businesses on H St that are just barely getting by, and most of those owners are in significant debt.
The long and short is that the western terminus of H Street NE needed a spacious "local" with a decent jukebox, consistent service, and a familiar atmosphere. We were instead provided with a cramped, rigid space with occasional jazz (a risky genre to introduce to a part of town that doesn't have anything other than yoga and coffee) and poor service. Duke's failure to advertise, open up the sidewalk seating, and vodka drinking habit didn't help either...
I really have to hand it to Anon 3:44. That was an excellent post. I too was baffled by Sidamo doing well comment. I cannot imagine any restaurant/bar doing well on the west side unless there is a major draw. The east side's traffic is due to the fact that it has become a destination. Basically, I can walk to another spot if I do not like decor, music, menu, price, or people. On the west side, I am stuck with one choice on the west side. Who would take that chance unless the food is just that good.
For the life of me, I cannot figure out why would they do all that renovation only to close within a couple of months.
"If P and P had neighbors like the bars/restaurants on the east end, it might have had a better shot at drawing in more people."
Really? You honestly think that Granville Moore's was successful because of the neighbors? This is absurd. It was featured on the Food Network! Night after night, people roll down to the East end of H from all over the place. I doubt the high rise, low rent, apartments at the starburst intersection are a prime source of clientele for Begian beers and mussels. People come from both inside, but especially outside of the neighborhood to these establishments, and that is why the East end of H thrives.
The West end of H Street has plenty of fine people living there, Pap's just couldn't keep afloat and the newer, more prosperous businesses on the West end of H have not reached critical mass yet to compare with the so-called Atlas District, which is a destination with lots of consumer choice.
Leave the good neighbors of out of your silliness, please.
By 'neighbors' I did not mean the residents of the east end. I used 'neighbors' to refer to all of the surrounding businesses there, such as Granville Moores, Sticky Rice, Rock and Roll Hotel, etc. I apologize for not being clearer.
I also want to apologize to Anon 3:44. When I agreed that Sidamo was doing 'well,' I guess I meant that in the sense that they haven't had to close up shop. And you're right, staying afloat doesn't qualify as doing well. I don't have intimate knowledge of their finances, or the finances of any H St. business, and I don't have your small business experience/expertise, so it was foolish of me to comment at all. I didn't mean to irritate anyone. Again I apologize.
Didn't P&P feel like it had no originality (or soul) to it? Just a place where the put a bar, bought some liquor, some "fancy" chairs, and had staff that didn't really give the sense that they were excited about being there and seeing it work.
We went once, didn't enjoy it, and didn't go back. It was very similar to our experience at Phish Tea when we first moved into the neighborhood...How about that for showing how long we've been around? :)
Pap n Petey's was just kind of bland, even after the renovation, it was just a place to go drink but not much else. I'm actually surprised it lasted this long. The Ethiopian-owned market in the 1300 block was also a jumbled mess of boring, and Sweets and Treats was just kind of blah as well.
sometimes you need a bit of a gimmick. Look at the suckers shelling out $4 for cupcakes in Penn Quarter and Georgetown and Dupont, all because the stores have a hip image and rich buttercream frosting. tell me Sweets and Treats shouldn't have jumped on that bandwagon.
The fact that this pie store from Baltimore is getting so much buzz for its new location on H (pretty much across the street from a failed bakery: Sweets and Treats) shows how having the right gimmick can draw customers in. selling bland yellow cake that's barely a step above what you can buy at Safeway isn't going to bring in the dollars, but gourmet pies, sold by a guy with tattoos? that's gold jerry! gold, I tell ya!
let's face it most of the businesses that have managed to draw a crowd are those with a bit of a unique theme or gimmick: Rock and Roll Hotel, Granville's, Taylor, HCC, Sticky Rice, etc. all those places have struck a nice balance in appealing to a limited pool of customers.. I'm a failed small business owner myself and one of the hardest things to do is to get potential customers to a) notice you and b) make an effort to actually set foot in the business. the run of the mill places will continue to struggle until H truly becomes a destination and they can then feed off the residual foot traffic.
Jesse - Agree 100%. I live almost around the corner, and would have LOVED to have a place to just grab a beer and a burger some nights, and I tried to like it, but just couldn't. There was no real "feel" to it.
Taste of Jamaica has been around for about 3 years and I don't think they are about to close up. They have seating and carry out. A restaurant on the West end that seems to survive.
I stopped going to Paps a while ago due to certain people that worked there and the way i was treated. I am still sad to see it close.
It amazes me that a while back people where talking about supporting Pap and Petey's. Now we we have hindsight on their misfortune. There must be something going on here beside bad business as they did not last very long. I remember they used to use Frozen Tropics for announcements so it is only fair that they should use this outlet to tell us what really happened. I know I cannot be the only one that feel this way.
I would not compare a P&P to a Jamaican carryout. Those are two completely different types businesses. You may as well throw Murray's, Danny's, and the liquor store into the mix. The owner took a chance on a jazz model and it did not work out. That happens all the time in the restaurant business. I predict there will some 2010 causalities on the west side as some businesses do not have the capital to ride out the storm.
anon 6:37 - your right. I was not trying to compare the two, just saying that there is a business(several actually) still around.
Man I hope it's just a short term thing cause the place has potential. I looked in the window today and the place looked like it was ready to open at any minute, it was 6:30 at the time.
It seemed like it was building a following albeit i haven't been in the place since probably the first week of July. That being said i was with a crowd and we dropped some serious cash and the place was packed i guess they needed that every night to keep the lights on and it wasn't happening often enough.
i suspect the renovations cost a bunch plus the rent on top of that did them end, not to mention the economic slow down and summer duldrums. Oddly i liked the place better before the renovations. I did like the new menu though, and i'm guessing that it required a substantial investment in kitchen equipment, but apparently not an exhaust fan cause the place always smelled like fried food, which was my biggest complaint about P&P. When you left there you'd smell like you just manned the grill for a 8 hour shift. Also, in my humble opinion the place never stayed true to it's Jazz and blues aesthetic that is proclamed on the website the stichk was it was named to honor a family member and his boy.
Still i hope that it will remain open, I think if it can just hold on a little longer it may become a success and Duke can continue enjoying his vodka Martins at his own place.
Martins or Martinis!
For something to work on H St., it can't be half-assed. People will travel down here for great mussels, a good band, a freak show, or the only put-put place in town. But they aren't coming down here for mediocre jazz at a sort of cheesy place. Jazz could work on H St., but you need the money and the vision to make it a top-notch place with great music that will draw jazz fans from around the area.
I never understood why they quit with the live bands. Jazz bands on Wednesdays were awesome. After that, I just got a bad vibe from that place.
I never understood why they quit with the live bands. Jazz bands on Wednesdays were awesome. After that, I just got a bad vibe from that place.
Live music costs money. And the benefits aren't always realized.
Although the western terminus of H Street is devoid of the fanfare and prosperity of the eastern terminus, you would be hard-pressed to find a serious business owner that would shy away from the area. It might not have the lure of the eastern terminus but does have a significantly higher customer base thanks to the finally-being-filled-with-wealthy-yupsters Senate Square, the soon-to-be-completed Loree Grand, and the SEC and surrounding businesses. It's ripe for the right sort of business...it's just a matter of proper packaging and marketing.
Just rode past on the X2 and there are a handful of people with two US Marshals outside of P&P's. Anyone know why?
Who's the owner of the P&P location?
David Bernhardt is the building owner.
as a small business owner, it seems that p and p didn't do much promo to attract a crowd; however, being the solo bar on the west end of H is a challenge. it could have been a real neighborhood bar, but they put little effort in making patrons feel welcome and want to come back. it takes more than just making the place look more snazzy. drink specials, music (not necessarily live), and friendlier staff would've helped...
on another note i've been extremely disappointed by the sandwiches at Heidi's by NY Ave metro and don't plan on going back. talk about a place that doesn't seem to care, stale bread and one of the worst cheesesteak sandwiches i've ever had. my advice is to steer clear of that place... they're no Litteri's or Taylor or even Sidamo. i would even say Subway is much better and they don't charge nearly $8 for a bland sandwich, absolutely pathetic. my wife got her money back for the awful meatball sub she ordered. how do you screw up a meatball sub and cheesesteak and call your self a legit sandwich shop???
You guys think an authentic kebab house would fare well on H Street, with and indoor buzkashi pitch?
re: US marshals - they are there to execute the termination of P&P's lease to let the building owner take back full possession of the property. P&P's is truly no more as of today.
Like I had mentioned earlier small details such as clean glasses, plates and silverware goes a long way in making a restaurant/bar survive or be extinct. Details such as these reflect the kind of service and the state of the kitchen. Something P&P didn't pay too much attention to.
I thought Duke had brought in outside investors which was how he paid for the renovations and expanded the kitchen, but I guess they didn't have very deep pockets.
I wish they would put in a breakfast/diner type place. Like a Jimmy T's. (is that the name of the place on East Capitol?)
I don't know who "they" would be... but maybe someone reading this blog has an itch to open an H-Street IHOP.
(Disclaimer: I am not suggesting we actually put an IHOP on H.)
There is a diner opening up on Bladensburg Road just a few blocks off H Street. It's close to the Argonaut and right across the street from Jimmy V's.
There is a Cheescake Factory opening in Union Station.
(Fine Print: Just Kidding)
Olive Garden anyone??? yummy salads and breadsticks
Frankly speaking there is nothing edible in IHOP, Jimmy T's and any of the diners around the city. It's just plain old tons of junk food, brimming with saturated fats and sugars, chemicals with zero nutritional value and no taste. At least Sticky rice and Granville moore has some nutritional value considering it's not fried food.
I think an old-style sit-in type diner/bar would be outstanding at that location. I know I would support it. 2 blocks away, too...sweet. And yes, I was a supporter of P&P's as well.
This would be a great site for a nail salon or barbershop. The west cannot support a bar at this time. End of story.
What about a strip club or hardware store? Heck, I'd even entertain the idea of a hub for this so called nonexistant communal market that has been languishing for years in their attempt to find a venue on or near h st.
Or what about a blockbuster???? Good times!
just a random comment here:
this week i took the x2 over to h and 13th from downtown, a trip i've only done in daylight before.
it took this vantage point for me to realize how DARK the streets were. places were open. liquor stores and bodegas were busy, but very very few lights were on. is this usual?
for a commercial corridor, this is crazy. whats the situation with lighting along h? lighting really needs to be addressed.
anon 5:56,
i'd certainly be more inclined to go to a bar on the western edge of h. closer for me. why would you suggest that location couldnt support a bar?
yes, West end of H totally needs more strip clubs. I will totally be hands on in helping push this.
H street will have new lights once the tracks and eletrical systems are up graded.This part of the project will not commence until next year sometime.
Projected completion date for sidewalks, lighting, trees etc. for Phase I (which is north and south sides of H between 3rd and 7th) is March 2010.
This would be a great site for a nail salon or barbershop.
I vote for check-cashing joint, and maybe a Cricket store.
They took a wonderful spot on Barracks row and put in a Cricket store...what a waste.
there's this fantastical "communal, community, farmer's, co-o" market that has been raising money for years in order to open up a spot on H street.
nothing.
i have no doubt that it's a bunch of lesbian granolas that just want an excuse to get together and talk crap in the guise of opening a community oriented, organic store on H.
they come in all colors, genders, and "non-profits".
be careful with these 'players'....
Yeah - what is the story with the H Street Community Market?! I haven't heard squat since they had those fundraisers at Vegetate and Sidamo a couple of years ago. Even their website is out of date.
David B. would like a diner to open up in the 421 H St. place. I talked to him about it a few months ago.
re the comments, etc., the west end is actually a great place to do business that is resident oriented, many more houses are within an easy 5 to 10 minute walking distance to H Street when compared to the east end (which as someone pointed out, is reliant on non-neighborhood residents to drive business). And as the empty spaces fill in on the west end (as mentioned, Senate Square, Loree Grand, etc.) there will be even more population.
A jazz concept is out of synch with the opportunities on the west end. Plus, the reality is that residents don't go out as frequently, and if they do it isn't for entertainment like live music, it's for reasonably tasty, somewhat reasonably priced meals. (See my old "Richard's Rules for Restaurant-Based Revitalization" piece in my blog.)
And as mentioned in this thread, poorly executed concepts (the term in the comments was half-assed) aren't likely to succeed in any case.
The real problem, in my experience, and this is where Joe Englert has changed the dynamic, is that heretofore, most of the people opening businesses on H Street didn't know what they were doing. Then they would fail (and yes, Taste of Jamaica, which is a business with a track record and experience outside of H Street, has succeeded--as an exception that proves the rule, same with Sidamo, although they do have issues with profitability as discussed; note the Sova post about clothes-swapping, that certainly indicates a revenue issue...).
The problem is that for the most part, except for some people in this comment thread, people don't blame the business proprietor for a failure to execute, but the commercial district, in this case H Street, "for being a bad or impossible place" to locate a business.
That makes it doubly hard to improve.
h street "community" market is b.s.
that's the deal.
what are you doing these days, richard?
I vote for strip clubs, smoke shops, and cell phone stores.
Pap and Petey's was the worst place ever. I'm glad it's gone. When I was there, the bartender let in a homeless man and allowed him to beg for money! LAME! They had no food and ran out of Corona and white wine! Whatever!
Not to be discouraging but very enlightening article. Excerpts from
http://smallbusinessanswers.yahoo.com/overrated
"1. Restaurants. Dining out and cooking are among Americans' favorite pastimes. But "restaurants are among the toughest businesses to run," says Donna Ettenson, vice president of the Association of Small Business Development Centers in Burke, Va.
Far too many people assume their culinary abilities will lead to success in the restaurant business. Instead, about 60% of restaurants close in the first three years, according to a 2003 study at Ohio State University. That's quite a bit higher than the roughly half of all start-ups that close in the first five years.
The reason: Restaurants typically have low profit margins and need strong managers who can run an ultra-tight ship through seasonal fluctuations and other struggles. Most people don't have that kind of intense managerial ability to pull it off. By the way, the pitfalls are quite similar for restaurants' cousin – the catering business. In other words, Chef Emptor."
The curse of 5th & H is what I warned the owner about. Bad PR, one shot of tequila and a beer for $16 and the bartender helping himself to my change? I did have high hopes for them to make it, but...
I seldom read or respond to blog comments. However, a friend asked me to read the comments on Pap and Petey’s closure and I stumbled across Anon 3:44’s comment on Sidamo. The challenge with this forum is the statements are so narrowly made.
Mimi and Kenfe choose to work in Sidamo to create a community and an atmosphere. They can hire others to work in the store, but they are a part of the positive, welcoming experience that is Sidamo.
I concur with Anon 4:56 none of us have intimate knowledge of the finances of small businesses on H St. so perhaps we all should refrain from assessing their profitability.
I think P & P was a bad idea. Sidamos sucks.
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