I think the only thing that can be done is to come down hard on even petty crime to keep these losers off the street - that's the only way the surrounding community will be safer. The city owes the law-abiding citizens that much, more than wasting money on social services programs that fail to change behavior most of the time.
As for younger children, perhaps a harder line should be taken in respect to either truancy or parental failure - the earlier these kids are removed from that environment where they pick up bad habits that will follow them forever, the better for everyone. Obviously the parent or grandparents that are raising most of these kids are not getting the job done.
Um, remove the children and place them where? Our foster system isn't exactly perfect, and older kids [and I mean ones who are still pretty little] have a way of not getting adopted.
Lanier says they're pulling out all the stops? Then why can community members point out the houses that sell drugs, while the police just ignore it? I get sick of the constant parade of people buying drugs- especially when the dealer's kids are playing out front.
I think it's more or less universally acknowledged that the "housing project" approach to helping the poor is an utter and abject failure. The results speak for themselves. There are quite a few housing projects in the vicinity of H street (Langston Terrace, Carver Terrace, the project just west of 15th, etc). I think it would be hugely beneficial for the neighborhood, and the inhabitants of those projects, if they were redeveloped along the lines of similar projects around the baseball stadium, or the planned redevelopment of Sursum Corda. As long as those projects exist in their current form (i.e., concentrations of abject poverty), it's hard to see how other proposed solutions will amount to much of anything.
Last week there were Security Alarm (APX) guys in the nabe. They were/are offering all free equipment and intallation. I think the monthly service fee is 39.99.
But more importantly, I went to Sticky Rice on Saturday night and my cucumber didn't look like Japanese cucumber. Shouldn't there be a month long cucumber course before they open.
Mose said we need to "redevelop housing projects" - Give me a break! You yourself said they don't work and then turn around and said we need to put more money into them. You don't think Sursm Corda or Carva Terrace weren't idealistic and nice new dwelings when they were built and now look at them. People don't appreciate what they don't pay for add that on top of laziness and your "redevelopment" will be the next Susum Corda in 10 years - maybe 20 if we're lucky. I'm really tired of all this mess and moved in blindly optimistic and very green 4 years ago thinking that a gentrified neighborhood with middle class people moving in was going to be a good thing (for both sides). Now I'm about ready to say, "I have a good house in Trinidad that will soon be going Sec. 8 if you know anybody on welfare with 5 children that's interested in renting it - better jump now while the place is still clean. I'm having a very difficult time these days "keeping hope alive" for myself much less hope for others. So I'm moving west across the river and becoming a Republican!
the paper has said a couple of times that the triple murder was the result of a beef that started in a club. anybody have any idea what establishment that was?
No, the paper has said several times that other sources have theorized that the triple-murder probably came out of an argument that might have started in a club. This morning's article, for instance, says ". . .after an argument that might have begun in a nearby nightclub."
If you have something more concrete, saying they definitely did start beefing at a club, please provide a link. Thanks in advance.
Someone commented on an earlier thread here that they witnessed a ruckus outside XII on Saturday night that involved the police, but that's a far jump from saying this is where these muders were inititaded, so I want to be careful about starting gossip here. Saying that, can anyone else elaborate on this rumored ruckus outside XII?
i don't have anything more concrete and i would hope the post would clarify. as you note, they have published several times that 'sources' have speculated there was a beef that could have originated in a club. since they have repeated this theory, these sources are most likely police who are investigating the case.
Thanks THO, I was afraid that this was going to spawn into some anti club thing. Lives are lost. Neighborhood confidence, if not shattered, is at least bruised. We need t to come together in Trinidad. There is a walk through with the Mayor that was set up. Although it's during the middle of the day; it would be a great chance for citizens to come together and voice their opinions to the District's chief executive.
If citizens can't make that meeting there are several opportunities to get involved either with their ANCs and or at the PSA Meetings.
Maybe an Orange Hat patrol is needed. Maybe police going door to door providing information about how residents can give tip anonymously would help.
As much as I would love to run away sometimes, this is home and I need to make the most of it.
Responding to Anon 8:49's comment: I don't think an all-enforcement approach is going to work, though I'd love to see more enforcement of littering laws, laws against nuisance properties, and of course any criminal statutes. So then, what would work? The councilman bemoaned the culture of violence. I heard a proposal a while back that would probably yield a decent return on the buck: High-quality, free child-care for low-income children. I think this would have two major benefits: 1. It would free up mothers or whoever is caring for small children--those who want to work--to go out and work or get training w/out worrying about who would take care of the kids. 2. it would take the kids out of the environment that instills the culture of violence in them for many hours of the day...exposing them to a different way of living.
It would be a huge expense, yes. But what is the alternative? Success and failure for individuals, cities, and nations in this century is going to be determined by how well human capital is developed. If you look at human capital in DC like you would regular capital, today's approach is basically like taking 1/3 of your assets and just throwing them out the window, instead of trying to develop them so that they can yield a return. It's worse, actually, because the city gets a negative return thanks to all the services that have to be provided for these people who are abandoned early in life.
As Inked pointed out, pulling all these children out of their families by force isn't going to solve the problem. Law enforcement isn't going to solve it--it may solve "our" problem to an extent--but it's not going to solve "the" problem. The only way to change the culture would be to offer an economic incentive for parents to bring their kids to a safe place where they can learn a different way of life. It would be a huge investment but I think it would yield even bigger returns.
Redevelopment (as in razing and rebuilding) those pubic housing areas might be OK, but the problem is the type of people that live in low-income housing - there are a lot of decent folks, but there is still a way higher-than-average percentage of people that are just trash, and unfortunately the lowest common denominator rules in big properties like that.
However, there is a way to address problem residents - eviction. Unfortunately, DC's rental laws make this very difficult and very expensive to the owners. If landlords had an easier time booting problem residents, or even people who aren't problems themselves but have kids or guests who are, you'd see some of these communities improve fairly rapidly.
such harsh and cruel comments, even for you gentrifying types. these past couple of weeks have truly been tragic and horrifyingly depressing. you would think we're in baghdad with these kinds of numbers. its scary, and not for the reasons i've heard thus far. there is so much wealth in this city it's crazy - yet young black men are so marginalized and segregated in impoverished neighborhoods that we only seem to recognize them when something like this happens.
yeah, i know, personal responsibility is definitely an issue but its time to start looking at the larger powers at work here (political, social, and economic disenfranchisement; lack of sustainable, blue collar jobs; lack of resources and opportunities to higher education / or vocational training).
From a psychological perspective, the "beef" in all of these incidents fundamentally has nothing to do with craps games, club brawls, or parking spots..and everything to do with malice, self hate, and brainwash.
From a sociological perspective, the elements underlying all of this madness are so complex and intertwined that attempting to reform one will only exacerbate the severity of another. Some of these kids haven't had even the most remote exposure to the principles of right/wrong.
When we had Marion Barry there were loads of make-work jobs around and black folks controlled all the levers of local government (and still basically does) - and did that do anything at all for these 'disenfranchised' young men? Of course not, because that's not the real problem...even if there were more blue-collar jobs around, most of these yahoos aren't even qualified for those. It's simple - get yourself through high school, don't get knocked up or knock anybody else up, stay out of trouble with the law and you have a pretty good chance of having a middle-class life. Unfortunately, we have far too many people in this town that fail on multiple counts above, and they and their children suffer accordingly, as does the community that has to support them.
I've lived in three major US cities in my life, and DC takes the cake as far as the victim/"I need the government to take care of me" mentality goes. If you pin all your troubles on external forces and at the same time expect some external force to come riding to the rescue, you'll go absolutely nowhere. I can't think of a single historical example of some ethnic minority in any country became equal with the majority by sitting around and waiting for some government Santa to make everything right.
The people that succeed in life are those that work at it, and that's true across any racial line.
Anon 1:52 -- I think there are a couple of reasons why people are not very willing to look at deeper, root causes and long-term solutions:
1. Long-term solutions are just that: long-term. People want to debate and decide upon and pursue ideas that will improve things in the short-term. The promise of eventually feeling safe in your neighborhood in ten years, maybe, isn't enough; people want to stop being terrified *right now*. So when you encourage people to concentrate on long-term solutions, it can feel like you're implicitly asking people to just accept living in fear for the next ten years. Understandably, people aren't enthusiastic about that.
That doesn't mean that long-term solutions don't need to be pursued -- just that short-term solutions need to be pursued as well. But as far as long-term solutions go, there's also the question of *what* long-term solutions, because . . .
2. There's also a belief (right or wrong, I dunno) that "emphasis on long-term solutions" has been tried, and never helps. You can read this dynamic going on right now on the newhilleast mailing list, where the main topic of discussion for the last several weeks has been the random (non-robbery-related) violence in the area around 13th and Pennsylvania SE, coming from juveniles commonly thought to be coming from the Potomac Gardens housing project. Suggestions that we need to concentrate more on real solutions to inner-city violence typically have been met with frustrated replies of "we've *been* trying that for a long time." And to be honest, it's hard not to empathize with that perspective. We shovel money into education here -- we spend almost half again as much as the national average per-student; only New Jersey and New York spend more per-student than DC does -- but the state of education in the District never improves. I've lived in a number of major cities (Boston, Chicago, etc.), and none of them had the rec centers and activity programs that D.C. does; but every year, we're told that if we had more, things would improve. I have absolutely no flippin' idea what the answer is; but doing more of what we have been clearly isn't working.
More and longer police presence is the answerin my opinion.
Trinidad is a very small nabe. There are only few ways in and out of the area. I don't see how the police can strategically setup shop in certain areas.
No there is nothing wrong with groups of guys congregating on street corners, but I tell you what- if police presence was there more often than just a three day period due to violence those guys wouldn't feel comfortable standing out there...
The reason we have these problems with nuisance properties is that in DC, you can't evict them and you can't raise their rent. The reason that Virginia really doesn't have these problems is that in VA, it is pretty simple to evict a nuisance tenant. Didn't pay your rent or are dealing drugs? Out you go. Good luck getting them evicted in DC. With the City's rent control laws, there is no incentive to maintain affordable property since you can't raise the rents to cover the repair costs.
I can see why a lot of people move to the suburbs.
So let me get this straight–everytime someone is shot or killed in D.C., everyone assumes it’s all black people involved? Hispanics are the largest ethnic group in the country and according to varies studies, fail to report crimes of all types at a rate nearly twice the rate that they report. Even for violent crimes, the unreported offenses outnumber the reported ones. This distorts the picture of the ethnic makeup of criminals and victims. Maybe I missed something in the articles and reports, but I didn’t see anything that said everyone in these cases were black only.
Oh please Anon. 3:11. Just go on and admit that you know they are all black. I don't know what your race is but you're not fooling anybody. You would be just as shocked as anyone else reading this blog if we found out a blond-haired white woman was shot in our neighborhood and if she were "respectable" every news media in town would be here - maybe even CNN! The reality is most of these thugs are invisible in our society and for the most part are leeches that just don't matter. But even sadder than that harsh statement is the fact that many of them actually believe it themselves, that they don't matter, and until they start valuing themselves and believing in themselves nobody else is really going to give a damn.
With all the time and effort everyone puts in online blogging it would be great if we could get someone to donate high def web cams and put them around the areas of high crime, which we all know where they are. Then we could all watch these cams, figure out who the criminals are and report them to the police. The police cannot do this easily due to the laws and cost but it would be very easy to develop a network of individuals with good vantage points to place these cams. I think companies would definitely help support this especially if it worked and they were able to sell product off of a successful test case.
All this discussion has made me realize that if I don't ask the police to shut down the local crack dealing house, I'm a part of the problem. If we all did this, maybe the crime stats would go down. I have to say, though, there have been few problems (that I've heard about) with the drug dealing house I walk by 2x a day. (Other than traffic and the idling vehicles parked outside.) I don't think any young black males are involved, though. It seems to be an older clientèle there.
But nothing like what we've got now, and, really, have had in DC for as long as any of us can remember.
A change in culture is what's needed.
It's pretty simple, really. We cannot create situations where the prevailing culture in an entire area is one of unemployment, government dole, and the resulting crime and violence.
Breaking up the public housing complexes is a necessary first step. They are an abject failure.
Replace them with mixed used housing. Yes, you can do one to one unit replacement if you choose to build up and used the spaces more efficiently. And if you choose to relocate some people to other parcels (which the DC government has literally by the acre).
Combine that with terrific free child care, and an absolute requirement that parents be employed, participate in mandatory drug and alcohol treatment when needed, and remain crime free.
It can be done. We just don't have the willpower to do it.
And we've got a surprising number of people that are more comfortable with the status quo than they are with actually creating long term solutions to help the very people they are constantly 'championing'.
This isn't specifically a race issue. Or at least it doesn't have to be. There are white communities that have similar drug and poverty problems (although one would argue that since they are often rural the crime problems allowed by anonymity of urban life are not as severe).
Hillman, I have to disagree with you. It is a race problem, at least to those who believe it to be. Unfortunately, I think there are way too many people "in the struggle," who do believe in the supposed racism that it has become an issue to discuss.
I love my city bus stories, so indulge me. On the day of DC's primary, some man came on the bus I was riding home on, sat down for a few minutes, and said, "you Mother F'ers better had voted for Obama today. Ain't no white lady ain't done s*** for y'all," to the agreement of plenty of people on the bus.
Chris,
Today I went to two public pools in the city for the first time. I was shocked and amazed. I've never been so close to anything that cool (and free) in my life. Back home in the Bronx, there's Orchard "Beach", with the quotations emphasized, and Roberto Clemente Park which is awesome, but crowded every day of the year. Both places took me at least an hour to get to. People in DC have absoultely nothing to complain about when it comes to free programs for kids that are local. There's a community center in almost every neighborhood, Free museums aplenty, and culture up the ying yang.
I don't think added police presence is the answer though. The knuckleheads will just move to another neighborhood. I agree with Chris and Hillman: there really needs to be some sort of long term plan to rid this city of its problems. I wish these career politicians that run our city would just grow a pair between them and duke it out long term for solutions
I believe it's a race problem, but not just a “black race” problem as many people on this blog are suggesting. Hispanics are just as impoverished as blacks, they crowd our bus systems speaking spanish–perhaps why you may not be aware of them calling you “Mother F'ers”. I hate that people on this blog are narrow minded and think that only one ethnic group in this city is the source of violence and unsavory activity. It makes me realize the ethnic makeup of the majority of people who write on this blog. It just makes me sick and is borderline racist.
"I hate that people on this blog are narrow minded and think that only one ethnic group in this city is the source of violence and unsavory activity."
What's your evidence that I'm narrow-minded, or think that only one ethnic group in this city is the source of violence and unsavory activity? Please be specific. Thanks in advance.
"I think there are way too many people "in the struggle," who do believe in the supposed racism that it has become an issue to discuss."
You have a valid point.
And I should have been more specific... This doesn't have to be a racially charged matter. We choose to make it so.
What's sortof sad is that some of those that are crying 'racism' the loudest are the ones making things bad for blacks (and others) in DC. If it were white people demanding that this pervasive negative culture be allowed to continue unchecked we'd never hear the end of how we are all racist bastards. But it's not. It's black enablers, 'in the struggle', as you put it.
This is not what Martin Luther King had in mind.
This last sunday CBS Sunday Morning had a very interesting profile on Robert Kennedy. He said basically what I'm saying - that welfare and a culture of doing nothing are highly destructive. And he advocated basically what I'm saying - provide the help needed, but do not enable people to do nothing all day and live in a corrosive cultural situation that we have artificially provided.
I don't know if you've missed this, but this blog is focused around H Street, NE and Trinidad. While there may be a Hispanic presence involved with crime, they don't live and operate in our neighborhoods. From what I can tell there are only a few Hispanics in our neighborhood and very few as you go further into Trinidad. Most of the Hispanics who actually reside in DC do so in Columbia Heights, Adams Morgan, or Petworth. The vast majority of Hispanics live in the suburbs.
the strange thing about dc is there are like ZERO poor white people here. does anyone else find that odd?? you go to virginia and maryland, plenty of poor white folks all over each state. but in dc, nada. sure, there are plenty of non-rich white people sprinkled throughout the city in nearly every neighborhood, but do you know any living near or below the poverty line like many blacks and hispanics? very strange place. easily the most bizarre place i've ever lived in my life.
rob and hillman have good ideas throughout this thread.
would anyone be interested in working together to try to try to craft a program we could present someone progressive and best practices-oriented like tommy wells?
i have absolutely no spare time at the moment, but would be willing to sacrifice sleep to help at this point. i've lived in this city for 15 years. although i have done isolated things like tutoring, etc, i would like to contribute to creating some systematic change here...
heck, for that matter, could i just swipe some of the posts here and email them to t. wells? i actually think some good starting points for program ideas have been posted.
I shudder to think we have something in common, hillman:) I watched that CBS segment too. But look where his beliefs led him... Two parties makes this country so extremist. Either we have welfare or we don't. Public housing, or not. Help the poor, or don't. It really stinks.
"Either we have welfare or we don't. Public housing, or not. Help the poor, or don't. It really stinks."
Those are not the only choices available.
As a society we have a moral duty to help the poor. Especially since we are such a wealthy country.
And we have a self interest as well, from a public safety and cost perspective (it's far more cost effective to properly educate a young man than it is to incarcerate him).
We can have public housing and urban conditions generally that do not create the conditions we see today.
I've never advocated doing away with welfare and public housing.
I'm simply saying there are smart ways to do it, and stupid ways.
I've read these comments. They all sound like a cacophony of theories.
I've reached a point of not caring. Maybe this is short term, who’s to say?
I will do what I can to improve the community. I will call the police. I will talk to kids. I will be a savior and a snitch if that's what's needed, but I am getting out of the business of telling people what they should do.
I really don't care anymore about why people are the way they are. I don't care to argue about theories about why they are the way they are. I am at the F*&K it point.
So I am going to focus on what I need to do to help out, and leave the curing cancer conversations alone. Mindless debate without ground rules or definition helps nobody. We might as well start a fencing club in the ghetto, it would have the same impact.
Hi Soul Searcher, feel free to send my comments to anyone (or better yet edit them for clarity and then send them ;-). But I can't take credit for the idea...I read it somewhere and it had the ring of viability to me. I would love to see a pilot program established to test this approach. Take a thousand randomly chosen low income kids and give them free high-quality daycare, take a thousand randomly selected from the same n'hoods as a control. Every five years, measure if there's any difference. Figure out what the cost to society is of the services they're consuming. Do a cost-benefit analysis. If there's a significant difference after five years, expand it drastically just as they stop giving placebos to the controls in drug studies when e.g. a cancer drug is having clear benefits during a trial.
43 comments:
SIGH
I think the only thing that can be done is to come down hard on even petty crime to keep these losers off the street - that's the only way the surrounding community will be safer. The city owes the law-abiding citizens that much, more than wasting money on social services programs that fail to change behavior most of the time.
As for younger children, perhaps a harder line should be taken in respect to either truancy or parental failure - the earlier these kids are removed from that environment where they pick up bad habits that will follow them forever, the better for everyone. Obviously the parent or grandparents that are raising most of these kids are not getting the job done.
Um, remove the children and place them where? Our foster system isn't exactly perfect, and older kids [and I mean ones who are still pretty little] have a way of not getting adopted.
Lanier says they're pulling out all the stops? Then why can community members point out the houses that sell drugs, while the police just ignore it? I get sick of the constant parade of people buying drugs- especially when the dealer's kids are playing out front.
I think it's more or less universally acknowledged that the "housing project" approach to helping the poor is an utter and abject failure. The results speak for themselves. There are quite a few housing projects in the vicinity of H street (Langston Terrace, Carver Terrace, the project just west of 15th, etc). I think it would be hugely beneficial for the neighborhood, and the inhabitants of those projects, if they were redeveloped along the lines of similar projects around the baseball stadium, or the planned redevelopment of Sursum Corda. As long as those projects exist in their current form (i.e., concentrations of abject poverty), it's hard to see how other proposed solutions will amount to much of anything.
Just fyi-
Last week there were Security Alarm (APX) guys in the nabe. They were/are offering all free equipment and intallation. I think the monthly service fee is 39.99.
Trinidad Home Owner.
Anon said:
But more importantly, I went to Sticky Rice on Saturday night and my cucumber didn't look like Japanese cucumber. Shouldn't there be a month long cucumber course before they open.
Mose said we need to "redevelop housing projects" - Give me a break! You yourself said they don't work and then turn around and said we need to put more money into them. You don't think Sursm Corda or Carva Terrace weren't idealistic and nice new dwelings when they were built and now look at them. People don't appreciate what they don't pay for add that on top of laziness and your "redevelopment" will be the next Susum Corda in 10 years - maybe 20 if we're lucky. I'm really tired of all this mess and moved in blindly optimistic and very green 4 years ago thinking that a gentrified neighborhood with middle class people moving in was going to be a good thing (for both sides). Now I'm about ready to say, "I have a good house in Trinidad that will soon be going Sec. 8 if you know anybody on welfare with 5 children that's interested in renting it - better jump now while the place is still clean. I'm having a very difficult time these days "keeping hope alive" for myself much less hope for others. So I'm moving west across the river and becoming a Republican!
Well, loot at it this way. Summer isn't officially here yet, we have ways to go.
I think I am going to invest in a funeral home, hell even gang bangers get buried, sometimes at government expense.
When I came to work today, I was asked, is that where you live. Once again, I had to say yes.
It's a damn shame.
-Robby
the paper has said a couple of times that the triple murder was the result of a beef that started in a club. anybody have any idea what establishment that was?
No, the paper has said several times that other sources have theorized that the triple-murder probably came out of an argument that might have started in a club. This morning's article, for instance, says ". . .after an argument that might have begun in a nearby nightclub."
If you have something more concrete, saying they definitely did start beefing at a club, please provide a link. Thanks in advance.
Someone commented on an earlier thread here that they witnessed a ruckus outside XII on Saturday night that involved the police, but that's a far jump from saying this is where these muders were inititaded, so I want to be careful about starting gossip here. Saying that, can anyone else elaborate on this rumored ruckus outside XII?
i don't have anything more concrete and i would hope the post would clarify. as you note, they have published several times that 'sources' have speculated there was a beef that could have originated in a club. since they have repeated this theory, these sources are most likely police who are investigating the case.
One of the news reports on Sunday repeated the claim that the triple might have been resulted from a problem at a local club.
The TV report showed a shot of Rose's, but that's by no means a definitive answer to the question of where this might have begun.
Why is there a big deal as to what club a supposed arguement took place?
The question should be surrounding information regarding suspects and are they close to making any arrest. We're talking about 3 lives... Geeze
Trinidad Home Owner
Anonymous 1:09 - It's VERY important to know where this club might be. Clearly you live no where near any club in question. Geeze.
Thanks THO, I was afraid that this was going to spawn into some anti club thing. Lives are lost. Neighborhood confidence, if not shattered, is at least bruised. We need t to come together in Trinidad. There is a walk through with the Mayor that was set up. Although it's during the middle of the day; it would be a great chance for citizens to come together and voice their opinions to the District's chief executive.
If citizens can't make that meeting there are several opportunities to get involved either with their ANCs and or at the PSA Meetings.
Maybe an Orange Hat patrol is needed. Maybe police going door to door providing information about how residents can give tip anonymously would help.
As much as I would love to run away sometimes, this is home and I need to make the most of it.
-Robby
Responding to Anon 8:49's comment: I don't think an all-enforcement approach is going to work, though I'd love to see more enforcement of littering laws, laws against nuisance properties, and of course any criminal statutes.
So then, what would work? The councilman bemoaned the culture of violence. I heard a proposal a while back that would probably yield a decent return on the buck: High-quality, free child-care for low-income children.
I think this would have two major benefits: 1. It would free up mothers or whoever is caring for small children--those who want to work--to go out and work or get training w/out worrying about who would take care of the kids. 2. it would take the kids out of the environment that instills the culture of violence in them for many hours of the day...exposing them to a different way of living.
It would be a huge expense, yes. But what is the alternative? Success and failure for individuals, cities, and nations in this century is going to be determined by how well human capital is developed.
If you look at human capital in DC like you would regular capital, today's approach is basically like taking 1/3 of your assets and just throwing them out the window, instead of trying to develop them so that they can yield a return. It's worse, actually, because the city gets a negative return thanks to all the services that have to be provided for these people who are abandoned early in life.
As Inked pointed out, pulling all these children out of their families by force isn't going to solve the problem. Law enforcement isn't going to solve it--it may solve "our" problem to an extent--but it's not going to solve "the" problem. The only way to change the culture would be to offer an economic incentive for parents to bring their kids to a safe place where they can learn a different way of life. It would be a huge investment but I think it would yield even bigger returns.
Redevelopment (as in razing and rebuilding) those pubic housing areas might be OK, but the problem is the type of people that live in low-income housing - there are a lot of decent folks, but there is still a way higher-than-average percentage of people that are just trash, and unfortunately the lowest common denominator rules in big properties like that.
However, there is a way to address problem residents - eviction. Unfortunately, DC's rental laws make this very difficult and very expensive to the owners. If landlords had an easier time booting problem residents, or even people who aren't problems themselves but have kids or guests who are, you'd see some of these communities improve fairly rapidly.
such harsh and cruel comments, even for you gentrifying types. these past couple of weeks have truly been tragic and horrifyingly depressing. you would think we're in baghdad with these kinds of numbers. its scary, and not for the reasons i've heard thus far. there is so much wealth in this city it's crazy - yet young black men are so marginalized and segregated in impoverished neighborhoods that we only seem to recognize them when something like this happens.
yeah, i know, personal responsibility is definitely an issue but its time to start looking at the larger powers at work here (political, social, and economic disenfranchisement; lack of sustainable, blue collar jobs; lack of resources and opportunities to higher education / or vocational training).
From a psychological perspective, the "beef" in all of these incidents fundamentally has nothing to do with craps games, club brawls, or parking spots..and everything to do with malice, self hate, and brainwash.
From a sociological perspective, the elements underlying all of this madness are so complex and intertwined that attempting to reform one will only exacerbate the severity of another. Some of these kids haven't had even the most remote exposure to the principles of right/wrong.
When we had Marion Barry there were loads of make-work jobs around and black folks controlled all the levers of local government (and still basically does) - and did that do anything at all for these 'disenfranchised' young men? Of course not, because that's not the real problem...even if there were more blue-collar jobs around, most of these yahoos aren't even qualified for those. It's simple - get yourself through high school, don't get knocked up or knock anybody else up, stay out of trouble with the law and you have a pretty good chance of having a middle-class life. Unfortunately, we have far too many people in this town that fail on multiple counts above, and they and their children suffer accordingly, as does the community that has to support them.
I've lived in three major US cities in my life, and DC takes the cake as far as the victim/"I need the government to take care of me" mentality goes. If you pin all your troubles on external forces and at the same time expect some external force to come riding to the rescue, you'll go absolutely nowhere. I can't think of a single historical example of some ethnic minority in any country became equal with the majority by sitting around and waiting for some government Santa to make everything right.
The people that succeed in life are those that work at it, and that's true across any racial line.
Anon 1:52 -- I think there are a couple of reasons why people are not very willing to look at deeper, root causes and long-term solutions:
1. Long-term solutions are just that: long-term. People want to debate and decide upon and pursue ideas that will improve things in the short-term. The promise of eventually feeling safe in your neighborhood in ten years, maybe, isn't enough; people want to stop being terrified *right now*. So when you encourage people to concentrate on long-term solutions, it can feel like you're implicitly asking people to just accept living in fear for the next ten years. Understandably, people aren't enthusiastic about that.
That doesn't mean that long-term solutions don't need to be pursued -- just that short-term solutions need to be pursued as well. But as far as long-term solutions go, there's also the question of *what* long-term solutions, because . . .
2. There's also a belief (right or wrong, I dunno) that "emphasis on long-term solutions" has been tried, and never helps. You can read this dynamic going on right now on the newhilleast mailing list, where the main topic of discussion for the last several weeks has been the random (non-robbery-related) violence in the area around 13th and Pennsylvania SE, coming from juveniles commonly thought to be coming from the Potomac Gardens housing project. Suggestions that we need to concentrate more on real solutions to inner-city violence typically have been met with frustrated replies of "we've *been* trying that for a long time." And to be honest, it's hard not to empathize with that perspective. We shovel money into education here -- we spend almost half again as much as the national average per-student; only New Jersey and New York spend more per-student than DC does -- but the state of education in the District never improves. I've lived in a number of major cities (Boston, Chicago, etc.), and none of them had the rec centers and activity programs that D.C. does; but every year, we're told that if we had more, things would improve. I have absolutely no flippin' idea what the answer is; but doing more of what we have been clearly isn't working.
More and longer police presence is the answerin my opinion.
Trinidad is a very small nabe. There are only few ways in and out of the area. I don't see how the police can strategically setup shop in certain areas.
No there is nothing wrong with groups of guys congregating on street corners, but I tell you what- if police presence was there more often than just a three day period due to violence those guys wouldn't feel comfortable standing out there...
Trinidad Home Owner
The reason we have these problems with nuisance properties is that in DC, you can't evict them and you can't raise their rent. The reason that Virginia really doesn't have these problems is that in VA, it is pretty simple to evict a nuisance tenant. Didn't pay your rent or are dealing drugs? Out you go. Good luck getting them evicted in DC. With the City's rent control laws, there is no incentive to maintain affordable property since you can't raise the rents to cover the repair costs.
I can see why a lot of people move to the suburbs.
Anon 1:52
So let me get this straight–everytime someone is shot or killed in D.C., everyone assumes it’s all black people involved? Hispanics are the largest ethnic group in the country and according to varies studies, fail to report crimes of all types at a rate nearly twice the rate that they report. Even for violent crimes, the unreported offenses outnumber the reported ones. This distorts the picture of the ethnic makeup of criminals and victims. Maybe I missed something in the articles and reports, but I didn’t see anything that said everyone in these cases were black only.
Oh please Anon. 3:11. Just go on and admit that you know they are all black. I don't know what your race is but you're not fooling anybody. You would be just as shocked as anyone else reading this blog if we found out a blond-haired white woman was shot in our neighborhood and if she were "respectable" every news media in town would be here - maybe even CNN! The reality is most of these thugs are invisible in our society and for the most part are leeches that just don't matter. But even sadder than that harsh statement is the fact that many of them actually believe it themselves, that they don't matter, and until they start valuing themselves and believing in themselves nobody else is really going to give a damn.
With all the time and effort everyone puts in online blogging it would be great if we could get someone to donate high def web cams and put them around the areas of high crime, which we all know where they are. Then we could all watch these cams, figure out who the criminals are and report them to the police. The police cannot do this easily due to the laws and cost but it would be very easy to develop a network of individuals with good vantage points to place these cams. I think companies would definitely help support this especially if it worked and they were able to sell product off of a successful test case.
All this discussion has made me realize that if I don't ask the police to shut down the local crack dealing house, I'm a part of the problem. If we all did this, maybe the crime stats would go down. I have to say, though, there have been few problems (that I've heard about) with the drug dealing house I walk by 2x a day. (Other than traffic and the idling vehicles parked outside.) I don't think any young black males are involved, though. It seems to be an older clientèle there.
Yes, with poverty comes some crime.
But nothing like what we've got now, and, really, have had in DC for as long as any of us can remember.
A change in culture is what's needed.
It's pretty simple, really. We cannot create situations where the prevailing culture in an entire area is one of unemployment, government dole, and the resulting crime and violence.
Breaking up the public housing complexes is a necessary first step. They are an abject failure.
Replace them with mixed used housing. Yes, you can do one to one unit replacement if you choose to build up and used the spaces more efficiently. And if you choose to relocate some people to other parcels (which the DC government has literally by the acre).
Combine that with terrific free child care, and an absolute requirement that parents be employed, participate in mandatory drug and alcohol treatment when needed, and remain crime free.
It can be done. We just don't have the willpower to do it.
And we've got a surprising number of people that are more comfortable with the status quo than they are with actually creating long term solutions to help the very people they are constantly 'championing'.
This isn't specifically a race issue. Or at least it doesn't have to be. There are white communities that have similar drug and poverty problems (although one would argue that since they are often rural the crime problems allowed by anonymity of urban life are not as severe).
But in DC we do make it racial, unnecessarily.
It's a culture problem, not a race problem.
And it can be solved, to a large extent.
Hillman, I have to disagree with you. It is a race problem, at least to those who believe it to be. Unfortunately, I think there are way too many people "in the struggle," who do believe in the supposed racism that it has become an issue to discuss.
I love my city bus stories, so indulge me. On the day of DC's primary, some man came on the bus I was riding home on, sat down for a few minutes, and said, "you Mother F'ers better had voted for Obama today. Ain't no white lady ain't done s*** for y'all," to the agreement of plenty of people on the bus.
Chris,
Today I went to two public pools in the city for the first time. I was shocked and amazed. I've never been so close to anything that cool (and free) in my life. Back home in the Bronx, there's Orchard "Beach", with the quotations emphasized, and Roberto Clemente Park which is awesome, but crowded every day of the year. Both places took me at least an hour to get to. People in DC have absoultely nothing to complain about when it comes to free programs for kids that are local. There's a community center in almost every neighborhood, Free museums aplenty, and culture up the ying yang.
I don't think added police presence is the answer though. The knuckleheads will just move to another neighborhood. I agree with Chris and Hillman: there really needs to be some sort of long term plan to rid this city of its problems. I wish these career politicians that run our city would just grow a pair between them and duke it out long term for solutions
Just to clarify, I'm Anon 3:11:00 PM.
I believe it's a race problem, but not just a “black race” problem as many people on this blog are suggesting. Hispanics are just as impoverished as blacks, they crowd our bus systems speaking spanish–perhaps why you may not be aware of them calling you “Mother F'ers”. I hate that people on this blog are narrow minded and think that only one ethnic group in this city is the source of violence and unsavory activity. It makes me realize the ethnic makeup of the majority of people who write on this blog. It just makes me sick and is borderline racist.
"I hate that people on this blog are narrow minded and think that only one ethnic group in this city is the source of violence and unsavory activity."
What's your evidence that I'm narrow-minded, or think that only one ethnic group in this city is the source of violence and unsavory activity? Please be specific. Thanks in advance.
"I think there are way too many people "in the struggle," who do believe in the supposed racism that it has become an issue to discuss."
You have a valid point.
And I should have been more specific... This doesn't have to be a racially charged matter. We choose to make it so.
What's sortof sad is that some of those that are crying 'racism' the loudest are the ones making things bad for blacks (and others) in DC. If it were white people demanding that this pervasive negative culture be allowed to continue unchecked we'd never hear the end of how we are all racist bastards. But it's not. It's black enablers, 'in the struggle', as you put it.
This is not what Martin Luther King had in mind.
This last sunday CBS Sunday Morning had a very interesting profile on Robert Kennedy. He said basically what I'm saying - that welfare and a culture of doing nothing are highly destructive. And he advocated basically what I'm saying - provide the help needed, but do not enable people to do nothing all day and live in a corrosive cultural situation that we have artificially provided.
Anon 3:11:00 PM & 7:06:00 AM.
I don't know if you've missed this, but this blog is focused around H Street, NE and Trinidad. While there may be a Hispanic presence involved with crime, they don't live and operate in our neighborhoods. From what I can tell there are only a few Hispanics in our neighborhood and very few as you go further into Trinidad. Most of the Hispanics who actually reside in DC do so in Columbia Heights, Adams Morgan, or Petworth. The vast majority of Hispanics live in the suburbs.
the strange thing about dc is there are like ZERO poor white people here. does anyone else find that odd?? you go to virginia and maryland, plenty of poor white folks all over each state. but in dc, nada. sure, there are plenty of non-rich white people sprinkled throughout the city in nearly every neighborhood, but do you know any living near or below the poverty line like many blacks and hispanics? very strange place. easily the most bizarre place i've ever lived in my life.
rob and hillman have good ideas throughout this thread.
would anyone be interested in working together to try to try to craft a program we could present someone progressive and best practices-oriented like tommy wells?
i have absolutely no spare time at the moment, but would be willing to sacrifice sleep to help at this point. i've lived in this city for 15 years. although i have done isolated things like tutoring, etc, i would like to contribute to creating some systematic change here...
heck, for that matter, could i just swipe some of the posts here and email them to t. wells? i actually think some good starting points for program ideas have been posted.
I shudder to think we have something in common, hillman:) I watched that CBS segment too. But look where his beliefs led him... Two parties makes this country so extremist. Either we have welfare or we don't. Public housing, or not. Help the poor, or don't. It really stinks.
"Either we have welfare or we don't. Public housing, or not. Help the poor, or don't. It really stinks."
Those are not the only choices available.
As a society we have a moral duty to help the poor. Especially since we are such a wealthy country.
And we have a self interest as well, from a public safety and cost perspective (it's far more cost effective to properly educate a young man than it is to incarcerate him).
We can have public housing and urban conditions generally that do not create the conditions we see today.
I've never advocated doing away with welfare and public housing.
I'm simply saying there are smart ways to do it, and stupid ways.
Currently we are doing it the stupid way.
I've read these comments. They all sound like a cacophony of theories.
I've reached a point of not caring. Maybe this is short term, who’s to say?
I will do what I can to improve the community. I will call the police. I will talk to kids. I will be a savior and a snitch if that's what's needed, but I am getting out of the business of telling people what they should do.
I really don't care anymore about why people are the way they are. I don't care to argue about theories about why they are the way they are. I am at the F*&K it point.
So I am going to focus on what I need to do to help out, and leave the curing cancer conversations alone. Mindless debate without ground rules or definition helps nobody. We might as well start a fencing club in the ghetto, it would have the same impact.
-Robby
Hi Soul Searcher, feel free to send my comments to anyone (or better yet edit them for clarity and then send them ;-). But I can't take credit for the idea...I read it somewhere and it had the ring of viability to me.
I would love to see a pilot program established to test this approach. Take a thousand randomly chosen low income kids and give them free high-quality daycare, take a thousand randomly selected from the same n'hoods as a control. Every five years, measure if there's any difference. Figure out what the cost to society is of the services they're consuming. Do a cost-benefit analysis. If there's a significant difference after five years, expand it drastically just as they stop giving placebos to the controls in drug studies when e.g. a cancer drug is having clear benefits during a trial.
Life time public assistance - 200,000
Life time incarceration - 1,000,000
Police shooting a person for trying to stab the officer - Priceless
Anon 1:07
If it helps, yesterday I saw 2 white men that appeared to be homeless sitting under the brige near the Greyhound bus station.
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