Here is a zoning key (click for a larger version, or download the pdf).
The zoning is C-M-1 (low bulk commercial & light manufacturing) & C-M-2 (medium bulk commercial and light manufacturing). There isn't any housing that close by (the R-4 [R-1-B is single-family detached dwellings. R-4 & R-3 indicate row dwellings & flats & R-5-B is low density apartments] zone right there is the cemetery). All other residential zones are separated from the area by industrial barriers or railroad tracks. Download the appropriate zone map (7) here.
This is a cut-out from the zoning map. LO indicates the Landgon Overlay.
Follow West Virginia until you are north of Mt. Olivet Cemetery (between 17th & the circle you see on the map where West Virginia hits New York). That is the proposed location.
See the Google satellite image here.
NBC4 Reports
49 comments:
I agree with councilman Thomas...spread them around the District.
When these businesses had their land seized by the city against their will they were promised they'd be allowed to start up again in a location all together, like what they had before. That's why they were successful - patrons could go from one club to another and that block became known as a destination for that form of entertainment.
The city needs to keep it's promise.
i say put them on hillman's street.
a tiny strip of west va. ave.? what's the nunber block. the ony place i can think of in that area is bordered by several homes and a school
I don't savor the thought of drunken patrons driving 15 over the speed limit back down W. Virginia through our n'hood to get home. I'm sure some will arrive via NY Ave but some will travel to W. Virginia and then out to the clubs, right through Trinidad.
I wonder if it's possible to make West Virginia a dead end, essentially re-routing patrons to some other, busier street like N. Capitol? I don't know what other industry is out there at the proposed site.
Based on the map from NBC4 it looks like the Map of 2200 W Virginia Ave Ne Washington, DC 20002-1844, US">2200 block to me. This is in northern Ivy City.
I say put them in ward one.
right on 14th street!
Or on Hillman's block.
Either one.
Ok, thanks Inked for posting the maps. My blocking off W Va ave is DOA...dumb on arrival.
The city needs to compensate Ward 5 for doing this.
Hey, sorry for filling the blog with comments. That's practically across the street from Abdo's proposed development. Now, he presumably has some clout. If they do this he might just sell his land. I wonder where he stands on this?
Hillman, are you sure you can't take one for the team and host these things over your way? ;-)
WOWAWEEWA!! you can bring nice dancers to my block!! now my seester will have close walk to work and lunchtime at home with me :)
also, fake borat please stop making interweb post with my name. i dont like!
the real borat
I've worked with Abdo Development on the Senate Square project, so I reached out to Jim Abdo and his project finance guy to give them the heads-up. I'm sure that they will have an opinion on having the clubs open up so close to their proposed NY Avenue Gateway project.
Best,
Alan Kimber
Commissioner, ANC 6C05
I'm getting kind of sick of the conservative, NIMBY opinions of most of the people who move into the city. The area in which they are proposing this in an industrial setting. This is a very good location for both strip clubs and for normal clubs. Noise issues should not be a problem in such a setting. Also, all of these businesses took a big hit so that virginians can have their baseball team. The loss of these mostly gay clubs were a huge hit to the gay community, ESPECIALLY the black gay community. They need to be given the opportunity to open again. The issues such as parking, trash and patron issues are VASTLY overstated. In fact the clubs have a vested interest in making the areas NICER than industries do. certainly better than they are now.
whatever, eric. there were other business that got screwed too, you know. it wasn't all about the poor little GLBT community. the city should relocate those other business as well. they had to pick up and find new places on their own. why the GLBT community gets such special attention is beyond me.
virginia put up IT'S baseball team in dc, so i say put the GLBT clubs in virgina. how's that for ya?
the location they are proposing for the club that really affected the "black gay community" is not apropos, considering the plans they have for the area. frankly, it's not apropos for any club, period.
i'm tired of folks that keep expecting to be treated sooooooo special, when they're really not.
Eric- you and I know most of those Clubs were sex clubs.. Which contributes to the alarming rate of HIV and other STD in the Black community. I say keep those types of behavior in your private homes.
eric
i like that you offer sexxy time of gay peoples, but then real borat seester have no job.
maybe think of other business for to help her?
They're not expecting to be treated special. They're expecting to be treated the way the District government promised they'd be treated.
the government said they'd be treated special. that's bullcrap.
i want to be treated special too!
in other cities, eminent domain victims don't get their hands held.
they get paid and pronto!
the district was just making idle promises to get the area revitalized and get baseball to dc.
those clubs are going to have to bring a lawsuit against the government to be able to get help to move ANYWHERE. trust me.
The issue is that this area is rapidly on its way to not being an industrial area--the entire "triangle" on the SW side of the intersection of NY Ave and Bladensburg is slated to be developed into a mixed-use project, including a very substantial affordable housing component.
Also, clustering clubs ("straight" or "gay") is just a bad idea. Spreading clubs out lessens the likelihood of adverse effects on the neighborhood (and yes, there are some).
Oh, and I'm far from conservative.
Finally, I really wish we could discuss issues like this without tripping off into the realm of "it's a racial thing", "it's new residents trampling long-time residents" and GLBT-bashing (or any other group for that matter). I'm not advocating mind-policing or political correctness, but it is possible to have a healthy dialogue and still show others the respect they deserve.
Best,
Alan Kimber
Commissioner, ANC 6C05
who cares:
"the government said they'd be treated special. that's bullcrap."
so take it up with your elected officials who made the promises, not those to whom the promises were made.
"those clubs are going to have to bring a lawsuit against the government to be able to get help to move ANYWHERE."
then i hope they win, and stick it to the district hard. obviously it's hard to imagine how they'd win if those promises aren't in the form of a legally binding contract; but i still hope so, because i believe that people should be held to their promises. i know that's a bizarre concept in this modern age, where people don't feel the tiniest bit bad about lying to get what they want, but i'm funny that way.
alan kimber:
"Finally, I really wish we could discuss issues like this without tripping off into the realm of "it's a racial thing", "it's new residents trampling long-time residents" and GLBT-bashing (or any other group for that matter). I'm not advocating mind-policing or political correctness, but it is possible to have a healthy dialogue and still show others the respect they deserve."
sometimes, though, alan, racial things/new residents trampling long-time residents/GLBT-bashing are what's going on. if that's what's going on, it's appropriate to call it what it is.
For all those that asked why I don't host these clubs on my street.....
If you'd assist me in getting my house rezoned as commercial, doubling it's value, I'd be glad to host one of these clubs. But I get to pick the dancers.
As for them being sex clubs, I can't say I was a regular customer but quite often they were mostly sources of titillation for straight people who want to see 'the gays' and for women who couldn't see naked men other places.
And if I'm not mistaken there were regular police patrols to make sure there wasn't sex for sale.
Alan - I have to beg to differ on the value of grouping like attractions. The whole idea of an entertainment district is that you can cab there, go from club to club, then cab back. And if you are bored by the selection of dancers at one club you simply go next door. Having them spread out makes this much more difficult to do. It's no longer a destination.
I don't know enough about this site to say if it's good or not, but the city does owe these groups. They specifically told these business owners they would be allowed to relocate AS A GROUP.
And the city owes them beyond just this seizure. They located down there originally because they were tormented everywhere else they went, back when police used to raid gay bars and torment gay bar patrons. They were essentially forced into the least desireable area, and they made a go of it for decades.
The city created this block in large part because it allowed it's police force to treat gay businesses and people like crap for decades, and it allowed some residents to do the same, blocking any gay clubs (nude dancing or otherwise) from opening without a huge hassle and constant fight.
They aren't being treated special, and they aren't asking for special treatment. That block was a special entertainment district before the city seized it, and if you break it up and don't allow them to regroup as such you've seriously diminished the value of their businesses. I can't think of any other group of businesses down there that could have made that claim.
the site that has been tentatively chosen only allows for ONE club.
so... if one club makes it there, where are the others going to go?
obviously, not nearby.
so if you want to group your clubs together, keep on looking for a different space that will allow groping, i mean grouping.
so, if you're so intent on grouping, you obviously aren't happy with the site.
I don't want any clubs there, man. The place is trying to redevelop with housing and retail.
Clubs are only open at night, and it's a total waste of space for all the new residences planned across the street, and a couple of blocks away. It's just not cool - gay, straight, or whatever.
Even if the clubs sued DC, they'd only be able construct one club on that site. Is anyone familiar with the site? It's actually pretty small, and the other properties abutting it have been sold and are slated for re-development with lots of housing. The grouping thing doesn't fit in that location.
DC should relocate them, but clearly, it's not a great fit right there. DC is retarded. Once they see all the plans for that area, it's a non-starter.
Seriously, people need to be looking for a different area.
People, please!
A gay nightclub near the proliferation of new businesses and residences is going to be fantastic for future development!
It'll attact lots of gay residents, which we didn't have over in SW. Everyone knows that gay men and women have massive amounts of taste and disposable income. The area will be fabulous! It will, quite frankly, THRIVE! Just like our old neighborhood of Dupont Circle. Don't you see? It's a blessing!
And I really do hope they keep those hunky cops watching out for "illicit sex" sex in our clubs. I've met some of the most forceful policemen (and I mean that in a WAWAWEEWA kind of way :o) patrolling our little "home rule".
It'll be great, you'll see. The area really has so much potential! There's even a little flower shop nearby!
I noticed the subsequent blog posting about the yoga studio. I could not help but of one solution to this string:
nude yoga
oh yeah, those gay strip clubs did a whole lot for that old area of SE. NOT! The desolation of the area was why the area was condemned for the baseball stadium.
I don't remember the DC gov promising anything. I remember DC paying huge bucks to the property owners, and I remember Jim Graham making promises.
The DC Politics Hour w/ Kojo & Jonetta is going to cover this topic today. They said on the ad this morning that "residents were fighting back." And on the web they've got "The political brawl over Gentleman's clubs." So I'm looking forward to hearing that one.
http://wamu.org/programs/kn/
anonymous 6:40AM: you're talking nonsense. where did anyone say that the gay clubs "did a whole lot for that whole area of SE"? what _was_ said was that the reason the gay clubs were in "that whole area of SE" was because that's the only place they were allowed to be without getting harassed, or even physically assaulted, in the past by police and other good citizens of this town, just for being gay. they were basically driven into that neighborhood. and now other folks here are saying they can't even have that kind of arrangement anymore -- but they're not bigoted, no sir, why, some of their best friends are gay.
my neighbor is gay, and he doesn't even want these clubs nearby. so.. i wouldn't categorize not wanting a club in your neighborhood as GLBT bashing.
i think some people just want to add some drama into their lives.
my neighbor is gay, and he doesn't even want these clubs nearby. so.. i wouldn't categorize not wanting a club in your neighborhood as GLBT bashing.
I'm not racist. I have black friends!
that's not my point.
look, i'll have him post on this board that he doesn't want clubs in the area.
what will you say then?
a gay bashing other gays, maybe he's not really gay?
freaks.
I wasn't saying that calling things how they are is wrong--I was talking about how sometimes things are stated as absolutes--"everyone's against this because of the race of the person". Phrased this way, you're saying that everyone on this board is racist, which I think is not the case.
On GLBT bashing, I was referring to comments by some other people along the lines of "it wasn't all about the poor little GLBT community". I've also seen worse here and elsewhere.
Maybe my reaction to the comments was a little extreme, but I do think my point holds in many instances.
Best,
Alan Kimber
ANC Commissioner, 6C05
"that's not my point.
look, i'll have him post on this board that he doesn't want clubs in the area.
what will you say then?"
What I will say then is that a single individual does not represent a population. Simple statistics. Using him against the accusation, right or wrong, that you are expressing a homophobic sentiment, is absolutely improper and, in of itself, somewhat homophobic because you are unable to defend your statement on its own ground but pulling some single gay guy who is then supposed to speak for all of us. It is exactly the same thing as making a statement that might, rightly or wrongly, be interpreted as racist, and then deflecting criticism because you know one black guy who has the same opinion.
I'm not accusing you or anyone else of being homophobic--but this does take on some anti-GLBT tendencies. Fundamentally, what are DC residents who are queer supposed to do? These venues weren't just strip clubs, they were cultural gathering centers for a group of people who were facing harassment everywhere else. We need somewhere to go and we are owed somewhere to go.
And for the record, I am a resident of this area.
I'm not sure how relevant it is, but I'm gay.
Gayer than a certain fundamentalist TV preacher's fannypack. Gayer that Gay Gayerson. So gay that I dream in black and white for the first few minutes, only so that I can gay it up and force my dream into splendiforous gay technicolor.
Ok, maybe not that gay. But pretty gay nonetheless.
Strip clubs have the same impact on an area as other types of clubs. If it's a well run club, the impact is mitigated somewhat. If not, it's more of a problem.
The fact that their entertainment is naked people dancing rather than, say, someone singing live music shouldn't make a difference.
If we're ok with all the live music venues on H grouping together in a couple of blocks as a destination entertainment zone I'm not sure why we are all atwitter about strip clubs doing the same thing.
Yes, there are negatives to having any club in your neighborhood. There is an increase in drunk driving. There are parking issues. Sometimes there are trash issues. These are legitimate issues. And to express those issues as concerns as long as you are willing to show the same fervor for other types of alcohol businesses doesn't make you anti-gay.
But of FAR more negative impact on a community are the poorly run corner groceries stores that so few people ever protest. So if you're going to protest a strip club, you ought to be out protesting the corner stores that sell singles and otherwise aren't good neighbors.
At least strip clubs (and other live performance clubs) don't sell singles and otherwise cater to street crime and street drinking populations.
And like it or not this is a special situation. The city really does owe these folks a chance to regroup as a group if they choose to do so.
I can't speak to the pros or cons of locating at this site since I'm only vaguely familiar with the current site condition and the plans for changes. But I'm willing to bet there are more than a few poorly run liquor stores and corner stores selling singles in the immediate vicinity. If people are going to protest a strip club, they need to be out protesting other things too.
And they need to think about applying these same standards to other clubs that are more suited to their personal tastes.
Last... we live in a major city, for better and for worse. There are clubs of all types in major cities. Yes, we should show care in where they locate to mitigate impact on neighbors. But they have to go somewhere. Otherwise, once we start banning clubs and other uses that have even the slightest impact on others then pretty soon we've got nothing left at all.
"What I will say then is that a single individual does not represent a population."
well, that goes for you too, doesn't it?
for the record, i don't want any clubs in that area. gay, straight, whatever. and i wish they would get rid of dream, or whatever it's called that stands nearby.
i think some people on this board are trying to turn this into a homophobic thing, and it's not.
like i said, some people just don't have enough drama in their lives.
sheesh!
hillman,
i cannot believing how happy you are! this is good for neighborhood!
i wish i too can be so happy to dream in technicolor!
i want to congratulate you on your happiness and invite you my house to make my seester happy like you.
she's verrrr niiiiice...
It's 2007. I don't think anyone really gives two bits about who is gay and who isn't. I think the concern here is about trying to get a neighborhood on track.
A cluster of clubs there can't happen, because there's only one lot left for that kind of thing. So the clustering argument is out the window. As such, wouldn't that space be great for a Whole Foods, or something relevant to residents?
It's about usage, not about all the ridiculous arguments and sidetrackings you all are presenting here.
As for me, I'd like a Trader Joe's there, if it would fit. We need services there, not clubs, roller skating rinks, or museums.
We'd all love a Trader Joes or Whole Foods, but I think that's unrealistic. Apparently they can't be talked into 3rd and H NE, which is probably viewed as a much more desireable location for grocery, so I'm doubting West Virginia Ave has much of a chance, at least in the foreseeable future.
Again, I don't know anything about the site, but if there's room for a large grocery there's probably room for half a dozen strip clubs.
And to clarify, I'm not arguing for or against this particular site. I'm just arguing for their right to relocate somewhere where they can continue their business.
But I do think your idea that it's 2007 and no one cares about gay or straight is overly optimistic.
Just ask Be Bar's owners if it matters if you are gay or straight when you try to get a liquor license in parts of DC. I'm not one to automatically assume people are discriminating, but we're clearly not beyond the point of discrimination against gay people in DC.
On a different note, does anyone know any more detail? How many clubs are we talking about? Is it just the ones from the ballpark zone? Is that all of them, or just the four or so that sat right there next to each other?
Wow...the whole Borat thing is SO OLD and dorky. At least do Ladka from Taxi and you can be considered retro.
Again, this is surely an issue of anti Gay bias. The fact that the owners or Wet/Edge are having a better reception in the community by changing from male dancers to female dancers shows it. Also, one commenter mentioned that they were "sex" clubs and increased the rate of AIDS and HIV. WTF? Last time I heard that was in the 80s when people were blaming the gays for AIDs.
I think these clubs can be good neighbors. The owners of Wet/Edge seemed to keep the block they were on pretty clean. I used to goto the EDGE alot, and I saw their security making sure the immediate area was clean. The city owes these owners and the GBLT scene the right to reopen their businesses.
nobody is saying they shouldn't be able to relocate their businesses, dork.
it's a question of where. one person wants clustering, another doesn't, etc., etc., ad nauseum.
i personally would like to see them all on h street. it's seems somewhat more appropriate than hiding in some tiny little spot in a space that abutts major residential-to-be.
quit being so dramatic, and calling it bias. it's not.
it's just that no one is on the ball to find a decent place to relocate. frankly, there are some great places in anacostia, and east of H street that could work, but nobody is being proactive enough to look into it.
if i had to guess, i'd say you were in your early twenties, because you haven't been living in dc for over two decades and dealing with the government and occasionally obnoxious residents.
get w/the program and work towards a solution - not creating a bigger problem than it needs to be.
Eric is just 'crying wolf' because he has some kind of agenda.
Ignore him, and maybe he'll go away.
Wasn't it said on the Kojo show that the club is Nexus? If so, the club is straight, and the old club site wasn't seized for the ballpark. It was sold to developers for boogoo bucks. Graham admitted that only about 1/2 of the clubs were taken for the ball field. The rest were sold to the highest bidder.
Yes. That is what I understood as well. Most were sold to the highest bidder, for an enormous profit.
A lot of the reports on this stuff seem to conflict with each other. One report I saw (the Blade article linked to above) identified the club seeking to located on West Virginia as Wet/Edge, which used to be a gay club, but will reopen as a striaght club. NBC4 reported that it would be multiple clubs moving to the West Virginia location, but Graham says the clubs would not be clustering in a certain location.
meester hillman say he is rezoning for clubs, and will pick sexxy time dancers.
so we have no problems anymore.
except for meester eric who feels everybody hate him because he is a happy.
next topic!
It is indeed getting confusing. Apparently there isn't to be clustering of the displaced clubs?
Basically I support pretty much anything reasonable that those displaced by eminent domain want. If they want clustering, then so be it. If they don't, so be it.
If it suits their business interests to turn straight, then so be it. That makes me a bit sad since straight strip clubs are a dime a dozen, but that's their choice. But it does sortof negate the whole idea of them having a special place because of decades of crap behavior by the city because they were gay.
But I would limit such special treatment to those displaced by eminent domain or forced to sell to the city.
If you sold for a jillion dollars to a private developer then your payoff was in that massive sale.
why it has to be straight, gay, black, white, latino, asian...
why not one club where everyone can dance?
why we have to make special categories?
that is stupid.
everybody join hands and make a big hug!
america so confusing!
in my country, my neighbor bring pig to dance hall. i dance with her. she kind of smelly, but has good moves.
if my neighbor come here, he need to make pig club?
why people make so much issue when they have so much?
come to kazakhstan! you have no sperate place for pigs, happy people, transvesterites, or the ones that have penis but hide it.
in america, everyone get attention. too much attention.
they think they are special.
take trip to other country and see how happy you all are!
it's better to do it now before you are dying.
americans so stupid.
If Wet/Edge is really changing from male to female dancers, it doesn't really say much about the "respect" it has for the gay community. It's a business. So...... forget all this gay loyalty stuff, it's all smoke and mirrors. The $$ talk.
I agree with the other poster: Hillman should host nude male dancers at his house. That would be cool. Hehe, huh, hehehe.... she would finally see some weenage!
My wife, that is. Hehehe.. she'd finally see some weenage!
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